GW on the rampage again

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Demetrius
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GW on the rampage again

Post by Demetrius »

I wasn't sure where to post this, so I just put it here. This is an article from table top gaming news. I encourage all to read, feel free to comment.

"Games Workshop threaten release of new Blood Bowl rules
According to a thread on the TalkFantasyFootball forum, Games Workshop have threatened to halt the release of the sixth edition of the Blood Bowl Living Rulebook if competing figure manufacturers advertise miniatures to be used as Blood Bowl Star Players.

From their website:

Games Workshop is concerned about the number of fantasy football miniature companies now showing up in the world. GW has also noted that several of the Star Players do not have official figures. They have agreed to allow them in at this time … however over the coming weeks (perhaps months) they do not want to see discussions (or worse released figures) from other miniatures companies about creating figures to fill in for missing star players. Miniatures released by any company should not be marketed online as being a great figure for such and such BB Star Players.

It was made very clear today that if GW sees such marketing happening … they will pull the LRB 6.0 (or modify it before it is officially posted) and remove all star players from the document that do not have an official BB figure effectively deleting the rules for that player from the game (and since LRB 6.0 will be the offical rules for many years to come … this will be a serious deletion). So not only would this erase all the LRB 6.0 stars added to balance out the game and team’s inducements. But many LRB 5.0 stars (Ramtut, Zara, Hemlock, Helmet, Ugroth, Spleenripper, etc. etc) would be deleted from the rulebook as well."
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Post by Kargan daemonclaw »

What you mean GW are sticking up for their Intellectual Porperty again?

Good on them.

Blood Bowl is their game and if other companies want to market fantasy football models they should make up their own game and rules.


Alternatively make the models generic but you should nto be able to market a figure as good for a specific model released for a GW game.
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Post by Layne »

Of course, it is their own bluggeny fault for not making up said minis. Of course they should stick up for their IP, but another way to go about it might be to, say, for instance, make use of said IP.
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Post by Sulla »

So what's the problem with what they have done here? Or are we just bashing them for the sake of it?
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Post by Kinslayer »

I think the point of the thread is just to say

'Dont support other model manufacturers "Bloodbowl" models or we may not get the LRB #6'


Which is fair enough. I don't buy models elsewhere anyway.
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Post by Dalamar »

They basically said "fair enough, make models for our game, but don't advertise them as such"
Which, considering GWs history is much better than could be expected.

So now instead of "Skitterbite, fantastic star skaven player in Blood Bowl"
We'll now have "Skittergnaw, fantastic ratman player in fantasy football"
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Post by Arquinsiel »

They've been cracking down on all Bloodbowl related IP in the last while. Sales of Cyanide's game have been a bit shoddy and they're trying to drum up custom by preventing other methods of play being used. It's less than pleasant but it's just GW being GW. They have done worse.
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Post by Layne »

I don't bash them, I merely put it to them that the chief problem here is gaps in their own use of their IP, and hey GW, you're what, thirty years old now, you ought to know how Nature feels about vacuums? Some people use roach bombs, other people clean their kitchen.
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Post by Vesidel »

I think it's hilarious that GW is trying to punish their customers and competitors by not selling their own product!

What complete moron in GW decided "People are making money off our products! Let's stop selling stuff. That will show them!"?

Next GW will be pissed off that gamers are using non GW glues and brushes so they'll stop selling figures alltogether!
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Post by Dyvim tvar »

Dalamar wrote:They basically said "fair enough, make models for our game, but don't advertise them as such"


Exactly.

A similar situation would be if an alternative miniatures company started selling a generic "Dark Elf Queen" or some such, who just happens to be riding on a winged beast with the body of a lion and a barbed tail, then GW couldn't do anything about it. But if the manufacturer instead marketed
a model called "Crone Hellebron" and marketed it specifically for use in Warhammer Fantasy, GW would be well within its rights to put a stop to that.


That being said, GW is on a big IP-related campaign right now, and some of it is definitely ham-handed and over reaching. For example, GW has gone after the Librarium Online and their website logo. Although that site sucks IMO, their logo really could not be confused at all with the double-headed imperial eagle as GW claims.
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Post by Kinslayer »

I think the point people are trying to make is, "If GW actually had models for each Blood Bowl team and special player, and for each Warhammer or 40k Character and unit, then there would be no need for other companies to make 'interpretations' of these units."


GW: "Hey, that company are making a model that looks like Crone Hellebron. Let's try and sue them, or threaten to remove the rules for Crone if people are using it"

No, GW, bless your little efforts. MAKE A GODDAM CRONE MODEL YOURSELF!
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Post by Dyvim tvar »

Kinslayer wrote:GW: "Hey, that company are making a model that looks like Crone Hellebron. Let's try and sue them, or threaten to remove the rules for Crone if people are using it"


You miss my point. GW isn't threatening to sue because somebody is making a model that just looks like something that GW makes rules for. GW is threatening to sue sue because somebody is specifically marketing a model to serve as something that GW has rules for.

Again, the problem is in the marketing and in the use of GW trademarks in that marketing.
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Post by Kinslayer »

Dyvim Tvar wrote:
Kinslayer wrote:GW: "Hey, that company are making a model that looks like Crone Hellebron. Let's try and sue them, or threaten to remove the rules for Crone if people are using it"


You miss my point. GW isn't threatening to sue because somebody is making a model that just looks like something that GW makes rules for. GW is threatening to sue sue because somebody is specifically marketing a model to serve as something that GW has rules for.

Again, the problem is in the marketing and in the use of GW trademarks in that marketing.



Wherein the solution is still the same. If GW had models for everything in their games, which let's be honest after 30 years and a fanbase this vast they should have easily achieved by now, other companies would be a lot less likely to market a model as a GW alternative.

The majority of people will use GW models over non-GW models because they can take these to GW stores and tournaments, find GW painting guides on them, etc etc. They will, however, turn to alternative models marketed as GW replacements when GW has no model in the first place.

Sure, some people will use non-GW models anyway, but at the moment GW are just asking for it.
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Post by Rork »

Dyvim Tvar wrote:For example, GW has gone after the Librarium Online and their website logo. Although that site sucks IMO, their logo really could not be confused at all with the double-headed imperial eagle as GW claims.


*Puts on LO Supervisor hat*

Well, it wasn't just the logo. LO was also selling LO branded stuff, and the logo did include the Imperial Eagle.

And I won't hold it against you, Dyvim :P.
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Post by Kinslayer »

Another way to put my point across is this. If I was going to start up a wargaming model company which only made models and not actual rules, I would instinctively look into other games I could make substitutes for. Seeing GW as popular as it is and with such great rifts in the model ranges there, it would be a no brainer to market my own minatures as alternatives.

Obviously I may still market my models as GW alternatives were their model range actually complete, but I'd be a lot less inclined to do so as GW fans would be less inclined to buy my models over theirs.

Quite why nobody at GW can come up with these sort of ideas both baffles and amuses me.
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Post by Dyvim tvar »

Kinslayer wrote:If I was going to start up a wargaming model company which only made models and not actual rules, I would instinctively look into other games I could make substitutes for. Seeing GW as popular as it is and with such great rifts in the model ranges there, it would be a no brainer to market my own minatures as alternatives.


It may be a no-brainer to you, but it's one that would walk you into a heap of legal trouble. Again, it's not a problem to make and market generic fantasy models. But it's a whole different things to market them specifically for use in somebody else's game, regardless of whether or not the model range for that game is complete.

Rork wrote:Well, it wasn't just the logo. LO was also selling LO branded stuff, and the logo did include the Imperial Eagle.


But I looked at the stuff they were selling, and from what I saw, it did not include the Imperial Eagle, and that's exactly what I have a problem with. Unless I am missing something, LO was selling stuff with the LO logo on it, and no reasonable person could confuse the LO logo with the Imperial Eagle.

By the way Rork -- I didn't realize you had any involvement with LO. My issue withe site is I think it is hard to read and navigate. Not very user-friendly in my book.
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Post by Layne »

Dyvim and Kinslayer - you are of course both correct. GW has every right to fix their IP problem with Lawhammer, but they could also do it by filling their own niche. I suppose they paid an actuary to work out which course would be most cost effective, and he waved his hand over his eyes, opened the envelope, and said "Law!" I do wonder if he factored in the damage to their reputation that such actions do in the eyes of their customers? Whatever their rights may be, it is an unpleasant business.
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Post by Kargan daemonclaw »

Layne, I think they paid an accountant to work out which would be better to allocate their finite studio resources towards. Making BB special characters that might sell in their thousands or core game figures that will sell in their millions.

If the development costs are similar it's much more profitable to invest in their core games and look to develop BB figures in the future when the company is more profitable.

What GW are doing isn't any different to George Lucas going after an author for writing a star wars book or an unlicenced range of Star Wars models. There is nothing wrong with making "Robed Warrior monk with energy weapon" but making a model "Mace Windu Jedi Knight with light Sabre" would likely get you sued by Samuel Jackson's lawyers as well as George Lucas's.

Protecting their IP is something GW have to protect each and every time or they risk losing control over it.

What would you rather GW did, forbit other manufactures from making models for their game or only release rules for models GW make?
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Post by Layne »

They already do both ; they won't allow other manufacturers to use their trademarks and such, fair enough; they won't allow gamers to use other manufacturer's models in their shops or events ; fair enough. I suggest that they could also stand to make models for everything they have rules for. Not that they are wrong, but that they could stand to be a bit more right.

To answer another question you ask ; since core figures that sell in millions are currently being turned over into plastic, and BB characters would almost certainly be pewter, you may take it that development costs for said core troop models will be much much higher.
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Caveat Numptor.


Karonath - WS6 / S4 / T4 / D5 / I3
Equipment: Bloodfeather, heavy armour, helm, Sea Dragon Cloak, rope x 2, month rations x 2
Inventory: longspear, 2 short swords, glaive, winter gear, shade cloak,
Mount: Dark Steed (Shiny), talisman of kurnous
Gold: 2294
Skills: Ambidexterity, Controlled Frenzy, Basic Ride, Drukh Kaganth
Class: Khainite
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Post by Vesidel »

I think people are missing some valuable content in the original post.

GW isn't threatening to sue someone for mooching off of their IP. They are threatening to not sell a new edition of the rules to their customers. They are threatening us because we can't buy figures that they don't sell!
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