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would you play with a man. and his 3d printer army? 
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Executioner

Joined: Thu Dec 09, 2010 5:11 pm
Posts: 178
hello friends

i am back to you guys with a questions sorry to bug you it been a long time

a man was at a game store and fought a man with a 3d printed army. want to know if you guy would refuse to play since he dont support OUR game

thank you guys and hope you are good! :D


Wed Mar 27, 2019 3:41 pm
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Corsair
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Joined: Fri Mar 14, 2008 10:00 pm
Posts: 8713
Location: Hag Graef
Hi, Blondshade, long time indeed!
Hard to understand the question:
how possibly someone actually playing a game would be considered not to be supporting that game?

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Thu Mar 28, 2019 8:50 am
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Black Guard

Joined: Mon Mar 20, 2006 10:26 pm
Posts: 285
Location: Italy
I suppose Blondshade is referring to the fact that the man with 3d printer is not buying any miniature...
I think our game is supported also buying manuals, scenery and dice.
More than anything else, the game is supported by playing it.
So, the answer is no. I wouldn't refuse to play against him.
On the other hand I would comprehend the shop owner for banning him

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Thu Mar 28, 2019 1:20 pm
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Corsair
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Joined: Fri Mar 14, 2008 10:00 pm
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The game, conceived by GW, consisted in selling models and accessories, and making efforts to induce customers to buy more thanks to programmed obsolescence and obstacles to competitors.
The game, played by the hobbyists, consisted in collecting and assembling models, painting them, creating stories, meeting opponents, having a drink, reporting battles, discussing the merits of units, theoryhammering etc...

When we refer to OUR game, my understanding is the second version, not the first.
They use to coincide. No longer since THEY destroyed deliberately OUR game. Now OUR game has many alternatives to THEIR game.

When we talk about a game store, it is by no way limited to a GW game store. I do understand fully that GW game stores limit the games played there to GW models. Fair. The shopkeeper needs to make a living.
I have heard that some of them tolerate The 9th Age games played in their shops, as long as players use only GW models. Outstanding! Reversely, T9A takes care that most old GW models are supported by rules - even those which GW itself does no longer support.

The games shopkeeper business model is evolving, at least those not limited to GW.
First, they understand that they need to make money more on coffee and beer and room rental than on models.
Second, they understand that customers are attracted by other customers having fun.
This is what we encourage at T9A. No matter the brand of the models which can be sold by the shopkeeper, they most likely may fit T9A.
Even 3D printed models, or even 2D paper models should be interesting, because they allow a cheaper entry to the hobby, and a hooked customer using 3D models will sooner or later want to ahve nicer quality models.

Now, the OP question was about a player refusing to play against another one because of 3D models.
This is another story.
Not much different than a player refusing to play against an army of unpainted models: part of the Hobby is in the visual pleasure.
If the 3D models are blunt and static and all in the same position, I would understand a displeasure.
On the other hand, better have such opponent than no opponent at all. Moreover, such opponent using 3D is probably not able to afford GW models... yet. Better be patient and in the long term have the hope to get a greater quality opponent.

In any case, refusing to play someone because of insufficient model quality seems to be a poor practice.

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Fri Mar 29, 2019 8:02 am
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Malekith's Best Friend
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Joined: Sat Mar 19, 2011 2:28 am
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I think it depends. When you look at the older editions, at least a quarter of the units you could used could had to be kit bashed, and it wasn't until maye 7th or 8th edition that many got an actual model. Others that existed, were often more expensive so it made sense to kit bashed them (how many of us made our crossbow man using a mix of high elf archers and dark elf warrior, or dark riders with wood elf glade riders and dark elf crossbow bits back in the day) In a GW store, It makes sense as they have to sell a product, but in a none GW setting like a more mom and pop store, how many of us didn't use different game units.

If most of the army is like that, I could see a problem. Granted said person is making good use of a expensive piece of equipment. o I can see both sides of the argument.

On the other hand, a 3D printer to make scenery, that is awsome.

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Sat Apr 27, 2019 10:04 pm
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Generalissimo
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Wargaming was always about wanting to have a simulated battle between two friends.

Supporting tools like scenery, miniatures, cards, rules, etc, were always means to an end and could and should be items that could be substituted.

Would you shun a player who used ebay models because they purchased them second hand (thus not contributing anything to the shopkeeper's wallet?) How about a player who used self-made hills (books, polystyrene, etc) rather than purchase them from a shopkeeper? Of course you wouldn't.

Callison has it mostly right, but I would go even further. Wargaming existed BEFORE Games Workshop. Games Workshop and every other company since then has benefited from players needing tools such as rules, miniatures, and scenery to carry out their hobbies, not the other way around. Wargaming was always OURS long before companies came and commercialised it - so why should players be required to purchase from companies in order to wargame?

Additionally, 3d printing is probably going to be part of the future - like it or not. Shops and players are going to have to adapt. You face a stark choice - do you cut down on your opponent pool by refusing to play with people who 3d print their army or keep an open mind and play people regardless of how they acquired their models.

The nice thing about being open minded about your opponent is that it allows people of different financial positions to play the game. Yes, a well-off individual might have the luxury of buying all of their models new from GW, but not everyone has tons of cash hanging around. By allowing opponents to use less orthodox measures - be that proxying other models, using 3d printed models, or even as Calisson says using paper cut outs - you allow players who don't have a lot of money to play too.

Of course, their models need to be clearly identifiable or defined at the start of the battle - no one wants to play against "mystery models of unknown character", but as long as they have clearly said "this block of spearmen here are really blackguard" so there is no confusion, then I think it should be fine.

That all being said, if the 3d printed models were replicas of another company's models and the player had not purchased the right to 3d print them, it could be a copyright issue and they may be breaking the law. However, if the 3d printed models were of generic warriors used as equivalencies instead, it should be fine in my opinion. Be grateful that you have a willing opponent and have fun - best them on the field of battle, not in a griping match.

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Tue Apr 30, 2019 6:45 pm
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