Welcome to the Age of Sigmar

The place for all game discussions on Age of Sigmar.

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Jolemai
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Re: Welcome to the Age of Sigmar

Post by Jolemai »

I have absolutely no idea what I've just read.
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Re: Welcome to the Age of Sigmar

Post by Rork »

Setomidor wrote:I personally think that these rules and scrolls are just placeholders, and I'm sincerely hoping for a more serious game to be released in the coming few weeks (probably in the form of an "expansion"). These rather unspecific rules are great for playing around with the new mechanics, while waiting for the "real" release. Will probably look at a few YouTube reviews of AoS the coming days and then just wait for something more.


I don't see them as placeholders, I see them as a pacifier to those of us with existing collections. We aren't going to see any more High or Dark Elves, just whatever GW now defines an "Aelf" to be. New releases aren't likely to follow the old aesthetic and we'll probably see that over time that the existing models become available on their online store only.

The consistent message out there from retailers and the like is that "This is it."

If a "Proper" 9th ed is coming, GW have again screwed themselves by keeping it secret.

Either way, this is a PR disaster for GW with its existing fanbase. "Little Jimmy" might like it, but he's going to find GW stores even emptier than normal.
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Re: Welcome to the Age of Sigmar

Post by Daeron »

I think the silence has more to do with the excitement, and the heat wave that put everyone on passive mode. Additionally.. Well... I remember the first time I looked into Warhammer and even just reading the basics and 1 army book was a lot to digest. The new book may have only 4 pages, but I find it difficult to get a measure of the performance of our troops. I'll be working on a new combat calculator... It should be simpler than before so we should have numbers on our troops quickly (gimme 2-3 weeks).
The "funny" rules kind of remind me of Munchkin. Admitted, it looks a bit out of place... but if I were a rule writer, I'd be making such rules as well :D

Anyhow.. I'm off to the store to get a copy and order. I still see a lot of potential in the game, but it's clear it's no longer Warhammer as we knew it. It might be a great game, but I'm not throwing away my old rulebook yet :)
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Re: Welcome to the Age of Sigmar

Post by Jolemai »

It's a shame that they have killed off quite a few options across each Warscroll...
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Re: Welcome to the Age of Sigmar

Post by Makiwara »

Yeah, I'm digesting at the moment for sure. There's lots of potential here, lot's of possibilities. I like the synergies you can get, I like the formation rules but at the same time it's obvious there are some giant holes in what we know, what we've got so far... It's one of those interesting times things, I dunno.

On the plus side there's rules for Orion again, so I might use a skaven Eshin Verminlord to make a sneaky Loec themed Orion. Time will tell. Also we get hunting hounds, yay!
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Re: Welcome to the Age of Sigmar

Post by Calisson »

Waiting for a real analysis, that I regret not to have much time to do myself (tourism with son ongoing, then important meetings next week).

Remember 8th edition, it was impossible to analyse how good are the rules from BRB without taking into account the AB.
In AoS, I don't see how people can make a judgement of the 4p rule without taking into account the scrolls... and that's a lot to digest, finally. Did anyone note that there is also a scroll for terrain? This adds tactical possibilities.

At first glance, I think I am going to appreciate a lot the ability to play with casual gamers who need no longer to swallow more than 100 page of rule.

Give it two weeks, and people will get few basic tactics, such as realizing that compact units, 8th ed style, are more efficient on battlefield than lose formations, or such as the power of combo-charges.
People will have listed many OP armies, but those can always be countered by more OP armies and let the best win. Hey, that was true in 8th too!
There might be subtle balance as well, such as the fact that heroes affect a limited area, so larger armies need more heroes. There must be an ideal % of hero to keep if one wants the most OP army. If someone has found an ideal combo, he might wish to keep his force relatively small because of sudden death victories.
There are tactical research to do about how to protect the heroes, who cannot hide inside a unit. Sure, you can sandwich them between two units, but then the battle might reshuffle these units.
Will see.
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Re: Welcome to the Age of Sigmar

Post by Lord hajjij »

Compared to many factions, the dark elves suck. Just go look at undead.
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Re: Welcome to the Age of Sigmar

Post by Daeron »

There is most definitely a lack of a balance framework. Right now, the balance is worked out per model. In theory, it's possible to field 10 Malekiths on a Dragon and claim your list is "smaller" than a single unit of 20 Darkshards. So there has to be an additional balancing factor. I think they didn't bother with it yet because they want everyone to focus on the starter set and, heavens forbid, maybe throw in an equivalent army of the previous edition.

Then there's additional oddities, like being able to shoot while in combat. Granted your line of sight options are limited but it's a bit weird. I am expecting more to come, but it's good enough for me to get started by testing the new game engine.
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Re: Welcome to the Age of Sigmar

Post by Lord hajjij »

Yeah, but that's not really what I'm saying. Skelton warriors hit/wound on 4+/4+ and Corsairs 5+/4+.

Nuff said.
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Re: Welcome to the Age of Sigmar

Post by Calisson »

Daeron wrote:In theory, it's possible to field 10 Malekiths on a Dragon and claim your list is "smaller" than a single unit of 20 Darkshards.
So what? In 8th ed too, it is possible to field a well thought OP army against a weak fluffy army.
In AoS, if I lose today against your 10 Malekith, next time I come with 13 steam tanks and see how it goes. Then next time you bring 17 Nagash.
I would not be surprised to see a 3.01 square feet table reserved for powermongers in clubs. See who got the most powerful combo!
The best combos will soon be known.
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Re: Welcome to the Age of Sigmar

Post by Calisson »

Lord hajjij wrote:Yeah, but that's not really what I'm saying. Skelton warriors hit/wound on 4+/4+ and Corsairs 5+/4+.
Too quick a reading.

5+/4+ is for RHB, 2 shots, associated with 4+/5+ blades in melee.
AHW corsairs have no shooting but have two melee attacks, 4+/5+ and 4+/4+.

Skellies have no shooting, and only one attack (unless they are legion).
Skellies' blades are 4+/4+ at 1", while the spears are 5+/4+ but at 2" so more skellies can fight.

Finally corsairs have 5+ save, skellies only 6+.

Overall, there's quite a complex comparison to make, where the alleged bad balance is not so obvious.
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Re: Welcome to the Age of Sigmar

Post by Karond »

Just can't believe there's no balancing mechanism. Also doesn't seem to make sense to have new sigmar armies and old world armies.
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Re: Welcome to the Age of Sigmar

Post by cultofkhaine »

Also doesn't seem to make sense to have new sigmar armies and old world armies.


I find this thing the weirdest of all - fluff wise this just does not work. Our old armies in this new world.

It would have been better if they had taken the whole miniature range and renamed the units / given them completely different unit names.

The old and the new just does not work.
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Re: Welcome to the Age of Sigmar

Post by Lord hajjij »

Calisson wrote:Overall, there's quite a complex comparison to make, where the alleged bad balance is not so obvious.


Except the "flavor" and "style" of elves is now shot. Drawing me to the army was the fact they were weapon experts, fast with little toughness. The loss of Ini was huge for us. The loss of the to hit/wound charts was huge for us. Now we're stuck basically having no distinct advantages at all.

Edit: maybe a distinct "style" for us could have been great shooting. NOPE. Our shooting sucks, and even our RBT can't single shot anymore where High Elves can.

Go read thru our rules. They are absolute SH**. There is no uniqueness. For example, Cold One Knights are just straight up BLAND. Go take a look at some of the rules for other Cavalry in the game (say, Cold One Riders from Lizardmen) and tell me you aren't disappointed.

I'm sorry. I was optimistic about the game, and still excited about it, but our rules are sh**. It's basically like they were 2 days before release and were like "oh crap ,we forgot Dark Elves..."
Last edited by Lord hajjij on Sat Jul 04, 2015 3:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Welcome to the Age of Sigmar

Post by Coop »

Cultofkhaine wrote:It's very quite on the boards today I thought there would be a lot more chatter about the new release, instead it is deathly quite.

My brief read of the new rules and war scrolls has left me rather disappointed and confused.

Is this new game of warhammer in the same world as the old one or a completely new one? I gather it's a new realm - but it does not make sense having units with the same name / back story inhabiting it.

To me it's just one big mish mash of old and new fluff - I don't see how the new world can inherit the old history or is this just the same world, just a hundred years on? All very confusing.

GW would have been better off drawing a line in the sand and saying this is the old game and now here is the new / with totally new armies still to come....

I'm really annoyed that I have amassed this huge army over the years and can now not field it. It feels to me like the GFC just hit and the value of my models have been wiped off the board / they are no longer worth what I paid for them.


You pretty much have captured my sentiments. I just painted 3000 points of dark elves this past year and am now wondering if I should have been painting 2000 points of space marines. The book says 100 models per side is the game will take all evening. 100 models is 2400 points of 8th edition, which is 2-3 hours of play.

My biggest problem with these new rules is that there is so little customizability. You customize your army with what units you take, but you no longer customize the units. 8th edition lost a ton of magic banners, magic items, and other ways to make models unique. Now it seems like there are no ways to do it. Where are the magic items? The hexing scroll or the war banner or other trickster's shard?

Magic has been punched in the face. Now there are 2 spells and wizards might know a 3rd unique one. What strategy goes into the magic phase? You roll 2 dice and hope you get the roll. You can't budget your dice. And your opponent has to roll the same 2 dice and hope they beat you!

Movement has been dramatically changed. No more line of sight templates or setting up complex ways to chaff your opponent.

With all of this, I'm not trying to say AoS is going to be terrible or not fun. What I'm saying is that I played 8th edition fantasy because it required a lot of thought and strategy. Building lists was so much fun, trying to get the best army on the table and manage your points. It seems like we traded in a ton of customizability and lost a lot of complexity and strategy in the game for..... what?
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Lord hajjij
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Re: Welcome to the Age of Sigmar

Post by Lord hajjij »

Coop wrote:You pretty much have captured my sentiments. I just painted 3000 points of dark elves this past year and am now wondering if I should have been painting 2000 points of space marines. The book says 100 models per side is the game will take all evening. 100 models is 2400 points of 8th edition, which is 2-3 hours of play.

My biggest problem with these new rules is that there is so little customizability. You customize your army with what units you take, but you no longer customize the units. 8th edition lost a ton of magic banners, magic items, and other ways to make models unique. Now it seems like there are no ways to do it. Where are the magic items? The hexing scroll or the war banner or other trickster's shard?

Magic has been punched in the face. Now there are 2 spells and wizards might know a 3rd unique one. What strategy goes into the magic phase? You roll 2 dice and hope you get the roll. You can't budget your dice. And your opponent has to roll the same 2 dice and hope they beat you!

Movement has been dramatically changed. No more line of sight templates or setting up complex ways to chaff your opponent.

With all of this, I'm not trying to say AoS is going to be terrible or not fun. What I'm saying is that I played 8th edition fantasy because it required a lot of thought and strategy. Building lists was so much fun, trying to get the best army on the table and manage your points. It seems like we traded in a ton of customizability and lost a lot of complexity and strategy in the game for..... what?


Couldn't agree more. I'm going to be switching to either O&G or Undead for this game. I couldn't be anymore disappointed in the rules for Druchii.
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Re: Welcome to the Age of Sigmar

Post by toots »

Lol my mate told me some funny things about spelling the name of a spell backwards for +2 to cast and maintaining eye contact when attacking with a Medusa?? Tell me I'm wrong. Tell me he's lying!! I'm out if so!! Thankyou and good night!!
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Re: Welcome to the Age of Sigmar

Post by Rork »

toots wrote:Lol my mate told me some funny things about spelling the name of a spell backwards for +2 to cast and maintaining eye contact when attacking with a Medusa?? Tell me I'm wrong. Tell me he's lying!! I'm out if so!! Thankyou and good night!!


That's true. The spell thing is for Kairos, I believe.
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Re: Welcome to the Age of Sigmar

Post by toots »

Yeah he said kairos. perhaps it's actually quite fun to do and maybe even has an educational element(!) for the kids but... jesus wept :(
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Re: Welcome to the Age of Sigmar

Post by Daeron »

Rork wrote:The consistent message out there from retailers and the like is that "This is it."

I agree that "this is it" in the sense that "this is the new game". Old Warhammer won't be coming back soon. This is the new game engine.
But there are also hints in the texts from the game and the white dwarf that there will be plenty more to come, even books. So it wouldn't be unreasonable to believe there will be a rules expansion in there at some point.

IMO... These scrolls are (not so strictly) a transitional thing for the new armies to be launched with a book, a story, new rules and maybe a few iconic models. I also noticed the battle scrolls absent from the site are those from the armies in the starter box.

So, there is a lot of uncertainty about the future. I think there's more to come. One rumour mentioned no 40K releases until Tau in autumn (October?), which means a whole lot of Fantasy until then. I'm not sure if they'll wait -that- long but this certainly is one of the biggest launched from G.W. in a long time. Either way they have invested a lot in this, and I think it's clear it won't stop at a starter box. For better or worse, we haven't seen all of Age of Sigmar yet.

I'll try some games with a friend tomorrow and see how it goes. We played 8th ed 2 weeks ago and we may try a rematch in AoS with the same list, if time is kind enough. It should give an interesting contrast :)
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Re: Welcome to the Age of Sigmar

Post by Amboadine »

Im hoping for a book launch to describe the new background. I have no real interest in buying the box for the models and have the rules already. I just want some background.

As for the game itself. I will be giving it a few games again like Daeron using armies from 8th as a base.
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Re: Welcome to the Age of Sigmar

Post by Daeron »

There is a book: http://www.games-workshop.com/en-BE/Age ... es-Of-Azyr
And there will be an AoS book inside the box as well.

Not sure if either contains what you hope for. I ordered both, so I can tell you in a couple of weeks.
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Re: Welcome to the Age of Sigmar

Post by Lord Drakon »

I am pretty sure there is more to come. As this was all free, the interesting stuff, the stuff we have (and are willing) to pay for will follow the next coming months I expect. Changing 30 years of warhammer needs little steps, which are huge for us, but just little parts of the progress for them (like End Times).

For the moment lets analyze the new rules / warscrolls we are given, lets come up with our own ideas how best fix the current vacuum of balance and list building and work on D.R.A.I.C.H Age of Sigmar material. Even while our rules might suck and we are under-powered instead of over-powered again, our Druchii mindset should still allow us to still kick ass as soon we realized our tactical possibilities with the new rules. After all, Druchii.net has been the centre of tactical and strategical brilliance for a long time (for example invention of MSU).

Personally I really like that the Sisters of Slaughter now come in unit of 5 ! :D Maybe our Assassins kick ass again instead of masters, maybe the Fleetmaster can actually do something etc. Yes I expect the current power builds to be broken down, but this give space for other builds.
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Re: Welcome to the Age of Sigmar

Post by Cicciuz »

I also think there is more to come.
this really lack a lot of things and a lot of info.
to be sincere this version looks like written for dumb people, or someone who has never played Warhammer before. Super simple rules, very few customisations.
i think this is a new starter game to attract newbies to the game.
remember that at GW everything is very expensive, these free rules look very strange.
When i started in 4th-5th edition, they were given colour for free, in order to attract people to the game. I think this is a similar tentative.

The new complete rulebook will come out soon.
Or at least i hope so :)
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Re: Welcome to the Age of Sigmar

Post by Underway »

Back when 3rd edition came out they did a similar thing with the armies. Cobbled together rules so your current crop of miniatures could work. In those ancient days dark elves had heavy cavalry and cold ones. No corsairs, black guard or executioners. Essentially our army was crossbows, witch elves, heavy can and cold ones.

Also remember that the lord of the rings game evolved from a skirmish to a battle game over time. I expect rules to come out to expand upon this game somewhat. For now I'm just glad my tomb kings are pretty cool, and fascinated that lizard are considered
daemons.

I don't expect this game to be popular with the competitive crowd that normally works the forums. We'll see over time but this went int the exact opposite way that those guys wanted, and drove down to the beer and basement crowd. Minis are still spectacular though....
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