How I break AOS

[Deplayer]

It seems that I am not the only person who sees how AOS is stupid, specifically the no points cost. Based on the sudden death victory conditions, if one side has one third models more than the other the they go to sudden death. So, here is how you break this game, if you go first put one really stupid powerful model out, say Malekith (who has the potential to churn out 30+ wounds a turn) or maybe Nagash. Then say your done. If he puts out more than 2 models you get the sudden death rules for your self. If you go second it's even better. He puts one down first, then you put you killer down, and if he puts one more down you get your favorable rules. It will turn into one bad ass versus another or smaller crap. As a counter to this, I'd play two bad ass characters, give him his sudden death rules but then he would have to fight Malekith and Nagash together. Good luck. Man this is a stupid game.

[Calisson]

Well, guess what?
Next time you bring your Malekith single model army, your opponent will bring his Nagash single model army.

You've just discovered the joy of playing rock/scissor/paper game with single uber-characters.
The following games will be played comparing some potential badasses:
Gorthor The Beastlord
King Louen Leoncoeur
bloodthirster of insensate rage / unfettered fury / Wrath of Khorne
Eltharion On Stormwing
lord Kroak
Azhag the slaughterer
Thanquol and Boneripper
Karl Franz on Deathclaw
Mannfred , Mortarch of Night
Archaon , the Everchosen

Probably four or five will emerge as single-hand game winners.
Have always a couple of them at hand.

If your opponent starts the game and places one of them, place the best counter you have (possibly the very same character as your opponent, and then you get 50% chances to win).
If your opponent then says "end of my deployment", then reply "same". If he keeps deploying, then have a normal game.

If you are the one who must start, start with your preferred badass. Your opponent will place his own. Then you place a second badass. If your opponent says "end of my deployment", well you're outnumbering him anyway so cannot avoid "sudden death" scenarios. But you can place half a dozen more badasses, and then, good luck to your opponent!

[Vulcan]

Which does not make for a particularly entertaining game, in my opinion.

YMMV, of course.

[Daeron]

Well this is an interesting read, for sure. I haven't read such a convincing tactical guide in a long time.
You talk about breaking the game with a single model strategy. Then you deliver a counter strategy. What's the counter to your counter?

[Calisson]

You talk about breaking the game with a single model strategy. Then you deliver a counter strategy. What's the counter to your counter?

The nay-sayers initiated this talk about single-model WAAC.
I try to imagine what can counter that.
The solution is that the last deployer may chose to place only a part of his army.
As a result, the real WAACky player is not o much the one who brings a single, uber-model to the game.
It is the one who brings one thousands models - and pick up one or a dozen among them.

[Barking Agatha]

Mind you, if you play with a single powerful model like Malekith, he still has to *achieve* his Sudden Death victory. With a single model, that's not as easy as it sounds, even if he 'churns out 30 wounds a turn', which is not a thing that will ever happen. Any small army can easily kill Malekith, or Nagash, if they have nothing else to worry about. You haven't 'broken' the game at all.

[Daeron]

Drop 4 Dwarven cannons with a runesmith, shoot Malekith in 1 round of shooting. They can't be targeted for sudden death. Of course, assassination is possible but then you can pick a tank character for that.

Of course, the opposing player still has the liberty to drop more units. Perhaps some Drakeguns?

The game is unrefined.. There's some gaping holes.
It reminds me of world of warcraft where they release a new expansion patch before the actual expansion. During this period in between expansions, all classes get so many changes that everybody kind of forgets how to play and makes some single-minded tactics to become powerful... And it usually works within the old content. Most people are overpowered, and the challenge is finding combinations that over power that which is over powered. It's only when the expansion is released that balance kicks in. It's a crazy time... And it tends to be quite a funny time
AoS feels exactly like that, to me, when I read the reports. It's like it's missing the content or framework wherein this all makes sense.

[uklvrbm]

If someone really put down one model and said done, why wouldn't you just deploy every single badass model you had along with the entirety of your force? Fill up the table and let them roll the dice. Assassination? Sure my general is the guy on the other corner of the board from your model. Good luck buddy. That's just silly.

I'm not saying this game is good, bad or (likely) somewhere in between. I haven't played it yet. I do think the game will force people to bring thousands of points every time they play because they will need to have the options. It will also force people to spend lots of money on things if they want to get serious about winning the game.

The better question would be what do you do when your opponent sets his shiz down that he owns on his half of the table and you see that he owns 6 badasses to your 2. What if he starts off laying down those models? How do you counter them?

[Calisson]

One supposition has been that badasses can single handedly win a game.
I'm expecting Daeron to mathammer that supposition away. Those badasses, actually, can be killed.
Example: Malekith has 14 wounds and 4+ save.
30 darkshards will shoot 60 shots, hitting on 4+ (their special property), wounding on 4+, saved on 4+. Dead Mallie in two turns.
And I actually own 30 darkshards
Reversely, Mallie and Seraf kill in average a bit less than 15 darkshards... but all of them in same unit, so they will wipe one unit of 10 per turn. Dead darkshards in 3 turns, not 2.

[Barking Agatha]

If someone really put down one model and said done, why wouldn't you just deploy every single badass model you had along with the entirety of your force? Fill up the table and let them roll the dice. Assassination? Sure my general is the guy on the other corner of the board from your model. Good luck buddy. That's just silly.

I'm not saying this game is good, bad or (likely) somewhere in between. I haven't played it yet. I do think the game will force people to bring thousands of points every time they play because they will need to have the options. It will also force people to spend lots of money on things if they want to get serious about winning the game.

The better question would be what do you do when your opponent sets his shiz down that he owns on his half of the table and you see that he owns 6 badasses to your 2. What if he starts off laying down those models? How do you counter them?

One thing to remember is that, unless ninjas are actually holding your grandparents hostage over a pit of alligators, you don't *have* to play. If you feel that your opponent's army is an unfair match-up to yours, you can just say so and work out a game that feels right to you both. If they won't budge then they are jerks, and you shouldn't play with jerks anyway, it only encourages them. I think you'll find that most people are fairly reasonable, though.

[Deplayer]

Speaking of mally, anyone noticed that his armor halves any wounds or mortal wounds he receives? Mortal wounds is obvious, but the way I read the core rules you do all hits, wounds and saves to see how much damage is done. With this wording, are you halving the wounds before saves, or the damage after his saves. Since "damage" has a specific meaning (i.e. Destroyer does 3 damage per unsaved wound) it seems you would discount half the wounds before he rolls to save. Not sure that's right, and I'll admit I have not spent a great deal with AOS yet, but it seems another poorly written example of how this game was ushered out.

And as I read the sudden death rules, the outnumbered player picks from the list, not rolls for a scenario. I'd just pick endure and have mally fly around and hide for six turns (maybe not this one against cannon heavy lists, but with the right terrain you could only be exposed to a couple at any given time and with the aforementioned armor issue....) or the hold ground one where all I have to do is get an enemy model within 3 inches of a terrain feature by turn 4. I realize fly isn't what it was but still.....

[Cailil]

I used to regularly for fun have a mock battle character v character with my brothers armies. We'd face Morathi off against Wurrzag or Malekith against Azagh. Or Maulus Darkblade against Grom the Paunch. (The only times I ever won was with Cult of Slaanesh Morathi). We did it for fun not seriously and anybody playing to win in this way needs to change their attitude. The kind of person who plays like this wont get games and if the rumoured house rules for competitive play are true or close to true that wont be allowed