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5 years. 
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The Dane
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It's already 5 years since the attack on the Twin Towers, feels like it's only a couple of years though (for, that is).
Let's all take one minute of silence for the victims.

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Mon Sep 11, 2006 11:48 am
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Amen.

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Mon Sep 11, 2006 12:13 pm
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Yup, and take a minute to rember all the victims of the ensuing acts of Vengence.
The attack on the twin towers has brought nothing but missery, death and war all over the place. The world is a darker and nastier place after it.

To those who died in vein, I am sorry you had to give your life. I hope there is a God, so as your death was not the end.

Ras

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Mon Sep 11, 2006 1:02 pm
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*salutes*

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Mon Sep 11, 2006 1:23 pm
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needless to say us moderators will police this thread as it can erupt. if you feel you need to comment on anything else then dont.

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Mon Sep 11, 2006 1:35 pm
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I remember that day like it was yesterday. I was in high school and once that second plane hit school basically stopped, all the class periods I was in it was like yeah we are not learning today only listening to news radio to find out more information.

Since I was a senior I had this schedule where I only had like 2-3 classes that day. An announcement came over the PA system that all seniros were to report to the detention room before leaving after their last class period. I went there they were like all trains into manhatten are not running and the bridges have been closed if you live in Manhatten we are setting up cots in the gym if not have a safe trip home to wherever you may live. The school chapel will be opened longer than usual after school for those who wish to pray then they let us go. Luckily I live in Queens and my school was in Queens 30 mins on the road I was home.

Minute I was home I was calling everyone I knew who had family that worked in downtown NY. Luckily no one I knew personally was lost that day, but unfortunatly many people were lost although. One of the people in a few of my classes his mother's body was never found. It's assumed she was vaporized by the extreme heat from the burning jet fuel. That I think was the saddest part of the whole tradgedy that many people had to bury empty coffins because their loved ones were never found or were vaporized.

But what make the tradgedy worse is the families of the victims are riled up that the design of the new freedom tower wasn't the one they wanted and are delaying construction. So instead of construction and jobs being rebuilt in downtown Manhatten theres a big hole filled with weeds and dirt just waiting to be rebuilt.

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Mon Sep 11, 2006 2:51 pm
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i too remember that tragic day, so many lives lost and whats worse is that many were innocent ones. i just hope nothing like this happens again.

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Mon Sep 11, 2006 3:47 pm
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@Slerac Fellblade: That was a vey nice post. Thank you for sharring it with us. Perhaps if other people wrote up their expereinces of the day we might all learn something. Not me though. Mine was quite simple. Hear about at School. Go home and watch TV. Feel sad. The 7/7 bombings in London had a more direct impact on my life, but thats because I am in London and not NY.

beastmaster kurlan wrote:
i just hope nothing like this happens again.


But it does. It happens almost every day. The lives of innoscent people are lost all the time to actiosn that need not ever happen. The multitude of Civil Wars and Genoscide taking place in Africa, the Fighting in Afganhistan, the Bombing of Palestein, the perpetual Carbombings in Baghdad, the Islamic/Christian violence in Indonesia, the violence in Nepal, and all the various violent speratist movements (ETA and the IA to name but two in recent times). What was shocking about 9/11 was that it happened on such a huge scale in somewhere seen to be so safe. Its so sad that so much killing takes place and even more sad that so littel of it is even news in the Western World.

As the Black Eyed Peas said: "Where is the Love?"

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Mon Sep 11, 2006 3:57 pm
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RasputinII wrote:
Yup, and take a minute to rember all the victims of the ensuing acts of Vengence.
The attack on the twin towers has brought nothing but missery, death and war all over the place. The world is a darker and nastier place after it.

To those who died in vein, I am sorry you had to give your life. I hope there is a God, so as your death was not the end.

Ras


Great Post Ras. The world has not only become a bit more dangerous but hate is groing in every corner and it seems that a chain of events has started which we no longer are able to control and we are helpless and unable to see the outcome of.
Peace be with the people who died on that day and the many other dead that have died in the 2 American wars since then.
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Mon Sep 11, 2006 9:35 pm
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It is terrible that we live in a world where human beings can cause such great destruction in the name of 'goodness'.

My fondest regards to those who died, and to those who worked to save those in danger.

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Whiteboypolka

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Mon Sep 11, 2006 10:22 pm
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RasputinII wrote:
@Slerac Fellblade: That was a vey nice post. Thank you for sharring it with us. Perhaps if other people wrote up their expereinces of the day we might all learn something. Not me though. Mine was quite simple. Hear about at School. Go home and watch TV. Feel sad. The 7/7 bombings in London had a more direct impact on my life, but thats because I am in London and not NY.

beastmaster kurlan wrote:
i just hope nothing like this happens again.


But it does. It happens almost every day. The lives of innoscent people are lost all the time to actiosn that need not ever happen. The multitude of Civil Wars and Genoscide taking place in Africa, the Fighting in Afganhistan, the Bombing of Palestein, the perpetual Carbombings in Baghdad, the Islamic/Christian violence in Indonesia, the violence in Nepal, and all the various violent speratist movements (ETA and the IA to name but two in recent times). What was shocking about 9/11 was that it happened on such a huge scale in somewhere seen to be so safe. Its so sad that so much killing takes place and even more sad that so littel of it is even news in the Western World.

As the Black Eyed Peas said: "Where is the Love?"


In general, I strongly agree with most of what you said. However great the suffering caused by 9/11, we can't let vengance blind us of our humanity. Tragedy faces us daily around the world, and 9/11 remains a drop in that sea of misery. What I will say though is that 9/11 is a unique historical and psychological event because it really represents a very dramatic historical shift. 9/11 was really a moment where all the utopian visions of the post historical world brought on by globalization were punctuated by a single massive event. This event was unique not just because it was America, and not just because of the scale, but because it was an attack perpetrated by so few people who were independently acting individuals striking a power half a world away from their homes. Never before have non-state actors wielded such power and had such ability to strike at massive cost and at such range. Terror has been a global rather than just a national phenomena at least since the sixties, but never has it been done on anything of remotely this scale or with such dramatic effect. Just as the worlds borders have been melting to make way for commerce, what 9/11 demonstrated is that with this global prosperity and trade has come violence of global reach and global scale. Though the potential for such a thing happening has been there since the 50's, 9/11 was unquestionably the defining moment, the inevitable results of opening the Pandora's Box of globalization. Any post historical utopian ideals brought on by the fall of the soviet union were erased within the span of a few hours. That is the unique legacy of 9/11.

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Mon Sep 11, 2006 10:35 pm
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RasputinII wrote:
The 7/7 bombings in London had a more direct impact on my life, but thats because I am in London and not NY.


And that's something to pick up on. The rights and wrongs of the ensuing wars aside, the US has always been insulated from the wars it has fought in the modern era.

It suffered not the churned mud of trench warfare, blitz or blitzkrieg. So when that innocence was finally lost in a time of "peace" anger was always likely to take over from a more "rational" course. If someone attacks you, you don't just "take it."

Unfortunately for the americans, the world got a lot smaller that day.

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Mon Sep 11, 2006 10:44 pm
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I think it is worth mourning the victims of all wars, whether from terrorism or missle attacks. It is unfortunate that so many are killed with the ongoing wars between the USA and other countries, but I cannot give more pity to American victims than I do to African victims. The world is a dark place, but it is rare that any North Americans are reminded of this fact. Ideally there would be less killing in all countries, especially in more unstable and violent countries than the USA - it will keep happening though, because people always want to take what they can when they are able to get away with it.
A moment of silence to all of the world's victims of hate and violence.


Tue Sep 12, 2006 7:28 am
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Quote:
Perhaps if other people wrote up their expereinces of the day we might all learn something. Not me though. Mine was quite simple. Hear about at School. Go home and watch TV. Feel sad. The 7/7 bombings in London had a more direct impact on my life, but thats because I am in London and not NY.

Mine wasn't that different, really - my mother woke me up saying "somebody flew a plane into the World Trade Center", and I just thought she was joking and tried to go back to bed. Then I checked out the TV, and she was right. Following that, there was no work done at school that day. At all. Everybody was too busy watching the news, teachers and students included. It was extremely shocking.

I'd also agree with what Archdukechocola said - it is, IMO, very true.

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Tue Sep 12, 2006 11:13 am
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I was sitting, and thinking that I've made a good topic about something that big, and without any flaming. Then I saw your post. I think Linda said something about it.

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Offending post removed. Mornedhel.


Why did you feel like writing this?

And why did you write the unserious ending of your post Prince of Arnheim?

Ras wrote:
Thank you for sharring it with us. Perhaps if other people wrote up their expereinces of the day we might all learn something.

I cant remember that much about it, I was 10 years old back then. I only remember my mom telling me about it when i came back from school...

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Tue Sep 12, 2006 11:56 am
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Arch Duke: Nice post.

Warning: The following does go a bit OT towards the end ;), but I wanted to present a few more detaled thoughts on the matter, perhaps at he expense of crossing a line...

September the 11th 2001: The Catalyst to WW3.

It doesn't matter who caused it, what matters is the result is has had, and the result it has had is an East West divide, the resurrection of long dead animosity and the creation of an atmosphere arguabley far tenser then that of the Cold War. Bush and Blair have brought this war to our door step, and what was unheard of before is now a global "brand". Violent fundementalism is nothing new, but the fear and hatred between the West and the Islamic world (particularly the middle east) is, and its impact has only been felt following "Operation Vengence" which was begun following the atatcks on the WTC.

Hoever I am in full support of its rememberance. We remember acts of evil that have effected us closely, acts of a magnitude and evil that are otherwise unheard of. The 9-11 attacks were the first attacks on American Soil committed by non-americans for a very long time (excluding Pearl Harbour) - like Rork says, the distance the Americans usually atriibuted to war was well and truely gone. It will be remembered with enthusiasm for decades to come and then it will peter out, much like VE day and all the other important memorials. Whether it will still have any significance in 100 years will largely depend on the outcome of the "War on Terror" (how very inapropriate it is called). Will the West prevail as it did over communism - a force much like the Islamic world that wasn't evil, but just ended up becomming the West's enemy. It seems that the multiculturalism of the Western World doesn't apply to its foreign policy.

What is most saddening about the WTC incident is that the people who died their were only the first, the first of tousands to die as a result of those men hijacking those planes. Iraq wouldn't be being Suicide Bombed every day and another futile war wouldn't be being fought in Afghanistan. It angers me really to think how many have died as a result of that tragic day (in the true sense of the word tragic), and died needlessly. The people of Afghanistan have suffered many a war, yet never been beaten and occupied sccesfully. They fought off the British Empire, the Soviet Russian Invasion and the People's Republic of China's in vasion, and now they will fight off NATO, I don't condone the Taliban regime, but I neither do I dondone NATO's presence in this country.

Both sides are guilty of the same thing. Interfering with territories and peoples of different culture. Its the typical modernist plan of uniting every one under the same banner. Intervention in foreign powers with the desire to spread ones own culture as they feel its superior is highly Imperialistic and downright wrong to my, Post-Modernistic, eyes. Let us celebrate our differences, and acknowledge others rights to different opinions and culture. Right and Wrong and Good and Evil are terms that ignore the existance of Grey and are as such unacceptable terms to be used to discuss humanity.

To repeat what I said before: "Where is the Love?"

Ras

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Last edited by Rasputinii on Tue Sep 12, 2006 1:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.



Tue Sep 12, 2006 12:19 pm
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No further posts about the political aspect. Any post containing a political statement from now on will be removed completely, and anyone posting a political statement that is insulting to others will receive an official warning.

This thread is for commemorating the people who died, not for discussing who´s to blame for it.

Personally, I think who suffered much more than the actual victims are their friends and family, because they are the ones that have felt the pain. The victims will have had a brutal and cruel death, but they do not feel anymore. But those who mourn them and who have to deal with the completely unexpected and unjustifiable death of their loved ones have felt the pain for five long years now, and I doubt all of them will get over it.

They are the ones who really suffered, and most likely suffer to this day, and they are the ones who have my sympathy.

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Tue Sep 12, 2006 12:39 pm
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Where's the love gone?

Into the trash-can. What, did you think that we'd keep it around when it started giving us commitments?

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Tue Sep 12, 2006 3:49 pm
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I think it is, and I am sorry if I'm insulting anyone here(if so, you have my apologies) strange that it continues being what we look back on every year. As Ras said already, there is so many tragedies all the time, and in that year, a lot of other tragedies happened aswell. I would not say I mourn for the deaths of that day, for truly, I don't. It doesn't bother me anymore. And that is perhaps the saddest: that we forget so easily, and let it become naught but a memory. Who honestly thinks back on septemper 11th and feels blue? Not that I blame those who may do so - I think it sad that I dont, and so many else does. Where has the love gone? No. Where has humanity gone?

I pray(actually I don't, but you get the meaning) that the families of the dead has found peace in this matter. And that you understood what I meant by all this.


Tue Sep 12, 2006 4:18 pm
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I was watching Oprah a while ago (don't ask :D ) and it was an episode about a woman who'd lost her husband on 9/11. The fund donated her five million dollars, which she proceeded to spend on a new kitchen, seven flatscreen TVs, a swimming pool, designer clothes, purses and shoes, a couple of cars, etc.
Interesting case, really. And a good lesson to draw from this: material wealth won't dry the tears in your eyes.

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Tue Sep 12, 2006 5:45 pm
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Belial. wrote:
I think it is, and I am sorry if I'm insulting anyone here(if so, you have my apologies) strange that it continues being what we look back on every year.

I don't find this strange at all. If you take a look at an American calender you will find some more things like this. 1.) Memorial day, a day which we remember all of those who have died in the wars in which the US fought. 2.) Veterans day, a day in which we remember all of those who have fought for our country. 3.) Pearl Harbor day, we honor the lives lost in the sneak attack on Pearl Harbor on December 7, 1941. It is not strange at all when we continue to remember those lost and their families only 5 years after 9/11, when we continue to do the same for those of Pearl Harbor 65 years later.

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Tue Sep 12, 2006 6:08 pm
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As has already been stated the Sept 11th attack was big in that it was on America's home soild and bar the near Genoicdal Civil war no enemy has really attacked America bar Pearl Harbour. So I am not surprised to here that Both Pearl Harbou and 9/11 are commemorated. Here in the UK although we haven't been invaded for a very very long time (nearly 1000 years), we have had a lot of threat in the form of the WW2, Napoleon and more recently we have lived through the IRA bombing campaigns, so acts of violent on our home soild are less rare, and less shocking then they would be in what is seen as the Worlds Only super power (probably incorrectly though).

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ok i think we all had our say. this is a tad to flammable for me to feel comfortable with it remaining open since we so far had to remove a few posts.

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Tue Sep 12, 2006 6:23 pm
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Mornedhel:

You did a great job in dealing with the usual situation. Congratulations, you should be commended.

9/11 is something us North Americans feel strongly because it challenged our atypical libertarian and free way of life. However it is wrongly concluded by many people that it is the first terrorist attack on North American soil committed by foreigners who hate what our way of life represents, it is actually one of several.

I won't bother with a list.

It also awoke many over here to what has been going on in the world for a very long time now, terrorism in the name of Allah, falsely interpreted. North Americans are not bloodthirsty people and this is why this event and following events causes so much emotion and introspection for people over here. However many people are also old enough to remember, or have family histories that remember the same things happening nearly 70 years ago, and the people who claimed that fascism and irrational hatred of certain groups was simply a German thing, and that we should respect their culture - whatever that may mean.

It is only after that the majority of people realized that it was not German culture but the human element playing itself out.

History has important lessons for us.

Thus the topic sadly probably deserves to be locked due to the sniping done by people who have a lot of anger for the US, but don't really know what they are talking about, nor have ever volunteered their time to helping another human being or a group of people.

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Tue Sep 12, 2006 8:18 pm
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