Un-Welcome to the Age of Sigmar

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Re: Un-Welcome to the Age of Sigmar

Post by T.D. »

Arquinsiel wrote: well, Warhammer went shiz a long time ago.


Could you expand upon that statement please? What went wrong, and when?

I missed 5th-7th, but realise there are a lot of gamers who like that era.
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Re: Un-Welcome to the Age of Sigmar

Post by Arquinsiel »

I'll try remember to come back to this with sources later, but the point where I realised that all attempt at keeping things sane and not nosediving into a "spend more, get less" cycle with power sprint was the first standalone Daemons of Chaos army book for late 6th ed/early 7th (long ago, not entirely sure which). There were units in that book which had abilities that there was no possible counter to, and which changed the meta entirely. Then 8th ed came along and decided that the smart thing to do was to take the game with probably the best and most strategically flexible movement system of any mass-combat ancient to early-modern equivalent tech game and... make it random instead. Because can't have strategy winning over lucky dice rolls., at which point it was basically in freefall to failtown.
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Re: Un-Welcome to the Age of Sigmar

Post by Lord Drakon »

Cultofkhaine wrote:Did you see the video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=plUPJ0inN4c#t=626

Crikey he really did not take it that well at all.


Holy frig :D
It seems rage-quiting from Warhammer is a little different from other games
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Re: Un-Welcome to the Age of Sigmar

Post by The Mattler »

Red... wrote:Huh? GW sold rules last time I checked... even their ebook rules cost money. Sure, you can easily downloaded pirated pdfs, but you can apply that same logic to movies and music too, and they definitely remain "purchase or you're stealing" merchandise.

Until someone figures out how to enforce prohibition on lending property, or memory retention for that matter, trying to clamp down on information transmission in the face of current communications technology is futile. Even if it was a physical book I lent someone, is that theft of intellectual property on the part of the recipient or myself? What if they remember all the details? Is that a thought crime because someone acquired knowledge without a financial transaction to the publisher? From another angle, if the information is available at negligible cost, the company's insistence that that it can only be obtained at much greater cost through proprietary means is foolish.

Lord Drakon wrote:
Cultofkhaine wrote:Did you see the video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=plUPJ0inN4c#t=626
Crikey he really did not take it that well at all.

Holy frig :D
It seems rage-quiting from Warhammer is a little different from other games

One of the reasons that video is really funny is that his criticism about spears granting movement advantage is false. You can't freely pivot the models to get extra reach because no point on the model is allowed to move farther than the movement characteristic.

Another funny bit from that video is that all of Nagash's spells need to be different, so only one summon spell per unit type (which itself requires fielding that unit at the beginning of the battle). Also, from the looks of it, wiping out all of one unit type removes the ability to summon that unit (correct me if I'm wrong!). Nagash is powerful, but it's not even close to the nonsense the dude was complaining about.
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Re: Un-Welcome to the Age of Sigmar

Post by Red... »

@The Mattler, well, the law is the law is the law. Downloading books without paying for them is illegal and GW made a good amount of sales based upon people paying to buy hard copies or paying for the e-version. I think saying that they didn't is a little silly.

Arquinsiel wrote:Then 8th ed came along and decided that the smart thing to do was to take the game with probably the best and most strategically flexible movement system of any mass-combat ancient to early-modern equivalent tech game and... make it random instead. Because can't have strategy winning over lucky dice rolls., at which point it was basically in freefall to failtown.
While this critique has merit to it, it applies to any games with chance involved altogether. I mean, that same criticism could be made about rolling to hit, to wound, to pass armor saves, to do morale checks, and so on. The skill with luck based components is minimizing risk. At first when 8th came out, I would have agreed with you, but over time I learned that it was pretty manageable to make charges not feel very risky at all. For example, if you have a unit of elves and they are 15" away from the enemy, then it would be silly to try to charge them, as they would have to roll a 10 on two dice. But if they were 9" away, then charging makes sense, as you only need a 4. On many occasions, troops could be brought close enough to enemy forces that there was no need to roll at all (e.g. dark riders running around the back of the enemy lines would often be less than 9" away from their opponents when beginning a charge, and so make it in automatically). Yes, occasionally an enemy unit would make a hail mary attempt at a charge from 12" + their movement away and make it by rolling box cars, but most of the time they wouldn't try and if they did they would fail. If anything, removing the movement guessing dynamic (and removed the hyperfocus of previous editions on who gets the charge wins by getting to strike first) improved the strategy of the game dramatically, because it moved the game away from being primarily about whether or not you could guess whether a distances was 13" or 15" into being a game about the actual match ups. As with any game involving luck - the key is not to roll and hope for averages, but to twist the odds in your favor and then run with them.

But then this is rehashing old arguments for an edition that is no longer supported :badh:
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Re: Un-Welcome to the Age of Sigmar

Post by The Mattler »

Red... wrote:@The Mattler, well, the law is the law is the law. Downloading books without paying for them is illegal and GW made a good amount of sales based upon people paying to buy hard copies or paying for the e-version. I think saying that they didn't is a little silly.

Agreed, which is why I only claimed that the books were available for free, rather than given away by GW. I play Dark Elves and Eldar, and I bought all of their books, plus the mini versions of the core rules from dismantled starter sets. I'm suspect players of other armies generally do the same, but I doubt that most player's actually pay for any books for armies they don't own, but still want to know inside-out because they play against them.

Age of Sigmar is a huge opportunity for GW because the free online rules allow live edits with change logs instead of the cumbersome, incomplete FAQs we're used to.

Oh, and one more quick note about the summoning mechanic: since the summoned units count for casualties, but not starting models, as soon as a number of casualties are inflicted equal to the number of starting models, the game ends immediately as major victory. So much for summoning spam. :lol:
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Re: Un-Welcome to the Age of Sigmar

Post by Sangfroid »

Actually reading the rules for summoning the models don't count towards your army but do count towards casualties.

So

You can count the, towards % for a minor victory if at the end of the game no one is outright destroyed.

Also if you kill all the original models (I.e those that were deployed not summoned) then you win a major victory irrespective if there is countless summoned models on the table.

So against death or daemons your tactics are kill casters, then starting models and try to ignore the summoned stuff unless you feel a major victory is not possible in which case slay anything you can.
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Re: Un-Welcome to the Age of Sigmar

Post by The Mattler »

Sangfroid wrote:Actually reading the rules for summoning the models don't count towards your army but do count towards casualties.

So

You can count the, towards % for a minor victory if at the end of the game no one is outright destroyed.

Also if you kill all the original models (I.e those that were deployed not summoned) then you win a major victory irrespective if there is countless summoned models on the table.

So against death or daemons your tactics are kill casters, then starting models and try to ignore the summoned stuff unless you feel a major victory is not possible in which case slay anything you can.


My bad, it's a Minor Victory if you inflict casualties equal to the number of starting models, but it's a victory nonetheless, and all you have to do is not get wiped. You're correct about the Major Victory conditions as well. Interestingly, it looks like you might have the option of killing all examples of the unit that can be summoned as an alternative to killing the casters. The rules for granting the summoning spells are on the units being summoned, and with them gone, it may very well be the case that the spell can no longer be cast. If such units 'anchor' their summoning spells, that's a really cool mechanic. Also, since you need to deploy at least one unit of everything you plan to summon later, there's no such thing as, "Surprise! You thought you were fighting Horrors, but now you're fighting Bloodthirsters." You can only fight more of what you see in deployment.
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Re: Un-Welcome to the Age of Sigmar

Post by Sangfroid »

I like the interpretation of only casting the spell if the unit started on the board. The wording of the scroll is not 100% clear so could be argued BUT the defence is that the ability is written on the units scroll not the Wizards so I'd lean towards your interpretation. I hadn't spotted that and I like it a lot and also makes the summoning game more enjoyable for both parties
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Re: Un-Welcome to the Age of Sigmar

Post by The Mattler »

Sangfroid wrote:I like the interpretation of only casting the spell if the unit started on the board. The wording of the scroll is not 100% clear so could be argued BUT the defence is that the ability is written on the units scroll not the Wizards so I'd lean towards your interpretation. I hadn't spotted that and I like it a lot and also makes the summoning game more enjoyable for both parties

The part about only being able to cast the spell if the unit started on the board is clear. The part that isn't clear is whether the wizard retains knowledge of the summoning spell after the unit granting him that spell disappears.
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Re: Un-Welcome to the Age of Sigmar

Post by T.D. »

Arquinsiel wrote:I'll try remember to come back to this with sources later, but the point where I realised that all attempt at keeping things sane and not nosediving into a "spend more, get less" cycle with power sprint was the first standalone Daemons of Chaos army book for late 6th ed/early 7th (long ago, not entirely sure which). There were units in that book which had abilities that there was no possible counter to, and which changed the meta entirely. Then 8th ed came along and decided that the smart thing to do was to take the game with probably the best and most strategically flexible movement system of any mass-combat ancient to early-modern equivalent tech game and... make it random instead. Because can't have strategy winning over lucky dice rolls., at which point it was basically in freefall to failtown.


I wasn't there for the 6th/7th meta-changes, but even those of 4th edition army books pissed me off, so I can understand the dissatisfaction with power creep.

Regarding the 8th changes to the movement system, it is interesting to see the split this provokes -- just like the current 8th/AoS split. I always found that the 3rd/4th rules led to (i) overpowered charges (ii) players anxiously micromanaging each other's movement phase and (iii) a ~10.1" stand-off that slowed down the whole game.

While the 8th system was refreshing as it (i) sped up the game, (ii) led to players giving each other more slack with movement, (iii) replaced visual guessing with probability management (which is an art in itself) and (iv) more accurately simulated command of a unit; timing the momentum of a charge would not be an exact science like guessing 10.1" is.

That all said, I can see why others like the original approach. Just one of those things which splits the playerbase I guess. Which brings me to... (avoiding derailing the other thread):

The Mattler wrote:What I'd like to see is a resurgence of the old Druchii.net mentality of exploration and tactical development instead of the pointless, butthurt bitching going on right now. When life gives you lemons, sacrifice them to Khaine! :twisted:


On the contrary, when life gives you lemons, you sacrifice the person giving you the lemons to Khaine; in this case the personage being a company known as GW.

The "pointless, butthurt bitching" is in fact negative feedback, and is quite purposeful and with point. We are heavily invested consumers with a right to a public opinion on the changes fantasy has undergone.

Some are happy with the changes, and good for them. Many others, like me, are not. Why are we not happy? It simply comes down to the answer to this question:

- would you rather be playing a supported WFB or Age of Sigmar?

I'd much rather be playing a supported WFB.

So, from here, where do I go?

A) Take the passive approach, and quit or move on to another games system?
or
B) Take an active approach and communicate my displeasure to GW?

Option B) is the option that the D&D community took with the release of 4th edition, which forced wizards of the coast to respond with 5th edition. It is the option I am taking, because I would like to see a return to WFB. The ultimate outcome of this action is neither here nor there, but at least I have spoken my mind and GW have gained the negative feedback.

Regarding Age of Sigmar -- I am not interfering with the purchases, game play, enjoyment or exploration of tactical development of those playing it. If you enjoy it, good luck. But I simply have no interest, just as I have no interest in Warmachine or 40k.
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Re: Un-Welcome to the Age of Sigmar

Post by The Mattler »

T.D. wrote:On the contrary, when life gives you lemons, you sacrifice the person giving you the lemons to Khaine; in this case the personage being a company known as GW.

How dare you deny Khaine a steady supply of sacrificial lemons!
T.D. wrote:The "pointless, butthurt bitching" is in fact negative feedback, and is quite purposeful and with point. We are heavily invested consumers with a right to a public opinion on the changes fantasy has undergone.

For the moment, let's set aside the bulk of "negative feedback" floating around the internet as being either misapprehension of the rules or broken logic. There are some legitimate concerns, but they're hard to see among the cloud of nonsense (if you have some, though, I'd be happy to hear you out).

You, like me, are a heavily invested customer (I have probably ~7000pts of Dark Elves and ~15000pts of Eldar) who doesn't matter unless you keep emptying your wallet into GW's coffers. Verbal demand means little to a business unless demanding party is prepared to make purchases, and WHFB got the axe because not enough people were voting "yes" with their money for its continued existence.
T.D. wrote:- would you rather be playing a supported WFB or Age of Sigmar?
I'd much rather be playing a supported WFB.

GW does not support their games beyond a mailing list and corporate stores. No active role (or even prize support) in large tournament organization, and they dismantled the forum on their own website. You can send them email, but you will never get a reply unless a you're talking to a Forge World rep, and even then it isn't likely.

T.D. wrote:A) Take the passive approach, and quit or move on to another games system?
or
B) Take an active approach and communicate my displeasure to GW?

Option B) is the option that the D&D community took with the release of 4th edition, which forced wizards of the coast to respond with 5th edition. It is the option I am taking, because I would like to see a return to WFB. The ultimate outcome of this action is neither here nor there, but at least I have spoken my mind and GW have gained the negative feedback.

Option A) is not a passive approach, which would be to keep playing 8th WHFB with people who want to do the same. The situation with 8th is the same today as it was prior to Age of Sigmar: no future beyond what the players make of it.

Option B) works if you're willing to spend money, as I said above. The trouble is that, again, the veteran WHFB players haven't been making it worth GW's time to maintain the "support" that never existed in the first place. If you've like to communicate your displeasure to GW, by all means email them. I do, but I also tell them when I think they're onto something good.

[As an amusing aside, D&D 4.0 was an excellent tactical battle system onto which players could bolt any RPG elements they wanted. Besides, it's not like previous editions of D&D had roleplaying mechanics beyond reducing social interactions to characteristic tests. My only complaints with it were that, since the encounters were measured to be worth a certain amount of experience, take a certain amount of time, and level characters after a certain number of encounters, there was no need for experience system because you could just automatically level after the appropriate number of sessions. The difficulty of the encounters assumed magic item enhancement bonuses were always in use, and the magic items were expensive, meaning that they were the main sink for collected gold. As a result, if you added the enhancement bonuses from items at the appropriate levels to the main level progression chart, you no longer needed gold. Removing experience, magic items, and gold stripped away a bunch of cumbersome book-keeping that detracted from the gameplay. WotC even made that enhancement bonus chart for us in one of the supplements!]
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Re: Un-Welcome to the Age of Sigmar

Post by T.D. »

The Mattler,

May I ask you; would you rather be playing a supported WFB or Age of Sigmar?
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Re: Un-Welcome to the Age of Sigmar

Post by Elrithral »

I'm looking forward to AoS in terms of playing it with my family because my wife had no interest in learning the intricacies of 8th and it would have a been a bit much for the kids. However, I think it will be limited to playing the starter set, purely because I don't have the wherewithal to sit and work out "balanced" lists for any of my other armies.

I'm sure it's been discussed to death in this thread, but the lack of points, or any tangible way of just picking an equal amount of something, is a killer for me.

In 8th I could play a mate and my 600pts of core would probably do ok against his 600pts of core because....well; it's core (yeah some armies were better than others, but the points made up for it to an extent and if he went filthy it probably meant he had fewer models so I could still have a few tricks up my sleeve). Now, if we agree on 50 wounds, I might bring 2 attacks, hit on 3+, wound on 3+, -1 to the save Stormvermin and him bring Spearmen and then i'd probably feel compelled to apologise.

The only way round it, that I see, is actually discussing your lists before hand and sharing/tinkering with them, which surely ruins some of the game.
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Re: Un-Welcome to the Age of Sigmar

Post by The Mattler »

T.D. wrote:The Mattler,
May I ask you; would you rather be playing a supported WFB or Age of Sigmar?

That's a false dichotomy in the sense that the context seems to imply an either/or choice. I like 8th edition, but I'd be lying if I said I wasn't more excited about the new and interesting ways to field my Dark Elves offered by Age of Sigmar, and abolishing points costs lets me rely entirely on my own brain for unit evaluation. Figuring out game systems is something I really enjoy, and Age of Sigmar's deployment rules in particular offer a rich and engaging experience that will keep me going for a long time. If you really want to stick with 8th edition, I urge you to consider trying it with the Age of Sigmar's alternating deployment rules instead of the pre-made list. You could leave everything else about 8th edition unchanged.

Elrithral wrote:I'm sure it's been discussed to death in this thread, but the lack of points, or any tangible way of just picking an equal amount of something, is a killer for me.
...
The only way round it, that I see, is actually discussing your lists before hand and sharing/tinkering with them, which surely ruins some of the game.

I wrote a detailed response to that concern of yours in another thread, which I won't repeat here. The only thing emphasize now is that the deployment rules are all about making your lists in competition with your opponent. You have a say in what they bring to the table because your deployment choices affect theirs, and vice versa. How is that not the balancing mechanism you seek?
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Re: Un-Welcome to the Age of Sigmar

Post by T.D. »

It's not a false dichotomy, and indeed it was an either/or choice.

I was putting to you a hypothetical scenario; you rock up to the store tomorrow and (i) GW supports WFB, or (ii) GW supports Age of Sigmar.

Thank you for revealing your preference, if in an indirect way:

The Mattler wrote:I like 8th edition, but I'd be lying if I said I wasn't more excited about the new and interesting ways to field my Dark Elves offered by Age of Sigmar, and abolishing points costs lets me rely entirely on my own brain for unit evaluation.


Good for you.

Your position is one of preference for Age of Sigmar. From this position extends your perception of the issue, motivation, actions, preferred outcomes and strategies.

My position is one of preference for WFB. From this position extends my perception of the issue, motivation, actions, preferred outcomes and strategies.

This is a question of subjective taste, and in our two particular cases, it seems unlikely the twain will meet on the topic of preferred GW fantasy game.
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Re: Un-Welcome to the Age of Sigmar

Post by cultofkhaine »

Option B) is the option that the D&D community took with the release of 4th edition, which forced wizards of the coast to respond with 5th edition. It is the option I am taking, because I would like to see a return to WFB. The ultimate outcome of this action is neither here nor there, but at least I have spoken my mind and GW have gained the negative feedback.


If only GW could read these forums - there is a wealth of information in them for their customers! I wonder if they realise just how many people they have p!%$#@d off.

Taking a positive approach to TD's Option B how do we tell GW just exactly how we feel.

Could we summarise our points of concern, sign a petition and forward it to them for a supported WFB?

What would make them listen to us their loyal customers?
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Re: Un-Welcome to the Age of Sigmar

Post by The Mattler »

Cultofkhaine wrote:Taking a positive approach to TD's Option B how do we tell GW just exactly how we feel.
Could we summarise our points of concern, sign a petition and forward it to them for a supported WFB?

The three GW email addresses I know are:

custserv@gwplc.com - General mailbox, probably full of order processing messages from both direct customers and distributors. They get on order issues in a hurry, but I've never received a reply about anything else. Contrary to the GW customer service reps of old (a.k.a. The Mail Order Trolls), these reps are instructed to forward all comments and questions about the game mechanics to the next email address in this list.
gamefaqs@gwplc.com - Rules mailbox, supposedly read by the design team. A couple dozen messages sent; automated replies only.
forgeworld@gwplc.com - Self-explanatory, but I will say this: they do answer you directly, but the last time I emailed FW about rules clarification was on June 12 of this year, and the answer I got was "the design team never tells us anything". I'm not even kidding, although to the rep's credit, he wrote a big paragraph about a deep dungeon full of forbidden knowledge in the bowels of GW headquarters, but he still ended it with the translation quoted above. :roll:

Cultofkhaine wrote:What would make them listen to us their loyal customers?

Money, and lots of it. If your loyalty was enough on its own, you wouldn't be in this situation. Feedback doesn't seem to faze them either, but good luck to you nonetheless!
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Re: Un-Welcome to the Age of Sigmar

Post by cultofkhaine »

What about social media as an option - a lot of the GW stores in Aus have a FB page?

I also get the impression GW as a company are really just not interested in this kind of stuff.
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Re: Un-Welcome to the Age of Sigmar

Post by The Mattler »

Cultofkhaine wrote:What about social media as an option - a lot of the GW stores in Aus have a FB page?
I also get the impression GW as a company are really just not interested in this kind of stuff.

GW used to have a diverse social media presence, but that got scrapped just like their official forums.

Facebook - No official GW page anymore, although I'm not sure when it went offline. FW page active within the last couple of years, but now shut down. Local stores sometimes have Facebook pages.
YouTube (Warhammer TV) - Official GW channel. Active, but all comments disabled.
Twitter 1 - Global GW web store page. Steady activity up until February 12, 2013 (shut down).
Twitter 2 - Games Workshop events and activities in North America. Steady activity until February 28, 2014 (shut down).

Simply put, if it isn't marketing via email or YouTube, Games Workshop does not want to engage in communication with its customers. Any feedback must be provided by email or physical mail, and replies are highly unlikely (let alone dialogue). It appears that they prefer their customers to only buy their products, not discuss them, especially not in public spaces.

There used to be a document that included submission guidelines for providing feedback and ideas to GW, but I can't find it at the moment; from what I recall, it contained a clause stating that anything you send them immediately becomes their property, to use as they see fit without any obligation on their part to credit the source in the event that they commercialize your idea. They do, however, have a detailed policy outlining their protective stance regarding their own intellectual property. It contains, among other things, the following:
However, whatever exciting hobby activities you are working on, please do follow the guidelines below. So long as you keep within these guidelines, we are unlikely to object to your activities.
...
Do not damage our brands. Please avoid anything which may be prejudicial to the goodwill, reputation, image or prestige of our IP.
Basically, you're not allowed to say anything bad about GW, ever. Notice also the sections near the bottom of that page encouraging reporting infringement of GW's intellectual policy, with as much detail as possible, to infringements@gwplc.com. That's how forums get Cease & Desist orders. For example, 40kOnline was on the receiving end of some legal pressure from GW, and now lives in fear of them, to the point where the mods there aggressively censor any post containing unit stats or points costs.
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Re: Un-Welcome to the Age of Sigmar

Post by Red... »

Cultofkhaine wrote:If only GW could read these forums - there is a wealth of information in them for their customers! I wonder if they realise just how many people they have p!%$#@d off.


It pains me to say it, but do they really care? Remember this statement, from their 2014 Annual Review? "We do no demographic research, we have no focus groups, we do not ask the market what it wants. These things are otiose in a niche."
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Re: Un-Welcome to the Age of Sigmar

Post by Flam1ng0 »

@The Mattler, it is great that you are into Age of Sigmar, and I genuinely hope you enjoy the game. But this thread is very specifically for those of us who are disgruntled, annoyed and frankly just p*ssed off about the changes and, more prominently, GW's bullsh*t. Your optimism is wasted here, and is much better used on the 'Welcome' thread that is dedicated to a positive outlook to AoS instead. We just don't like AoS, it's that simple, so let us have this outlet to voice our disapproval please.

Anyway, I'm certainly not going to burn my army or any books, even if AoS is garbage. As a player, I'm annoyed about AoS by:

A) The total lack of forewarning about the drastic changes in Age of Sigmar and the scrapping of 8th edition to the general consumer base from GW itself. By this, I'm referring to sane and decent people who can't be bothered to indulge Natfka and Larry Vela in their ongoing contest of clickbaiting and d*ck-measuring (hey, they have to use those whippy sticks for something lol).

B) The complete change of background. I loved the WFB background, and the potential for in-depth narratives and campaigns it provided. To only briefly elaborate, my Ogre Kingdoms army has battled in campaigns set in places ranging from your run-of-the-mill Empire village to distant and exotic locations, such as Cathay, the Haunted Forests and the Dragon Isles, and even the Hinterlands of Khuresh. I have plans for my Dark Elves to be similarly well-traveled. And now this incredibly diverse setting, that outside the Old World was relatively scarce in expansion, has been replaced with some shoddy and lazy realms? Don't get me wrong, I get that the WFB world was directly based of our world and its history (albeit much larger and fantastical), so I could understand some name changes for IP reasons. But this new world isn't even original, it is just a lame knock-off of Nordic mythology/Marvel's Thor canon with a bit of Warhammer lore crudely pasted into it to make it a little less obvious to new players. Even the new race names such as Aelfs and Duardin sound Nordic. Does anybody else get a Thor vibe when they look at the art for Sigmar's realm too?

C) I get why they did it (kind of), but they named the new game after the dullest, lamest character in all of WFB (next to the great joke of the Old Ones that is Tiktaq'to, of course ;)). Sigmar is just the token 'saviour' character, a boring and uninspired template that has been overused. He lacks any of the depth and complexity that characters such as Nagash, Malekith and Morathi possess, and he also lacks the pure awesomeness that can be found in Lokhir Fellheart, Settra, Orion, Golgfag Maneater, etc. It's like renaming 40k as 'Warhammer: Age of The Emperor' (or for extra salt into those wounds, how about 'Age of Draigo' or 'Age of Guilliman' when they eventually decide to bring him back). Not only does it confirm GW's fetishism for imperialism and big blokes with pauldrons and shiny armour, but it does another sterling job of creating contempt in a player base for the system's 'poster boys'.

If AoS under-performs though, who knows? Maybe GW will do a Coca-Cola and release 'Warhammer Classic' next year !lol! And while I'm wishlisting, maybe they'll produce a new Malekith and Morathi model and change 40k's name to 'Age of Doomrider'! (probably more chance of 'Age of Sigmar' being renamed as 'Age of Oxyotl' though lol)

Finally, to lighten up our disheartened spirits, here is a meme mocking our hated Asur brethren that I made a couple of years ago. Hopefully it is good for a few laughs!
hammermon.jpg


Thus ends my rambling. I shall continue on with 8th Edition. REGNI DRUCHII! :)
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Red...
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Re: Un-Welcome to the Age of Sigmar

Post by Red... »

Flam1ng0 wrote:Age of Oxyotl

Now that would be a cool name for a game :D
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Re: Un-Welcome to the Age of Sigmar

Post by cultofkhaine »

@Red I remember reading that

"We do no demographic research, we have no focus groups, we do not ask the market what it wants. These things are otiose in a niche."


For a company that has IMO the best miniatures in the world (they have got the market) they sure do an epic fail when it comes to looking after their customers. And yet it's more laughable that we keep coming back (because there is no better alternative)

I have never been much of a gamer - it's more the painting/converting and fluff that have held my interest over the many years. The thing that despairs me the most is that they have in one foul swoop killed off everything I love about the race and given it no direction for the future to evolve - not even for the chance of new characters to take the place of the old ones. Even if they do bring out a new Aelf faction with a dark twist it will never be anything like my beloved Druchii.

They missed out on a great opportunity to design new units for our favourite armies.

With regards to game mechanics (and again I am not a player) I do like the idea of doing away with army books and listing each units stats on a Warscroll - some of their ideas could have been incorporated very well into the current 8th edition rules to evolve it to a new more dynamic level without destroying the game/world we love.

I remember the first time I was introduced to war games as a kid (playing Hero Quest) we played that game to death for a solid year every school holidays and then we evolved the game inventing our own rules when we wanted more - by the time we finished it we had a killer game.

I won't be buying anymore from GW, and will not invest in their new armies. I'm happy to play the odd game of 8th when I can.

I think there would be more fun inventing my own game. :lol:
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Re: Un-Welcome to the Age of Sigmar

Post by Rork »

From my other main interest, I've found GW's inspiration!

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