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Prices of models and hobby 
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Executioner

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Thread separated from Un-Welcome to the Age of Sigmar
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Calisson


The trend seen in our Witch Elves box has continued to Stormcast Eternals. One huge un-welcome to those prices!


Tue Jul 21, 2015 3:33 pm
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Yeah, the price point is really offputting. For that price I can buy a full Dark Ages warband for Saga.

That game also has functional rules :)

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Tue Jul 21, 2015 4:44 pm
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And good news! GW has released another £45 book for AoS. I couldn't keep up with the £30 releases :o_O:

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Sat Aug 08, 2015 4:19 pm
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Rork wrote:
And good news! GW has released another £45 book for AoS. I couldn't keep up with the £30 releases :o_O:


Indeed. Giving this one a miss I think, I am simply not willing to have to buy a new book at that price each month to keep up.

However....

We really need to help Sigmar find his hammer. Silly Sigmar misplacing it so, as bad as me and my keys.

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Sat Aug 08, 2015 4:52 pm
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75 dollar book stateside. This is absurd. 75 DOLLARS!!!!! My butt still hurts from the endtimes books!!!!!!!!
Now I truly understand how they plan to have AoS succeed.

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Sun Aug 09, 2015 6:52 am
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"Free rules" :lol: :lol: :lol:

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Sun Aug 09, 2015 9:57 am
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They want 33$ US dollars for 2 censer bearers, see here:
http://www.games-workshop.com/en-US/Pestilens-Plague-Censer-Bearers

I wonder just how expensive they think they can make their stuff.


Sun Aug 09, 2015 3:05 pm
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that's outrageous! The cost of mini's will pass the cot of gold shortly.

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Sun Aug 09, 2015 11:32 pm
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Bit the stuff out. Seriously. I plan to never buy directly at those prices. At Gencon, I was able to find a box set of AoS for less than $90 (and went half with my wife on it). I was also able to pick up, from a couple different second-hand stores, a box of Skullcrushers, a box of Executioners, and a Stegodon for less than 1/2 price. New, sealed, still on sprue. I also got a Chimera for the low price of absolutely nothing. Online bits shops (and ebay) are your friends. If you have the will to do it, this game is actually cheaper than most other games out there.

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Mon Aug 10, 2015 2:47 am
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33 for two bearers... lololololololololololololol
I'm glad the internet exists. I needed somewhere to vent the rage.

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Mon Aug 10, 2015 7:31 am
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Jvh792 wrote:
33 for two bearers... lololololololololololololol
I'm glad the internet exists. I needed somewhere to vent the rage.


And to get the models you want at affordable, non-crazy prices...

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Mon Aug 10, 2015 2:30 pm
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Vulcrist wrote:
Bit the stuff out. Seriously. I plan to never buy directly at those prices. At Gencon, I was able to find a box set of AoS for less than $90 (and went half with my wife on it). I was also able to pick up, from a couple different second-hand stores, a box of Skullcrushers, a box of Executioners, and a Stegodon for less than 1/2 price. New, sealed, still on sprue. I also got a Chimera for the low price of absolutely nothing. Online bits shops (and ebay) are your friends. If you have the will to do it, this game is actually cheaper than most other games out there.


I agree that from an individual's perspective that is a good way to keep the cost down. However, I'm pretty sure this contributed to the game dying. I only bought corsairs (3 boxes) and cold one knights (2 boxes) from a local game store because witch elves/executioners/and so on were just way too expensive. I turned to ebay for most of the rest, and that doesn't really encourage a local game store (to carry GW stuff) and it doesn't help GW bottom line (which they care about).


Mon Aug 10, 2015 3:40 pm
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I don't recall the hobby ever being cheap really. I always struggled to get an army together because of the price. In fact, the only time I really jumped ahead in expansion was after putting a lot of money on the side for a year by the time new Elves were released. And then by buying out the stock of 2 shops that went out of business.
And after the models, there's still the paint, the brushes, the terrain etc etc.

I remember buying 3 boxes of spears at the start of the 6th ed release. It was the only unit I could afford in large enough numbers. Only to make 2 units with it. And they were god awful (average number of kills on the charge: 0.6. Yeah. That's an elite army alright.)

*shrug* It is what it is. I know it stings, but heck. There's other hobbies I'd love to do, but they have easily ten times the price tag and limiting your budget is a necessity. I always wanted that robotized lawnmower too.

AoS seems to have a much lower barrier of entry. Buy half the starter box and you have a small, workable army. Or buy a box and trade one side of the minis for a good sized army. Heck. The Guardians of the Deepwood are a complete army bow. For 185 euros. I don't recall ever seeing WFB armies at that price.
The price per model has gone up, sure. The price for Retributors and Liberators certainly stops me from collecting Stormcast Eternals with those boxes alone, even more so since they aren't my primary interest. I wouldn't want to collect an army at that price. But would I be willing to enrich an already existing army with such a box? Hmm, maybe I would.

I do want to collect the Goretide, to an extent. The Bloodreavers come at a more acceptable price. 20 for 46. Still the incentive to buy them is low but there I blame the starter box again ;)
For 46 euros, perhaps a bit more, I could buy the Khorne side of the starter box and have many more models. Admitted, fewer options and bla bla, but it works :)

As for the campaign books. Well.. I called it a while back so I'm not surprised at all. This is the new model. They'll launch a campaign, make it a single, or a few books. They'll make it the buzz of the quarter, have all stores display matching terrain, logos and events. When the campaign is done and over, they'll push all that to the side and start over with a new campaign, marketting included. So you're paying for content now. WFB didn't offer much content :S
The "omg rich detailed world" was all in reading books and the few pages of lore in the army books that repeated themselves.
Still, all that doesn't make the price tag any easier for me. At 60 euros per book I think I'll wait a while to see how badly I need it and don't jump on it because "shiny".

Anyhow. The way I fix the budget issue is simply by choosing a budget per month that I'm willing to pay on my hobby. Then that's my budget... And some months I spend it, and some months I save it for something more. It really helps me to rationalize the price of things. Instead of wanting a big army and getting teary eyes at the price, I look at what the hobby is worth to me and choose options within those confines. In a strange way it encourages me to build and paint. Buy a box -> build it, paint it -> buy a new one.
I find AoS notably easier as it offers way more options there... WFB always required a big budget to get started on a new army. Even at 50% discount. Not to mention the countless minis you had to paint with sub par performance because ... well.. core.

The barrier of entry is much more to my liking now, almost dangerously so. That said, though, I do like blocks of units.

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Mon Aug 10, 2015 4:06 pm
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r530 wrote:
Vulcrist wrote:
Bit the stuff out. Seriously. I plan to never buy directly at those prices. At Gencon, I was able to find a box set of AoS for less than $90 (and went half with my wife on it). I was also able to pick up, from a couple different second-hand stores, a box of Skullcrushers, a box of Executioners, and a Stegodon for less than 1/2 price. New, sealed, still on sprue. I also got a Chimera for the low price of absolutely nothing. Online bits shops (and ebay) are your friends. If you have the will to do it, this game is actually cheaper than most other games out there.


I agree that from an individual's perspective that is a good way to keep the cost down. However, I'm pretty sure this contributed to the game dying. I only bought corsairs (3 boxes) and cold one knights (2 boxes) from a local game store because witch elves/executioners/and so on were just way too expensive. I turned to ebay for most of the rest, and that doesn't really encourage a local game store (to carry GW stuff) and it doesn't help GW bottom line (which they care about).


But the game isn't dying, it just came out and it's going strong. Though if it does kill it (AoS), I'm not out anything because I have the cheaper, affordable models, and the free rules. Win/win.

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Mon Aug 10, 2015 6:32 pm
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Well Daeron, I can agree with the entry cost being lower, but the question again is: can you organise a fun battle with a few units on each side when there are no point costs to balance it out? The way I see it you'll get better balance the bigger you go with your armies, as you'll feel attrition less quickly. I've read some of your playthroughs of the AoS scenarios and, disregarding the dice rolls now, they seem to be over in a flash. Of course, bigger armies is exactly what GW would like you to fall for.

So really, when you look at it the way GW would have you, you need the campaign book(s) to have balanced battles, which ups your entry cost by 60 euro.

On the other hand, I had some pretty fun games with the lads back in 7th where we'd get a battalion box, an armybook and a hero for under 100 euro, work out similarly pointed lists and have plenty of small, tactical games with 3-5 units. It was the time when armies were expensive but still cheap enough so that often you couldn't resist starting a new army that was the flavour of the month. I can't think of anyone in my club still doing that now. Yes, 8th edition with its supercharged magic, its hordes and its 2400 point 'competitive scale' made the game very expensive in one regard, I'm aware of that, but AoS won't be less so. Not in the long run.

Lastly I'd like to point out that in the Battle for Skull Pass box you had oodles of miniatures for just 50 euro, much better value for money than the AoS box. Sure, the models and their quality are much better in AoS, but even the introductory booklet in BFSP had more pages than the entirety of the AoS rules :lol: So really, the AoS starter set itself is piss poor value when compared to the previous starter sets, and is only worthwhile when you factor in the ludicrous cost of the separate Stormcast Eternal boxes.

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Mon Aug 10, 2015 6:56 pm
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*shrug* A lot of your arguments are lost on me. I'm not claiming the hobby is cheaper. I'm simply stating how I'm dealing with the cost that it is and how I'm finding more options available to me in AoS within that budget. You revel the options you had for 100$. I'm getting the same for 50 euros in AoS. Double that for 100 euros.

And it's not that they're trying to sell you less or make the hobby cheaper. They're not. Of course not. They're trying to sell you more, by lowering the barrier of starting something new.
Did you know that "free games" often make up the top 10 grossing games in app stores? They give the game for free, then have you pay for extras and more content, each designed to lure you into buying that one extra. And every once in a while they give you a new version for free, which soft resets part of the content to start it over.
I don't think the similarity with AoS is that far off.

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Mon Aug 10, 2015 8:17 pm
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r530 wrote:
They want 33$ US dollars for 2 censer bearers, see here:
http://www.games-workshop.com/en-US/Pestilens-Plague-Censer-Bearers

I wonder just how expensive they think they can make their stuff.


Yeah, I saw them for £20 here and choked at the price. Hell, I converted my own a few years back because I wasn't prepared to spend £7 on two of them.

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Mon Aug 10, 2015 8:49 pm
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Rork wrote:
r530 wrote:
They want 33$ US dollars for 2 censer bearers, see here:
http://www.games-workshop.com/en-US/Pestilens-Plague-Censer-Bearers

I wonder just how expensive they think they can make their stuff.


Yeah, I saw them for £20 here and choked at the price. Hell, I converted my own a few years back because I wasn't prepared to spend £7 on two of them.


Actually they updated it, it's $33 for 5, it was originally $33 for 2, so I guess it was a typo or something. $33 for 5 isn't brilliant but a whole lot better than 2.


Mon Aug 10, 2015 8:54 pm
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Daeron wrote:
*shrug* A lot of your arguments are lost on me. I'm not claiming the hobby is cheaper. I'm simply stating how I'm dealing with the cost that it is and how I'm finding more options available to me in AoS within that budget. You revel the options you had for 100$. I'm getting the same for 50 euros in AoS. Double that for 100 euros.

The same, you say? Great models but monopose instead, only two armies to choose from (and you have to find someone ready to take on the other army in the box, otherwise it's 100 euro as well) versus the many battalion boxes (more options?), and no armybook, which means no point values, which means good luck organising a balanced game - unless you buy a 60 euro scenario book.

If they price their books this high people won't have any money left to start a new army, so I really don't see where you're coming from with "lowering the barrier".

Daeron wrote:
Did you know that "free games" often make up the top 10 grossing games in app stores? They give the game for free, then have you pay for extras and more content, each designed to lure you into buying that one extra. And every once in a while they give you a new version for free, which soft resets part of the content to start it over.
I don't think the similarity with AoS is that far off.

A darker side of such F2P apps is that there are plenty of examples of pay walls where you have to spend cash in order to get anywhere interesting in the game, with a 'Best buy at 99.99$!' option for microtransactions thrown in for good measure. 'Free to play' games can sometimes end up costing the user more than a full console or PC retail videogame at 60$ would.

I agree, I don't think the similarity with AoS is far off at all :lol:

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Mon Aug 10, 2015 9:04 pm
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Daeron wrote:
I don't recall the hobby ever being cheap really.
Back when I first started collecting the game - around 1990 - it was £3.99 for a blister of 4 metal miniatures (So about £1 a model). Yes, inflation has occurred since then, so it's not a fair comparison immediately, but according to an online inflation calculator I just checked, £3.99 in 1990 is worth roughly £8.10 today (so just over £2 a model). Now you regularly pay £10 or more for a single model: a whopping 500% increase in real terms. Humm. Yes, the game was never cheap, but it used to be affordable. Now it's a joke.

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Mon Aug 10, 2015 11:11 pm
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The BRB and armybook alone wouldn't leave you with enough budget to buy a battalion and character within 100$ unless you go back over a decade. So yes, lower barrier indeed.

As for free-to-play that ends up costing more, it's seems you share my view so hurray for that. It's going to be murder for the compulsive buyer's wallet. But if you can manage your budget tightly, or set up a system to control your spending, it actually works well for the consumer too. There's the catch. And the reason such games make more money is because they work hard on always giving you something new and shiny, which is a potent power against financial discipline.

As for the scenario book... Well it hasn't proven mandatory so far for me. I don't get why it's presented as this undodgeable, hits you on a 2+ with a re-roll kind of thing.
What I do think is absolutely brilliant, more for me than for GW, is that it's absolutely free and, in a sense, supported to make your own content and plug it in with the rules. And why not? The game lends itself more easily to a resource campaign system than WFB, or scenario driven games. Why not make our own? I've never seen an easier template for it. I mean, this is actually a role where the community could do more than just chat about the hobby. They could help make the hobby.

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Mon Aug 10, 2015 11:20 pm
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Red... wrote:
Daeron wrote:
I don't recall the hobby ever being cheap really.
Back when I first started collecting the game - around 1990 - it was £3.99 for a blister of 4 metal miniatures (So about £1 a model). Yes, inflation has occurred since then, so it's not a fair comparison immediately, but according to an online inflation calculator I just checked, £3.99 in 1990 is worth roughly £8.10 today (so just over £2 a model). Now you regularly pay £10 or more for a single model: a whopping 500% increase in real terms. Humm. Yes, the game was never cheap, but it used to be affordable. Now it's a joke.


Yeah, that's where I'm throwing in the towel and bowing out of the thread. there's a wall of arguments and counter arguments there, and we could debate that for days. But I've seen that episode of the soap 'Endless Warhammer Discussion' since 2002 on a near weekly basis. I'm not even gonna bother.
If you want counter arguments, there's a search function and you can find dozens of threads, if not hundreds of them. Read and respond, rinse and repeat. There.

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Mon Aug 10, 2015 11:26 pm
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Sure - there are lots, and I actually support some of the price raises (stores are good for helping to introduce new players to the hobby: stores have to be staffed and wage costs along with rental prices have gone up, material costs have gone up, etc), but still, nothing really justifies a 500% or more increase over that period of time. It just doesn't.

My point is not to dredge up old history, as you inclinate, but to respond to your point that you don't recall the hobby ever really being cheap. I do, and it was. As an 8 year old boy, a couple of weeks worth of pocket money could purchase me a blister of metal miniatures - I can't even begin to imagine that today.

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Mon Aug 10, 2015 11:59 pm
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In the US corsairs are $25 for 10, I think that's pretty damn reasonable. Likewise, cold one knights are $33 for 5 (which being cav models I think is also reasonable). So they can make models that look awesome (perhaps subjective) and are still reasonably priced by today's standard.


Tue Aug 11, 2015 12:08 am
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You're cherry picking a bit there, though. A unit of blackguard is $50 for 10 and a unit of 3 Khorne Skullcrushers is $58. In terms of the new models, a unit of 5 paladins is $58. You are right that they CAN and occasionally do make cheap models that look okay, but they mostly don't.

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Tue Aug 11, 2015 12:34 am
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