Dawn of War II

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Belial
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Dawn of War II

Post by Belial »

Well, there already is a topic on some screenshots from the game, but this is for general discussion.

So, I picked up a games magazine today. Normally I don't, because they are damn expensive. But today, there was a big, bad Blood Raven on the cover...

There was a six page article from a presentation of the game. It's still not finished, of course, but the main concepts and it's graphics were presented, and the journalists/writers were allowed to try out two levels of the singleplayer campaign.

What bugs me is this: As I read the article, at least the singleplayer campaign will not feature any base building. Instead, you have 30 or so Space Marines, all with individual names, all with individual strenghts, that has to go on a mission to save a solar system. Instead of only upgrading your commander with wargear, you can give each indivdual Marine upgrades. This is all very exciting... But where is the base building?

Another thing I noticed was that most environtment and cover can be destroyed - and that cover plays a much larger role(it was mentioned that the system was similar to Company of Heroes, but I've never played that...). That sounds really sweet to me - a much more dynamic experience.

Anyway, discuss away! And bring in new stuff when you find it!
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Post by Drainial »

So its not actualy going to be a real time stratgy game anymore then? More like an over the top RPG. Damnt.
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Post by Belial »

We-ell... It's what I read. It's going to be a mix. And they even give different pieces of wargear different colours in their names, so one can see how rare they are...
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Post by Dalamar »

It's actually going to be a real combat tactical simulation then! as opposed to repeated over and over
build base, gather resources, swarm opposition

seriously it got boring during 5th or so Command & Conquer

Try playing Myth ;) I can see this being more of an 40k instalment of Myth (awesome strategy game!) than next incarnation of C&C

Sounds all good to me :D
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Post by Jadin »

ok, so the single player campaign is going to be real time Chaos Gate? ugh
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Post by Garluch »

Do you mean "individual" like in diablo 2 or like WC3 with only heroes?
seems hard to keep track on 30 "heroes"(instead of 3 units for example) with all action going around, cover getting blown up ect.
From what ive seen graphiks own the internetz so i think this will be a killer game!
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Post by Harabec »

Sounds very much company of heros. I have only played the beginning missions on CoH on a friends computer but it was fun. Certianly not what DoW is currently though.

I know in CoH it was highly dependant on on getting your men in cover and flanking enemy positions. There was no true base building, but you could capture supply points and build look outs which cave you ammo and requistion points much like the current req/power. Ammo is obvious and allowed your men to resupply their weapons, while req could be spent on paratrooping reinformcements, land mines, sandbags, etc.

If they follow this pattern it would definetely be more combat sim in which you still had to capture battlefield objectives but you would have no full base building. Will still be an awesome game then, but not what we are accustomed to with the DoW series.


Garluch wrote:seems hard to keep track on 30 "heroes"(instead of 3 units for example) with all action going around, cover getting blown up ect.


While I know in CoH you can group men into squads that makes things easier but the squads are mutable. As in you can take the 2 guys with the heavy machine gun and split them off to set up a crossfire, while the rest of the squad stays in place.
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Post by Garluch »

Garluch said:
seems hard to keep track on 30 "heroes"(instead of 3 units for example) with all action going around, cover getting blown up ect.




While I know in CoH you can group men into squads that makes things easier but the squads are mutable. As in you can take the 2 guys with the heavy machine gun and split them off to set up a crossfire, while the rest of the squad stays in place.

Ok, Ive never played CoH, maby i will try and see for my self what you mean...
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Post by Archdukechocula »

If it is anything like company of heroes, it will be badass. Company of Heroes was vastly superior to Dawn of War as a strategy game. I think it is amongst the 5 best RTS ever. I don't understand why it didn't become more popular. Probably because of the learning curve versus the AI. If DoW 2 is like it, I will buy it in a heartbeat.

Harabec wrote:I know in CoH it was highly dependant on on getting your men in cover and flanking enemy positions. There was no true base building, but you could capture supply points and build look outs which cave you ammo and requistion points much like the current req/power. Ammo is obvious and allowed your men to resupply their weapons, while req could be spent on paratrooping reinformcements, land mines, sandbags, etc.


There was base building. You had to build up a base to get access to new unit types as well as a few special unit upgrades. How you branched your base building was fairly important to the mid game.

While I know in CoH you can group men into squads that makes things easier but the squads are mutable. As in you can take the 2 guys with the heavy machine gun and split them off to set up a crossfire, while the rest of the squad stays in place.


Your squads were set in size (you couldn't combine squads into one larger squad for example), but guys could die in a squad, and could also be reinforced back to original strength. Death affected fighting ability. Squads of infantry could pick up heavy weapons, at which point a squad would split into two seperate squad types (for example, a full strength infantry unit would become an infantry unit and a mortar unit if you tell them to pick up a mortar, but would become a mortar team if they had only three guys). This was one of the many dynamic features of the game. Cover was also pretty damn important, as was the use of choke points. Infantry get creamed against tanks in the open field, but in the middle of a city, or with enough cover, infantry with anti tank weapons stood a chance.

The whole game was just amazingly structured. The thing that really blew me away about it was that it was decidedly not a rock paper scissors RTS. It was a RTS that was almost entirely situational and tactical (although there is a very important strategic element as well, to be sure). The whole game was predicated upon you being clever in the moment, and utilizing your surroundings to maximum effect. It was brilliantly executed, fast paced, and fun as hell. if you were tricky enough you could come back from the brink of defeat just because of how you used your units. This was not a game of outproducing your opponent, or getting the right tech tree fastest. Too bad everyone I played against sucked badly. I loved that game.
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Post by Aginor26 »

as you said this could be the campaign system. Maybe you get base building in later levels of the campaign, multiplayer, or skirmish modes.
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Post by Cenyu »

If Dawn of War II is anything like Kill Team or Jagged Alliance I am indeed looking forward to it. RPG aspects ftw.
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Post by Aginor26 »

I just watched a teaser trailer...gave me the chills. Cant wait :D
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Post by Dalamar »

The one with Daemon Hunter Marine acting like he's Eldar Harlequinn? I don't like it :P
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Post by Aginor26 »

No, the one with a space marine force commander kicking the crap out of big big meck
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Post by Dalamar »

Yeah it's the same one, that's Daemon Hammer he's wielding so it's daemon hunter for me doesn't matter his real title, and he's kicking crap out of warboss.
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Post by Alex c »

Sounds interesting. A few Marines that develop individually seems a lot more plausible than dropping factories onto a planet and churning out a Chapter's worth of marines to die in a meat grinder.

And if the cover and destructible terrain works like CoH, I'm sold.

Maybe base building will be in Skirmish or something. I can't imagine playing as Orks and having 100 Grots developing their own unique skill sets.

Unless it restricts you to playing only as Marines :? That would suck...
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Post by Rork »

Alex C wrote:Unless it restricts you to playing only as Marines :? That would suck...


If there's a narrative campaign, I'd expect it to be just like DoW and CoH. The single player campaign only allows you to be a single race, but the multiplayer (and subsequent single player expansions) will allow you to use other races.

That seems to be Relic's modus operandi.
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Post by Lord of indecision »

crosses fingers*

please no tyranids...

pleasse no tyranids...

that would ruin the squad-based combat which I am so looking forward to...

please no tyranids...

(don't get me wrong, I love the tyranid mod for DOW, but it just wouldn't fit the way their telling us DOW II is going to be)
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Post by Dalamar »

They said they can't include Tyranids in DoW I because of the game's mechanics not working with how tyranids should be (no idea how that works but meh) and they will make an appearance in DoW II
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Post by Mr_piechee »

i never understood why nids didn't make an appearance in DOW, they would have been awesome! will be good to see them in DoW II. Indecision, there not going to add something that ruins the game (although its been done many times before). not sure how you think its going to ruin it though.
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Post by Izirath »

Dalamar wrote:They said they can't include Tyranids in DoW I because of the game's mechanics not working with how tyranids should be (no idea how that works but meh) and they will make an appearance in DoW II


You buy upgrades for each unit, and there is about at least 20 upgrades.. You buy upgrades for EVERY unit, HQ too.
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Post by Gnosis »

Rork wrote:
Alex C wrote:Unless it restricts you to playing only as Marines :? That would suck...


If there's a narrative campaign, I'd expect it to be just like DoW and CoH. The single player campaign only allows you to be a single race, but the multiplayer (and subsequent single player expansions) will allow you to use other races.

That seems to be Relic's modus operandi.

Thank God that CoH's campaign was a vast improvement on the single player campaign of the original DOW, for I thought the latter downright terrible.
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Post by Dalamar »

Every unit in DoW can have around 5-6 upgrades... I don't see that stopping Tyranids.
I believe it was something about them not having vehicles... but they could use the vehicle count for monstrous creatures...
meh.
I'm not the developer there won't act like I know how tyranids don't fit the engine :P
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Post by Izirath »

I want Tyranids in there. They are awesome! :O Of course they could fit them, it's not hard ffs. Not having vechiles? Well it's just like Dalamar says, isn't a Carnifex big enough for them?
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Post by Gnosis »

I myself would certainly like Imperial Guard in there. Masses of grunts won't be possible, but a hard-as-nails Stormtrooper or Kasrkin force would still have that typical underdog feel.

I'll be content with a good Eldar selection, though. No vehicles means they'll have the room needed to cram in every Aspect.
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