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g.w up to its old tricks again 

are g.w prices to high???
yes 89%  89%  [ 31 ]
no 11%  11%  [ 4 ]
Total votes : 35

g.w up to its old tricks again 
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Beastmaster
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Hi,

Now iv been a warhammer player for around 9 years now and i love the hobby ever since i saw my 1st copy of w.d in WHSmiths and over the years iv loved what they have done with the hobby. However over the years i have bought less and less not due to the fact that iv lost intrest but due to the cost of the hobby. low and behold g.w are raising prices once again all £3-7 packs are going up by £1 which might not seem much but over a unit it ads up and over an army its alot of dosh i wouldnt mind so much if these price rises wernt so frequent but it seems every few months they go up bit by bit. the plastic regement packs were supposed to be great price savers at £12 when they were 1st released and now £18 and im sure they will soon go up. they are still good prices but agan thats only because 3 metal model will now be £7 which is a lil steep. In my eyes g.w have no compition in what they do as u cant use any non g.w models in any torneys or at g.w stores. the price rises have driven off many of my mates who used to game and stop me from enjoying it as much as i do. am i just becoming a grumpy old git at the ripe old age of 23 lol ??? or am i on 2 somthing? just a general rant that i had to get off my chest lol


Sat Jul 22, 2006 11:20 am
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Malekith's Best Friend
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I honestly can't remember a time when people didn't moan about GW prices, but the fact is that they're a hobby and not something people have to buy, so they can charge whatever they want without feeling guilty. At some point they'll reach a non-sustainable limit and the rate at which people purchase items will drop enough that they'll have to lower prices again. Until they reach that point there's nothing preventing them from charging more and more.

Personally, from my wallet's point of view, they've passed that point (£15 for a regiment box was my upper limit for new army purchases) and now I buy a whole lot less than I used to - I don't pick anything up on a whim anymore. But if there are people who can still afford to pick up GW stuff whenever they feel like it, then good luck to them they're sustaining a hobby that I'm interesting in.

There's plenty of other, cheaper, games out there now that might be worth exploring if you can't afford GW anymore :).

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Sat Jul 22, 2006 11:32 am
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with that being said i have started to play d&d role play which is a whole lot cheaper lol 1 £6 model lol not bad

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Sat Jul 22, 2006 11:35 am
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The main reason that the blisters are goin up in price is becouse the price of the metal has gone up.this has happened across the whole of the moddle indistry.

I work in a moddle shop and I see why the prices have gone up so its not GW's fault,If thay didnt put prices up the would loose some seriouse money.And from the rumer's iv heard GW are in trouble with money anyway.

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Sat Jul 22, 2006 12:45 pm
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Witch Elf
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also with the oil prices going up and up and UP plastic is getting more expensive.

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Sat Jul 22, 2006 12:52 pm
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The Bane Of Gavin Thrope
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No, not for what they have to do to get their plastic/oil to make their models... eventually it'll be too high, but right now it's fine by me (since I don't buy much anymore, though. The last thing I bought was paint, a paintbrush, and Blood Of The Dragon, so... :P).

But yes, Games Workshop are in trouble with money, but in this world, who isn't (other than Bill Gates, of course)?

Oh, this has been discussed to the death before, by the way;
:badh:
(Whoever imported that should be shot... :P)

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Sat Jul 22, 2006 2:56 pm
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It has become a tradition for GW to raise prices on a portion of their products every 6-12 months. As long as people buy their products, why shouldn't they? After all, the management nor the shareholders are interested in making sure we have a good time, they are interested in making sure they make money. If we incidentally have a good time, so much the better (as long as we keep buying their stuff).

The rise in resource prices is only partly responsible for the steady increase in prices. They've been going up well before oil and plastics became more expensive although it does make the problems they are having a lot worse.

A while back, someone posted financial information on the forum and it showed that GW suffers from an immense cost structure. The cost is mainly due to GW insisting on distributing its own products in its own stores, giving rise to soaring fixed costs. Almost all the money made in the US goes into paying the costs incurred in the US.

Add to that, that other games are slowly breaking GWs network effects (if everyone you know plays Warhammer and you want to enter a similar hobby, you're basically forced to play Warhammer as well). Confrontation, Mageknight and War Machine are all increasing in popularity, especially in the US.

And then there's the large loans they have to pay back.

In short, GW is close to being in trouble and if they're not careful, there will be trouble.

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Sat Jul 22, 2006 3:22 pm
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SleekDD wrote:
It has become a tradition for GW to raise prices on a portion of their products every 6-12 months. .


actually it is only once a year. it feels shorter though.

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Sat Jul 22, 2006 3:28 pm
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Quote:
actually it is only once a year. it feels shorter though.

IIRC, it's happened twice in the last nine or ten months. I could very well be wrong, though - I remember Eldrad increasing in price as one "readjustment", but there was another change in there as well. I think. :?

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Sat Jul 22, 2006 3:43 pm
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Eldacar: I am not sure, but that might be because US and UK price are independent from each other, so sometime in may or june we had the US prices rising, and now we have the UK prices rising. So it may appear to happen more frequently than it actually does to someone who´s browsing hobby forums a lot.

On the issue as a whole, I am rather indifferent. I don´t buy too much stuff from GW anyway, having at least a year´s load of models that still need paint lying around, and if I do need the odd extra model for conversions, I usually just look through ebay.

And 2 more Euros for an army book are nothing I´ll start crying about. It´s not great, but it won´t be the end of my hobby either.

The only thing about it that worries me is that GW might actually start going the way into bankruptcy, and I´d hate if that happened, because then I wouldn´t see any new stuff (which, even if I will never buy it, is always fun somehow), the rules wouldn´t develop any more, and support for the hobby would lessen in general.

So I just hope GW finds a balance in their pricing that allows them to prosper.

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Sat Jul 22, 2006 3:58 pm
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eh.. some Dark Eldar special char costs 7-8£, a blisterpack of most dudes, 3 included is 6-7£. One of those dudes is made from more metall than the DE char... Stupid and lame

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Sat Jul 22, 2006 4:53 pm
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They've only bumped up all the tanks by 5€ a couple of months ago, and now this. Thank the gods for eBay.

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Sat Jul 22, 2006 4:59 pm
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Well, there's no point complaining about it really. We all know GW prices are high - I actually feel guilty when I help someone get into the hobby. As for why they are higher, well, there are obviously a number of reasons you can discover if you take a read through an economics textbook. As Damnation said, however, there is always eBay, and there are deals to be found there let me tell you. I picked up a 1500 pts Elday army via eBay (in pieces and having to sell some stuff that I didn't need from the packages I bought) for 100 USD. And that includes 6 vypers. I've also managed to pick up a 2000 pts lizardmen army that was, in the end, free. That's right, free. So, if you're patient and somewhat skilled in the arts of eBay, you can get massively good deals.

And there is always LOTR. Its not a bad game system and the models are all cheaper and there is only one book to buy.

Quote:
The only thing about it that worries me is that GW might actually start going the way into bankruptcy, and I´d hate if that happened, because then I wouldn´t see any new stuff (which, even if I will never buy it, is always fun somehow), the rules wouldn´t develop any more, and support for the hobby would lessen in general.


Actually, I think it wouldn't be much of a problem if GW went under or started to anyways. For starters, what woudl happen first is they'd just sell off all their non-european assets and that would keep them a live for a good long while. After that, there is still such a fan base that you'd still see games happening. For sure, it would lessen, but if they go under, they'll have a hard time pressing copy rights, so most rules will end up on the web someplace and you'd still get people will access to the hobby. You wouldn't get anything new, necessarily, but I think forums like this one would then thrive as we could make our own stuff as a worldwide community of gamers and make all of our resources web based for people to download. If the gamers are good enough, we could easily keep the hobby afloat if GW went under.

Personally, I just don't see any sense in buying from GW direct anymore when everything they sell, you can find someplace else and cheaper.

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Sat Jul 22, 2006 5:12 pm
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See, now I've just started a Brettonian army...thank the heavens most of what I want for my army actually appears in box sets. But then again...I also don't know whether to fix one of my army's so it actually works...ah well.

No, this is getting kind of ridiculous now. I couldn't understand half their price rises, but hey, I laughed because at most they didn't affect me. Now I'm being hit fully by them. Bah games workshop, bah!!


Sat Jul 22, 2006 5:24 pm
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The stupid argument that oil prices have gone up and so this somehow merits a price hike is just bull. According to GW materials amount to only 3% of their total outlay.

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Sat Jul 22, 2006 9:48 pm
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The discount from what I hear that employees get is disgusting. if it is as disgusting as rumours of mine may say GW makes whole boxes of their minis for cheaper than 10$.

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Sat Jul 22, 2006 10:00 pm
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I think $10 is an over estimate. I did a rouch calculation for the cost of raw plastic and cardboard for the box and i see no way that the raw materials could total more than $2. Fair enough the mould are very expensive but they are used tens of thousands of times each.

I would put the figure at more like £3 or $5 tops

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Sat Jul 22, 2006 10:07 pm
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They still have to pay wages, electricity bills, mortgages/leases, shipping/transport costs etc. etc. It won't just be the price of plastic that goes up - GW's electricity bill will rise, and no doubt the courier companies will pass on the fuel price increases to GW. It all adds up.

What it costs to make and what it costs to get to us (and make a profit) are two very different things.

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Sat Jul 22, 2006 10:35 pm
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Eldacar I think in Australia we had a price rise on all the army books/codices about a year ago, and now this one on the blisters. $20 for 3 guys!!!! They used to be 16 when I started.

Sean

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Sat Jul 22, 2006 10:42 pm
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A Guy told me a Full 2250 Lizardman army with bit order costed him a little under 50 dollars. grant it he was a store manager but still.

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Sun Jul 23, 2006 1:03 am
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Quote:
Eldacar I think in Australia we had a price rise on all the army books/codices about a year ago, and now this one on the blisters. $20 for 3 guys!!!! They used to be 16 when I started.

I remember the AB price rise quite well, yes - I'm just thankful that I don't buy models nowadays.

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Sun Jul 23, 2006 2:15 am
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Therein lies the problem in the matter - as the price of the hobby goes up, more and more people are seeking alternative methods of purchase to the point where many people don't bother to buy stuff direct from GW anymore (Ebay has already been mentioned), because they have no good reason to. However, because this costs GW in terms of sales, they raise the prices yet again in order to maintain a consistent level of profit, which in turn serves to appease shareholders in the company who may or may not play the game but likely do not. In the end, it's a rather vicious cycle and in the long run, we're making it more difficult for ourselves and others to continue this hobby, assuming that there are still people who buy direct from GW. Then we turn around and whinge about how the sole purpose of GW, the company, is to make money when in reality, changing factors in the market (Ebay) and our willingness to take advantage of these changing factors (a logical choice) have a role to play as well. After all, the general purpose of the entertainment industry is to entertain and even the higher-ups in management can't be completely unsympathetic to the plight of the gamers.

Do I sound naive to you? No, I'm just trying to provide a balanced viewpoint as I see far too many people in these kinds of discussions using them as a soapbox for an anti-GW rant and make all kinds of sweeping statements.

To appease the more cynical masses, I would have to say that the significant employee discount was a mistake from the beginning because it puts the staff out of touch with how difficult it is for the rest of the gamers to get things direct from GW. Assuming that the management are also gamers to a certain extent, you can see what I mean by mistake. Unfortunately, nothing can be done about it now without causing significant headaches in terms of employee relations, although lowering it may still be possible without anyone minding.

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Sun Jul 23, 2006 3:57 am
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SleekDD wrote:
The rise in resource prices is only partly responsible for the steady increase in prices. They've been going up well before oil and plastics became more expensive although it does make the problems they are having a lot worse.

A while back, someone posted financial information on the forum and it showed that GW suffers from an immense cost structure. The cost is mainly due to GW insisting on distributing its own products in its own stores, giving rise to soaring fixed costs. Almost all the money made in the US goes into paying the costs incurred in the US.

Add to that, that other games are slowly breaking GWs network effects (if everyone you know plays Warhammer and you want to enter a similar hobby, you're basically forced to play Warhammer as well). Confrontation, Mageknight and War Machine are all increasing in popularity, especially in the US.



At least there are a few people with some common sense here! Due to a lack of competition GW can afford to work inefficiently and ask any retail prices. It is not because plastic/oil prices have rosen that they have to increase their prices in the way they did (look at standard plastic soldiers: you could buy 100 of them for 2EUR or so). Like Sleek said their value chain (distribution & marketing mix) is all wrong and they can still get away with it.

I had the following in mind:

GW should sell everything you really need in 1 starter box (let's say a 2000pt army together with rule book and army book) for a few armies (not all of them because of limited shelf space) which then could be sold as 1 toy in a toy store. Maybe there could be an additional box as an 'expansion set' for another 2000pts. Selling starter boxes through toy stores is cheaper than having an own distribution system and could create a network effect since a completely new audience could be reached. In a toy store the barrier to entry would be a lot lower.

For all other additions/products/games they should focus on their online distribution system instead. Warhammer is a product for which people are willing to go on the internet (look at ebay!). This has the advantage GW would receive the entire value in the value chain, including retail margin and doesn't need an expensive distribution system (lower fixed costs). One distribution centre in every country/state could replace an entire chain of stores. These benefits would easily compensate the shipping costs and shipping could become free for orders >25EUR or so decreasing barriers for buying online.

Obviously current fixed costs undermines innovation. Hopefully they will start changing their poilcy in the near future. For example I don't think it was very wise to start a new game (LOTR) when the movies came out. For networking reasons it could have been better to use the opportunity promote their existing products (WH fantasy). Having the most popular wargame in the industry GW should focus on their core asset: an existing network. Since the market is not saturated yet it is better to increase their market (new countries/broader public) instead of entering new ones (other games) and squeezing their current ones (price rises).

Unfortunately I have just started my own business. Otherwise I might just contact GW and share my expertise concerning these matters. Look at the stock prices falling from Jan 2005: http://uk.finance.yahoo.com/q/bc?s=GAW. ... z=m&q=l&c=


Sun Jul 23, 2006 7:45 am
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Linda Lobsta Defenda wrote:
also with the oil prices going up and up and UP plastic is getting more expensive.


Not really. The price of oil only marginally affects the price of plastic due to the quantities of plastic sold versus the quantities of oil needed to make it.

If the OP would be so kind as to spellcheck and paragraph himself...

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Sun Jul 23, 2006 4:55 pm
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NiteRabbit wrote:
which in turn serves to appease shareholders in the company who may or may not play the game but likely do not.


Hey! I play the hobby! I can tell you one thing, if you don't like something become a shareholder. Every now and then you get to vote on things...

Remember TSR, the makers of D&D? They managed to dig themselves a big hole, and for a while D&D went under. Now that it has been bought and revised, not only is it better than ever, the books are cheaper than they were before.

GW needs a good shakedown, but I honestly doubt they will go under. Nor should they sell off their US stores as they account for a large percentage of their sales. Unfortunately the independent stores are going out of business.

I also remember when regiment boxes were less than 20 US dollars, and that wasn't that long ago either, 4,5 years ago maybe. I used to have regiment boxes unopened stacked to my roof. It was weird, but very very cool.

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Tue Jul 25, 2006 11:07 pm
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