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Corsair
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Wisdom of ages
Caligula wrote:
Let them hate me, as long as they fear me.
GW wrote:
Let them hate me, as long as they buy my products.

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Fri Sep 25, 2015 11:40 pm
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Indeed.

But Caligula was bloodily assassinated by his own countrymen... Not a very propitious omen for GW.

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Sat Sep 26, 2015 1:56 am
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Red... wrote:
No, companies such as Privateer Press, Wyrd Miniatures, and Mantic do not have great advertising reach. But they do have a very strong engagement with their player base. Wyrd even went so far as to publicly pilot its beta version of Malifaux 2.0, and then collected and incorporated the changes requested by the community.


Huh. I met Justin Gibbs at GenCon three years ago, and he blanked me. By that I mean that I went up to introduce myself and he actually turned his back on me and pretended not to hear me. I said, 'Excuse me?' and he turned around again and struck up a conversation with someone else in a Malifaux shirt with his back turned to me. I realise that they're working and they're busy, but no one from GW has ever been that rude to me, or to anyone as far as I know. I've had a short chat with Jervis and with Paul Sawyer (a long time ago) and when they were busy they said, 'Sorry, I have to go,' or words to that effect. They didn't just ignore you. Hell, I've met Neil Gaiman, who was nice, and David Bowie, who ignored me politely, but I'm too insignificant for Justin bloody Gibbs? They have some lovely miniatures and an okay game, but I'd hardly consider them a good example.


Sat Sep 26, 2015 7:27 am
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I'm sorry to hear that you had that experience, but you can't make a generalization for all players out of one instance and I can't comment much on it - I wasn't there to know what happened. If I'm wrong about them, I'm sorry, but their forum does appear for the most part to be more cheerful towards the company and when I met their representatives at Salute a few years ago they were very friendly, helpful, and engaged. Moreover, and more to my point, their web engagement is excellent. Perhaps Justin Gibbs is a social delinquent, and that failing channeled him in to making more of an effort online :)

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Sat Sep 26, 2015 12:51 pm
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Daeron wrote:
I don't think it's GW's responsibility and duty to make sure you are aware of other products in their own stores. That logic is... totally.. alien to me.

It would seem alien if you quoted me on something I didn't say, but then I'm interested in growing the hobby whereas GW is interested in growing the GW hobby. And if some kid sees GW's prices and deduces that all of wargaming has insane entry costs, then that's another potential wargamer lost to a cheaper and much less awesome hobby.

It's fairly refreshing to see someone bash other companies' Facebook pages when GW hasn't had one for many years now ;)

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Sat Sep 26, 2015 5:29 pm
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Gnosis wrote:
It's fairly refreshing to see someone bash other companies' Facebook pages when GW hasn't had one for many years now ;)


"Bashing" isn't the word. But how GW is being compared to its competitors surprises me, considering I observe the opposite. Every Belgian GW store has a FB page. The one in Brussels keeps me posted on everything that's going on there and GW's products. For me there isn't a lack of interaction at all. It's just that a lot of the interaction is through their shop.

Red's right, that perhaps it isn't a fair comparison between a brick shop and an online one. Mantic's products don't seem to win a lot of exposition and showcases around here. I hadn't even heard of Mantic until this board started pointing at it. It took me a long time to translate KoW to Kings of War. And I had to google it to discover what it actually was. So where is their customer/social reach?

Maybe Mantic doesn't like Belgium ;)
We are responsible for Dr Evil, after all.


Or maybe we need the Belgian community to pick up their games... but the response has been low when it was suggested within the Warhammer community. So where to now?

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Mon Oct 05, 2015 1:48 pm
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I mean, let's try to swing into a more positive thing. Maybe I ought to ask Mantic on their forum? What do you recommend? What would be the easiest way to get to see their mini's in the flesh/plastic and get a test game going?
If Mantic offers a greener pasture, how can I find them?

I googled Mantic and Kings of War combined with Belgium. This is the result.
Googling Kings of War gives me theatre presentations. I did get references to the T3 tournaments site.
- No event for KoW in Belgium. Like.. None. Ever.
- No event announced.
- Found 7 players for Belgium total, one of which is listed as staying in Brussels, so I can check that one.

I didn't find a store through Google, but did get the Stockist list from Mantic as a result. It has 4 stores:
1st - The Fair Play. Link didn't work. Google'd it. Found a registry declaring it bankrupt back in 2010.
2nd - Intrafin. No link. Google'd it. found the website. Doesn't sell Mantic stuff according to their product catalog.
3rd - No link. Google'd it. Found two possible clarifications: (1) it's a pick-up point for orders, without shop. (2) it's tied to another shop (which seems to hold events there), but that shop doesn't sell Mantic products.
4th - Has a link, seems to have KoW products. Not too close by, but perhaps worth the trip once in a while.

On the Dutch stockist list I found a Belgian shop that I frequent. But I never saw a product there, nor on their website. I'll ask them next time I go there. Perhaps they offer an order/collect service.
I'll ask if they know any players too.... While they do have posters for Warhammer games, I haven't seen any of that for Kings of War.

On the Mantic Events list, I did find out they go to the Crisis Antwerp, which I plan to visit. That's good news. Luckily I know the Crisis event and searched its site. Because Mantic has it listed on the 7th of october instead of november.
On the Mantic forum, I searched and found 1 other player (and potentially a third).

Right. Let's see how can go from there, with 1 shop, 1 shop I should double check and 3 possible contacts for opponents.

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Mon Oct 05, 2015 2:43 pm
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Daeron wrote:
I mean, let's try to swing into a more positive thing. Maybe I ought to ask Mantic on their forum? What do you recommend? What would be the easiest way to get to see their mini's in the flesh/plastic and get a test game going?
If Mantic offers a greener pasture, how can I find them?

I googled Mantic and Kings of War combined with Belgium. This is the result.
Googling Kings of War gives me theatre presentations. I did get references to the T3 tournaments site.
- No event for KoW in Belgium. Like.. None. Ever.
- No event announced.
- Found 7 players for Belgium total, one of which is listed as staying in Brussels, so I can check that one.

I didn't find a store through Google, but did get the Stockist list from Mantic as a result. It has 4 stores:
1st - The Fair Play. Link didn't work. Google'd it. Found a registry declaring it bankrupt back in 2010.
2nd - Intrafin. No link. Google'd it. found the website. Doesn't sell Mantic stuff according to their product catalog.
3rd - No link. Google'd it. Found two possible clarifications: (1) it's a pick-up point for orders, without shop. (2) it's tied to another shop (which seems to hold events there), but that shop doesn't sell Mantic products.
4th - Has a link, seems to have KoW products. Not too close by, but perhaps worth the trip once in a while.

On the Dutch stockist list I found a Belgian shop that I frequent. But I never saw a product there, nor on their website. I'll ask them next time I go there. Perhaps they offer an order/collect service.
I'll ask if they know any players too.... While they do have posters for Warhammer games, I haven't seen any of that for Kings of War.

On the Mantic Events list, I did find out they go to the Crisis Antwerp, which I plan to visit. That's good news. Luckily I know the Crisis event and searched its site. Because Mantic has it listed on the 7th of october instead of november.
On the Mantic forum, I searched and found 1 other player (and potentially a third).

Right. Let's see how can go from there, with 1 shop, 1 shop I should double check and 3 possible contacts for opponents.

You seem to be a bit of an einzelganger type of wargamer, or am I wrong? There's nothing wrong with that, but it is indeed quite a bit harder to play lesser known games than GW's if you don't have a group of like-minded regulars to play with. Over here in our club (the Thunderbolts and Red Barons based in Ghent) one or more of us just buys a new ruleset and pick a date to try it out. Collecting and playing a plethora of rulesets is actively encouraged.

Give KoW time to gather some steam, they can hardly cope with the demand for the new rulebook at the moment. I hope they can build and grow a puissant community for their game as it really is brilliantly written and deserves high praise. Their miniatures, though... The new stuff is great (I'm of a mind to collect their new Ogres), but the old stuff is very much hit-or-miss.

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Mon Oct 05, 2015 9:28 pm
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I don't see why you try to label me as an einzelganger. How are the Thunderbolts these days anyway? How did AoS affect the club?
We played there a couple of times, but since our player from Ghent took a break we've kind of sticked to Halle, Brussels and Mechelen. Perhaps we ought to make the trip a few times again.

As for Mantic and KoW, I really am going to give it a try. I'm tired of the negativity above all else. What I want is a fun hobby to craft things at home, and a fun game to play with friends. AoS fits the bill, but I'm not sold on it as "the one and only". It doesn't have to be AoS for me, and I'm certainly open to suggestions. All I need is to convince the rest of my group, or find a club within reach where I can play. My only requirement for the game is that I can use my dark elves, in one form or another.

I posted my search for KoW and Mantic here to show you the challenge it is to look for new places. The social media and internet reach of clubs and shops could be better in my experience.
Mantic Games simply don't have the exposure that makes "getting started" an easy task. I mean, this is the "unwelcome of AoS" right? Let's put the alternatives on the table and see how easy the alternatives are.

In my experience showing how an alternative works is more encouraging, and leaves more breadcrums around the internet for the next googler to find you. Maybe if I'm vocal enough about my search for Kings of War, another player who's looking for it will find my trail

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Tue Oct 06, 2015 8:48 am
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Ehh, I just read between the lines of your previous post and had the impression that you are the type of wargamer that devotes a significant portion of his wargaming time to online communities and found the KoW communities lacking for your purposes. Sorry if I offended you by pigeonholing you thus, as again, there's nothing wrong with that (I used to fall into that category until I met the guys in Ghent).

AoS is pretty much dead in the Thunderbolts- I only know of one person in the club who's played it more than once and found it decent. But I gave him a Bolt Action demo and he's pretty much set on that game now. 40k is still going strong though, but Warmahordes has emerged as the leader of the pack. I'm not a Thunderbolts player per se, I'm part of the Red Barons (mostly historical wargaming) though we share the Outpost in Ghent with them and organise a convention with them. I can't speak for the Thunderbolts but I reckon you would be more than welcome, best to check on their forums first to arrange a table and an opponent.

Anyway, regarding finding new places to play Mantic games: With the many rulesets that are released for historical wargaming each year I guess we've grown into the habit of starting a new community - as in, a group of people within our club(s) that are on board with the ruleset and regularly meet - instead of having to actively look for new players, new shops, new clubs elsewhere.

Do try Frostgrave. Had my first game on Saturday and it was brilliant.

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Tue Oct 06, 2015 11:00 am
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I'm not offended, just a bit puzzled. I do spend a lot of time in online communities compared to RL lately, because my LGS quit and my group isn't as active lately. We'll change it around ;)

I was planning on seeing Mantic at Crisis and the Dice Bag Lady who made a considerable amount of reporting on Frostgrave recently, so I might get a chance to test it then. I also checked the Outpost. Considering they have a base in Brussels and Antwerp, as well as Ghent, it might be a good place to start.

I did notice Warhamhordes has gained a lot of activity in Belgium lately, but I'm not sold on the minis. Not yet anyways. It might change when I see them IRL.

Personally, I prefer the aesthetic of KoW. Well some of its armies. But I need only to love 1 (and its rules) to buy into it. Meanwhile, Mantic accepted my forum registration so we'll see!

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"I move unseen. I hide in light and shadow. I move faster than a bird. No plate of armour ever stopped me. I strike recruits and veterans with equal ease. And all shiver at my coldest of whispers."
- The stiff breeze


Tue Oct 06, 2015 11:59 am
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I miss 8th... It was so much fun.

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Tue Oct 06, 2015 3:37 pm
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Jvh792 wrote:
I miss 8th... It was so much fun.
A pretty spot on synthesis of 9 pages of forum posts! :|

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Wed Oct 07, 2015 7:00 am
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It looks like we're heading for another war on the territory of Belgium based on this thread...

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Wed Oct 07, 2015 3:27 pm
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We could flood ourselves with beers near Ypres.

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"I move unseen. I hide in light and shadow. I move faster than a bird. No plate of armour ever stopped me. I strike recruits and veterans with equal ease. And all shiver at my coldest of whispers."
- The stiff breeze


Wed Oct 07, 2015 3:32 pm
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:) Nah, we're cool. Wouldn't be nearly as great of a hobby without grumbling like a grognard about it.

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Wed Oct 07, 2015 4:06 pm
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Damn.

I was hoping for some high drama in the low countries.

I'll get my coat.

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Wed Oct 07, 2015 9:13 pm
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That's pretty low of you.

I'll join you

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Thu Oct 08, 2015 9:13 am
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We don't need drama or war to meet up and have beers (for those who want beers). All are welcome ;)

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"I move unseen. I hide in light and shadow. I move faster than a bird. No plate of armour ever stopped me. I strike recruits and veterans with equal ease. And all shiver at my coldest of whispers."
- The stiff breeze


Thu Oct 08, 2015 9:22 am
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Seems the Black Library is selling the WHFB Rulebook again: http://www.blacklibrary.com/Warhammer/w ... ebook.html

Does not seem to be a good sign for AoS…

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Thu Nov 05, 2015 11:54 am
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Could just be a way to clear out old stock. Not sure if it was there anyway and no one really noticed.

If they have actually brought it back, then that is an interesting move.

Edit - Noticed it is actually the ebook, so not a stock clearance. Does come with a disclaimer that it is no longer a supported game at least.

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Thu Nov 05, 2015 12:27 pm
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Quote:
Warhammer: Rulebook is designed for use with Warhammer: The Game of Fantasy Battles. That game system is no longer supported, but this title remains available for those who want to recreate the epic battles of the lost world.

That did make for an interesting reading.

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Tue Nov 10, 2015 11:46 pm
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Meanwhile I found Mantic at Crisis. They blended in the crowd perfectly, which is another way to say they didn't stand out. But it wasn't bad. They actually sold stuff, which is more than GW did ! (They only had a promotion team.. and big panels and a showcase).
I did get a demo of Kings of War, but not by Mantic. It was a UK gaming group that had a large game going. Which I thought was really cool that they did it. They did tell me that, if I really wanted it, I might have start it up myself. I'm not sure if I can commit to that. The game itself looked elegant, though a bit "light" in rules. Personally, I'm interested and wouldn't mind playing it, but my gaming buddies didn't catch the vibe of it so it might be a no go.

Either way, a positive impression but I may have to drop the idea as it lacks community and momentum in Belgium. I'll try the one shop that has the game though... I might stumble upon a well hidden community there.

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"I move unseen. I hide in light and shadow. I move faster than a bird. No plate of armour ever stopped me. I strike recruits and veterans with equal ease. And all shiver at my coldest of whispers."
- The stiff breeze


Mon Nov 16, 2015 4:45 pm
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I have had a few games now. Whilst rules light compared to WFB, I have found it a pleasant change. There is a good tactically depth and the rules are elegant. Plus there is the added bonus that the FAQ is a living document and updated and adjusted regularly.
Waiting on the new expansion book coming out this month with an additional range of army lists.

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Mon Nov 16, 2015 6:13 pm
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