On the differences between 40K and Fantasy

Barondesade · Post by **Barondesade** » Mon Feb 10, 2003 3:35 pm

'lo All,

Since I made my last post, I have seen a lot of disparagement of WH40K by WFB fantasy players, both here and on the GW boards. I was pretty surprised by this, as I play both games, and BFG as well, and I think a lot of other people play Blood Bowl, Necromunda, Mordheim, Talisman, Inquisitor, or any of the other many games that GW manufactures without feelings of conflict.

There have been two main complaints registered against 40K that I have seen, and I would like to open a further discussion on these issues.

The first is that WH40K is mostly "for kids" or played "by kids." I hadn't really noticed or thought about this before, but in the end, I wonder exactly what it means. Yes, I'd generally rather play with adults, as we have more in common to talk about, but I can still enjoy a game with a kid. Every kid is different, and frankly, I admire any of them that can sit still long enough to paint their minis', as I don't remember having that much patience at that age.

The other argument is that WFB is inherently superior because it is "more tactical," but simpler game systems are by no means bad game systems, if the point of your gaming is to have fun. For example, one of my friends has two games by Avalon Hill. One is called "Russian Front." It's an older AH game. It's very complex, and we haven't played it in years. The level of complexity is just so demanding that it almost takes too much effort to play. It's certainly not the kind of thing we can finish in one session.

The other game is called "History of the World." For those of you who have never played it, it is a drastically improved version of "Risk." It has very simple rules, but it's a ton of fun. Because of this, I look upon HOW as a "better" game than RF, even though RF is a lot more deep and tactical of a game.

Anyhow, one of my biggest gripes against WFB is that some of the armies are much less tactical than others. The Skaven are without a doubt, the worst culprit. Any fool can line up a bunch of cheap Skaven regiments with Ratling Guns in between and march to victory. Likewise, establishing a Dwarf or Empire Gun Line is not exactly the most taxing mental exercise. I find that this greatly detracts from the fun of the game for me. The worst incident was playing against a Skaven player a little while ago who was barely paying attention to the game and still wiped me out.

So if the game is going to be like that anyhow, I might as well play 40K and just enjoy myself, rather than being frustrated.

As a bit of an aside, a lot of the complaints about WH40K center around either shooting being too effective or HtH being too effective. I can't help but imagine that these complaints are driven by the kind of army that that particular person plays, though. i.e., if my army shoots, I'll complain about HtH being too good.

I play two fairly extreme armies in 40K, Blood Angels and Imperial Guard. Each has its own specialties, but the strategy remains the same for both armies, even as the strategy still applies to WFB. Attack your enemy at a 2:1 advantage. For a HtH army, this means using your manueverability to bring more troops to bear on the enemy. For shooting, it means concentration of fire. Yes, WFB is more concerned with positioning of troops, but at heart, the strategy remains the same.

Anyhow, I'm stripping some of my old metal minis and redoing some of my paint jobs. The Blood Angels were my first army, and I think I've come a long way since I started painting. It's nice to see the improvement. I'll also be doing my armies in a more fluffy and narrative and less cheesy way than I did before. For example, the Blood Angels are kind of crazy, so I expect that I will add an Inquisitor to their army, so I will have someone sane to give the battle reports. I guess that it is still OK to post my batreps here, as a lot of people like reading them, ay?

So, having rambled enough now, I just wanted to encourage some of you to keep an open mind towards other gaming systems, as well as players of all ages. I'm not giving up on my Dark Elves completely; I just need a good long break.

Viva Druchii.net!

Drasanil · Post by **Drasanil** » Mon Feb 10, 2003 3:46 pm

Well I understand your point of veiw and if you want to play 40K theres nothing we can do to stop you, so I just hope you`ll have more fun playing 40K, and about the skaven thats is completly true and I bet you that Aliseo wanted to make that army so he could win almost all the time with out having to think to much! Thats what happens when you put a cheese mongerer in charge of making his favorite army, I hope that in the next incarnation of the skaven is written by Gav so that those skaven players will know are pain and actualy have to think about how they will use there armies!

Quasekomiki · Post by **Quasekomiki** » Mon Feb 10, 2003 3:51 pm

What you play is completely your choice.
As I have never played 40K, I am certainly not the one to comment you on that choice.

One thing is fo' sure...
I like those battle reps, so keep on writing 'em (I do hope I'll understand what you're talking about though...)

- human · Post by **- human** » Mon Feb 10, 2003 8:11 pm

40k is cool, actually i'm about to start Dark Eldar...

I just don't like how common space marines are. Nobody can deny that they are immensely overused. :roll:

Post by **Grogsnotpowwabomba** » Mon Feb 10, 2003 8:55 pm

- Human wrote:I just don't like how common space marines are. Nobody can deny that they are immensely overused.

To the point where you will forget the last time you didn't play against Space Marines.

Its truly awful...

Drasanil · Post by **Drasanil** » Mon Feb 10, 2003 9:25 pm

I know its harde to turn around at mi local GW and not see some space marines and its been for ever since I saw someone come in with dark eldar or sisters of battle !conf!

Yokozuna · Post by **Yokozuna** » Mon Feb 10, 2003 10:33 pm

I have thought about starting 40K as well. I'm stuck with 2 choices, Tyranids or Necrons, they both look cool. Maybe I should just throw a dice, even=Tyranids odd=Necrons.

Leithel and odd · Post by **Leithel and odd** » Mon Feb 10, 2003 10:40 pm

This would probably do better in Non Druchii Discussion.

Anyhow, I've played 40K a little bit before. It's not bad, and I can enjoy it as with most miniture war games. But I can't compare it to Warhammer myself mainly because I'm not hugely into Sci Fi. Not because of the rules system or anything else, but because it's futuristic and Warhammer is Medieval fantasy. That's the main reason anyhow.

Tarrath · Post by **Tarrath** » Mon Feb 10, 2003 11:58 pm

space marines overrused? of course not. (voice dripping with sarcasm) in a recent tourney, there were a total of5 armies that weren't marines out of 12, and a total of 6 or 7 land raiders present. those reapers were verrrry useful, and i got 2nd place and a free falcon grav tank, w00t

Harlequinn · Post by **Harlequinn** » Tue Feb 11, 2003 3:52 am

Drasanil wrote:I know its harde to turn around at mi local GW and not see some space marines and its been for ever since I saw someone come in with dark eldar or sisters of battle

The small representation I have of 40K is Sisters. I think they're way cool, but I'd like to see them get a Drednaught of some type. Some big-assed mech or something. That's all I want is a bit of diversity out of them and I'd play it a bit more often.

Yith-kai · Post by **Yith-kai** » Tue Feb 11, 2003 11:01 pm

i think fantasy is too organized...40k doesnt have flanking, panic tests and all that stuff but its still fun and utilizes tactics a lot, just not as much. 40k is also a lot easier to play with cuz u can have then 2" apart rather than in a tight formation and i think fantazy armies look better when their all lined up with the cavalry in the front and all those formations, they look like (insert bad word here) when you actually try to use tactics... :roll:

Mime · Post by **Mime** » Wed Feb 12, 2003 7:02 am

I just hope your looking forward to the 1st or secound turn scrum in the middle of the table. So many of the 40K games I see start out that way.

Hardly the cause for celerbration.

I think that the main complaints against kids playing 40k is that many of their Armys look to be painted with a spray can. This does kind of bug me when an all blue, and I mean all, Space marine Dread gets dropped on your converted Wave Serpent. Maybe it's just me but I think people who take more than 30 secounds to paint a figure are a little more carefull.

And yes theres the whole every army is a Space Marine one as well.

Good luck on your change though, I just hope you enjoy it.

Mike

Danceman · Post by **Danceman** » Sat Feb 15, 2003 12:43 am

Barondesade: i play 40k and i am not a 12 year old, guess we are 2 of a kind :roll:

and your battreps are a good read so i like to see em here aswell.

No Fake: mine dark eldars have about around 70+ of just warriors(in my 1500pts army)

.

Human: you will hear alot "dark eldar are bad"... that i find quite an odd statement since i win alot more than i loose.

as for dark eldar they are the kings of mobility.
they got it all cept for tough and well armoured troops.