Warhammer TV explains Pile In
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Author:  Daeron [ Thu Dec 08, 2016 3:03 pm ]
Post subject:  Warhammer TV explains Pile In

https://www.facebook.com/WarhammerTVtea ... 240585561/

A brief video explaining some of the things you can or can't do while piling in. This has been the general interpretation in all gaming groups I'm familiar with, but it's good to see this playstyle endorsed.
I kind of like the short videos they are putting out.

Author:  Shadowspite [ Fri Dec 09, 2016 7:17 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Warhammer TV explains Pile In

So... is base-to-base (i.e. measure from base and cannot overlap bases) now the official way of playing AoS? Because, if not, that video is pretty useless (and misleading). And if it is, then we're going to have a problem with square vs. round bases.

I'm pretty annoyed and worried now.

Author:  Daeron [ Fri Dec 09, 2016 8:56 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Warhammer TV explains Pile In

So, if I understand you correctly, you had a find and clear interpretation of pile-in before this video, and this video somehow cast doubt and worry on you?
What was your interpretation before the video?

Personally, I think it works for both base-to-base and model-to-model measuring. With all the protruding elements of models, it's usually not too difficult to get in contact with another model. Getting into contact with the enemy is often used as a trick to lock down the enemy model.
As for overlapping bases in model-2-model gaming, my understanding is that it's generally frowned upon unless it's a mechanical necessity and both players feel such a precise tactic is required. I've never had it come up though. Not once. Usually players just agree like "Yeah, sure, X models could reach him". The model-to-model approach works quite well for elaborate, high relief scenery in my experience.

Any competitive game I've seen had base-2-base measuring. In those games, scenery is usually more structured as well.

Author:  Shadowspite [ Sat Dec 10, 2016 9:22 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Warhammer TV explains Pile In

Those Bloodreavers that couldn't pile in and attack in the video? Their path was blocked only by bases. With the (RAW!) model-to-model rule, they could have attacked. So what's shown in the video is a houserule (technically two houserules, but I doubt anyone ever does base-to-base measuring while still allowing bases to overlap, or denies base overlapping but still measures model-to-model).

For me, there was nothing that the video made clearer than it was already (I never thought pile-in was remotely complicated or difficult). All it did was muddy the waters about whether base-to-base or model-to-model is the official way of playing AoS.

Objectively, I think base-to-base is better. Except that I am never, ever, ever going to rebase my hundreds of old WHFB models onto rounds. Model-to-model works sufficiently well and doesn't give my square-based models an unfair advantage.

If GW makes base-to-base official, then the next obvious step is to mandate round bases of the 'correct' size for every model. If that ever happens, I won't be able to use my DE or Chaos armies any more. In which case I'm out of this hobby again, and for good this time. That's pretty much my only red line with AoS. Let me keep using my old WHFB minis without rebasing or I am gone.

So, for me, this video is either pointless and didn't add anything, or it's a worrying sign of things to come that might well push me out of the hobby again.

I don't play in tournaments, so base-to-base being a near-universal houserule in tourney settings is fine by me. I just don't want my local GW store to start telling me I need round bases to play. Or for other players to start giving me the stink-eye for continuing to use square bases because they think I'm getting an unfair advantage. There's no unfair advantage as long as we play the game by actual RAW and measure model-to-model. If the other player wants to play base-to-base, that's fine, but then they have no grounds to complain that the houserule they insisted on gives me an advantage.

But if base-to-base becomes the official rule, then all that changes. So, yeah, you could say this video "cast doubt and worry" on me.

Author:  Daeron [ Sat Dec 10, 2016 7:59 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Warhammer TV explains Pile In

That seems like a lot of weight for a short video. But I understand and can relate to it. I'm not sure how much my Dark Elf army would be appreciated in AoS. I tend to play AoS with my Bloodbound which are AoS models.
Although the square vs round shouldn't make a big difference, I understand it could be frowned upon in a strict, competitive environment. I don't have such an environment myself. My local GW is very flexible on the base department. I've seen players paint new armies, in their store, on square bases (for models that come on round bases ;)).
If your local game store is as flexible, then I wouldn't be too worried.

Internet trends do tend to seep into gaming environments, but I think GW is going to opt for the cheap way out "just use the base the model comes with". If a more strict rule would be enforced, it's likely a local meta kind of thing.

Author:  Shadowspite [ Sun Dec 11, 2016 9:35 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Warhammer TV explains Pile In

Daeron wrote:
My local GW is very flexible on the base department.

Oh, so is mine at the moment. But this video implies the GW studio staff think of base-to-base as being the default now, to the point that they didn't even mention in the video that they are using that houserule. It is presented as if it is the actual rule. And it is likely that attitude will eventually filter down to local stores.

That seems like a lot of weight for a short video.

Sure, but that video is the point of this thread. So I'm giving my thoughts on it. Doesn't mean I'm waking up in a cold sweat about it. :lol:

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