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Can playing Dark Elves turn us EVIL?! 
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http://www.theguardian.com/books/shortcuts/2014/feb/11/voldemort-harry-potter-gaming-avatars-evil

Discuss.

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Tue Feb 11, 2014 6:54 pm
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Well after having to get a letter from my mother whilst at school to allow me to play roleplay games and warhammer, because the head teacher thought they were akin to devil worship (this was 20+ years ago). I am already probably damned, so why not play an evil race...

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Tue Feb 11, 2014 7:39 pm
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Despite always playing villains and anti-heroes in my RPGs... I can't for some reason stop being a damn nice guy in life... It often kicks me in the butt and I just wish I could be a little bit more evil. Sadly no amount of character immersion has made me evil yet :(

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Tue Feb 11, 2014 7:44 pm
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I'm not nice on purpose exactly. Proper manners & the like were instilled early on coupled with the fact that I'm a generally laid back guy I'm pretty trusting & believe that everyone is inherently good (till proven otherwise).

So far as the armies I choose:

Fantasy:
Bretonnians;
Dark Elves;
Slaaneshi Daemons.

40K:
Adepta Sororitas;
Krieg IG;
Inquisition;
Slaaneshi Daemons.

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Tue Feb 11, 2014 8:09 pm
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Short answer: No. Next question.

Long answer: Of course there's going to be a brief period, after you fully immerse yourself in a character, where you'll be thinking "what would that character do/act like in this situation?" It's a big stretch to say that it'll make you evil. In everyday life, I am required to be scrupulously honest and law-abiding for my job, so yes, there's some fantasy-relief in collecting GW Dark Elves and Inquisition models. However, I'm not going to order Exterminatus on someone (metaphorically speaking) simply because I've been playing a game.

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Tue Feb 11, 2014 8:20 pm
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Haagrum wrote:
.... However, I'm not going to order Exterminatus on someone (metaphorically speaking) simply because I've been playing a game.

Would it cross your mind?

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Tue Feb 11, 2014 8:29 pm
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An inspiring novel with strong characters can certainly inspire you. When I was giving birth, I was inspired by the line from the Malus Darkblade novels, "In pain there is life... in darkness, eternal strength." It helped me psych up for event.

No, baby did not go on to join the Temple of Khaine. !lol!

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Tue Feb 11, 2014 9:06 pm
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Can playing Dark Elves turn us Evil?
The short answer: yes.
The long answer: Yeaasssss...

Try not to look at the mind as a rational thing but as a neurological network. Info that comes in, gets processed and something comes out. To believe that info "A" gets in, thus "A" must come out is to absolutely neglect the nature of the neurological network which means that the information is processed. So IMO thinking A -> A is completely absurd, short-sighted, fear induced logic of a gimped mind that seeks to neglect facts in hopes to highlight correlations. One could just as well reason that water makes us mass murderers, because all mass murderers drank water and consisted, physically, mostly of water. The experiments are often designed to lead to correlations rather than honest measures in a neutral environment. Is it done in a lab? Then it's not a neutral environment.

However, thinking we are not influenced by the information we get as input... is making the same mistake: neglecting that the information we receive -has- to be processed and will eventually influence and shape our mind.
What the outcome is, is hard to tell. In theory, it could just as well inspire us to a new recipe for pudding than it is to violence.

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Tue Feb 11, 2014 9:22 pm
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I find that I make my dark elves more evil, not the other way around.

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Wed Feb 12, 2014 4:09 pm
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Nightcall wrote:
An inspiring novel with strong characters can certainly inspire you. When I was giving birth, I was inspired by the line from the Malus Darkblade novels, "In pain there is life... in darkness, eternal strength." It helped me psych up for event.

No, baby did not go on to join the Temple of Khaine. !lol!


Wow. That's a quote and a half, Nightcall!

Congratulations on your new Malus' inspired arrival :D

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Well after having to get a letter from my mother whilst at school to allow me to play roleplay games and warhammer, because the head teacher thought they were akin to devil worship (this was 20+ years ago). I am already probably damned, so why not play an evil race...


Reminds me of:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ocFxQjPeyiY


Quote:
I find that I make my dark elves more evil, not the other way around.


I like the way you think, Mango :twisted:

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Wed Feb 12, 2014 4:37 pm
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Define evil. From the dark elf perspective they aren't evil at all. They are just getting their own back after being screwed over for so long.

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Wed Feb 12, 2014 8:30 pm
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The more I study Dark Elves, the less I find them evil.
Stockholm syndrome?

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Wed Feb 12, 2014 8:39 pm
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My mate used to say that druchii was fluffwise the most fitting army for my playstyle. Supposedly when it comes down to games of any kind i can be a devious, treacherous and manipulative bastard. Which is probably why nobody trust me enough anymore to even team up with me in a game of game of thrones for a couple of turns , they know that knife in their back is comming at some point so they all try to eradicate me as soon as possible.
Funny thing is i don't even really care that much about winning, as long as most of my little plans work out and i manage to upset my opponents enough, i'm pleased.

In real life... Not so much..Welllll maybe a bit manipulative but not treacherous by any means. :twisted:

Quote:
because the head teacher thought they were akin to devil worship (this was 20+ years ago)


Wait, What?

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Thu Feb 13, 2014 8:07 am
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Ooh, I could write a whole article about this. :mrgreen: But let's not do that right now.

In general, I'd say: "no, don't be ridiculous." If anything, playing 'evil' characters has made me more aware of ethical implications and ambiguity in my own culture and reasoning, and more sensitive to the views of others. In a classical sense, this makes me a more considerate person (an on-going process).

For people more comfortable in thinking of ethics and morality in absolutes, however, this is a step to 'flexible' ethics, their slippery slope to evil. There's something to say for the viewpoint, but I disagree with it.

Amboadine wrote:
Well after having to get a letter from my mother whilst at school to allow me to play roleplay games and warhammer, because the head teacher thought they were akin to devil worship (this was 20+ years ago).

Aah, the eighties. I miss ye not.

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Thu Feb 13, 2014 4:05 pm
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"Tarbo"Aah, the eighties. I miss ye not.


Indeed so. Some very strange times were had

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Thu Feb 13, 2014 7:19 pm
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I will have to go with "yes" being a dark elf player since 1996 i'm a completely depraved and inhuman monster. I read Machiavelli and think "amateur" and I hit my three year old daughter daily, just so that she can become a proper example too. Once she's old enough i'm going to replace my fiancé with her naturally.

Of course, I could just turn to Jesus and be saved, here is a guide that I always find and post whenever people put out questions like these, I present to you the comic from Jack Chick, dark dungoens: http://www.chick.com/reading/tracts/0046/0046_01.ASP

Now, it would not be right for me to confess all this, without first warning you my brothers and sisters, of an evil greater evil, namely Ralph Fiennes who portrayed Voldemort, and look! He also played that evil german nazi in Schindlers list. Therefore this must be a truly evil man (and the work he does for UNICEF is really just an elaborate ruse)

Jokes aside (and I really wish that the comic above was an ironic jab at fundamentalism) no, you cannot be turned evil by playing dark elves, this is'nt even RP. this is pushing around dolls on a tabletop. If you could become "evil" by that then what about the people who play wargames that involve WW2? Are anyone playing the germans evil? Or what if you play battlefield 1942 and you fly around in your Stuka, are you now evil?

I admit to having had fun writing this reply though :P

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Thu Feb 20, 2014 4:33 am
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Sounds to me someone is just setting up a insanity defense.
or
If I had a nose like that I'd be nasty too.

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Thu Feb 20, 2014 9:09 am
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Ruerl khan wrote:
If you could become "evil" by that then what about the people who play wargames that involve WW2? Are anyone playing the germans evil? Or what if you play battlefield 1942 and you fly around in your Stuka, are you now evil?

How do you think Hitler became how he became! Tin soldiers! !eek!

Seriously though, you don't get evil by playing an evil race in a miniature game. You don't become evil by RPing an evil character either. Computer games doesn't make people more violent either, and nor do movies...

The only relation these things have is that a violent person might be more interested in violent games, and "evil" person might be more interested in playing an evil race.

Also, the very definition of evil is a quite broad definition... in WW2, every side did deeds that would be defined as evil. As is it in the warhammer universe, although it is much more clearer which race can be defined as evil and which is good due to the morals and beliefs in each society. The "good" side is quite evil against the "evil" side though...

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Thu Feb 20, 2014 11:19 am
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I already get enough of being called a cultist by being in a religion founded on the beleif that a country pumpkin 14 year old in the early 1800's found a golden bible in upstate New York and told by god to go make a church. Why not go with a race of antisocial sociopaths?

In all seriousness, I find there are enough motivated individuals that will do evil for the sake of evil, and using a game, book, movie, or whatever will always be an excuse for most of us. The, say 10%, of legal adults that cannot tell the difference from fiction and realty, besideds American Palaticians !mad! , tend to have something else very wrong with them and need to be treated with kid gloves or would have done it themselves.

The Spanish Inquisition, Joseph Stalin, Klu Klux Klan, Osama Bin Laddin, Jeffery Dalmer, Jim Jones, Chin Emperor, George Armstrong Custard, Ivan the Terrible, Al Capone, Conquistadors, Caligula, and so on and so on have proven that people have done horrible things for melinia and humans will continue to due so until we wipe out our inner desire for cruelty or each other.

While there has to be something said about what draws people to certain forms of entertainment, me playing Dark Elves in Warhammer Fantasy Red Dragon More evil, or if I Play Skyrim or watch MMA I am no more violent then I was before. If any of this was so, then a large number women in the developed world should be masters of romance with the rom coms they watch and the romance novels with some mucle bound hunk on the cover they read, and given Dr. Suse and Golden Books, we should all be better human beings.

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Sat Feb 22, 2014 8:27 am
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With the amount of murder stories we are fed every day on TV it is quite funny to worry about becoming evil when playing at it in Warhammer or RPG's or adopting Voldie avatars.
Playing evil character usually brings some reflection on nature of evil. More evil in the world is caused by those believing themselves perfectly in the right.

PS: I have a colleague who tries to feed everyone around him chillies and he most certainly doesn't have any obsession with Voldemort.

PPS: Ruerl, that comics is hilarious. Something tells me that being capable of evil is way better than being able to believe that. Hehe.

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Sat Feb 22, 2014 7:50 pm
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Lets think of the cop dramas I can think of that involve murder, with maybe some variation or rape, arson, white callar crime, illicite drugs, human trafficing, and jaywalking mixed in every now and then?

1. The Law and Order Franchies
2. Sheild
3. COPS
4. Psych
5. Bones
6. Criminal Minds
7. CSI
8. The Following
9. Dexter
10. Monk.

All of those are either long running shows that are still on, or just ended within the last 5 years and still being shown periodicly as reruns, and all of this in about a minute.

Sports that are impact sports that are popular on TV.

1. American Foot Ball (wimpy Rugby for those outside of North America).
2. Rugby (Football without any of that wimpy body protection for most of us US lurkers).
3. Boxing
4. Wrestling/Longest Running Male oriented Soap Opera
5. Hockey
6. Mixed Martial Arts
7. Hunting
8. Roller Derby
9. Fencing
10. Water Polo

Other periodicly Violent Things on Telavition

1. News
2. Comercials
3. A Large number of programs about animals
4. Reality Telavition
5. Japanese Game Shows.
6. Disney
7. Classic Loony Toons
8. Classic Hanna Barbara
9. History
10. Jerry Springer Reruns.

Seriously, I'm a 15 minute subway trip from what America calls "Little Bagdag," I think I'm sure there are other, more prominent violent influences in life.

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Tue Feb 25, 2014 12:01 am
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Is this the 1980s, and the topic is violence in correlation to Dungeons and Dragons players? Or video games in the early 90s? Same old nonsensical garbage that has been disproven countless times. There must always be a scapegoat, I guess.

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Pfft, Dark Elves? Trying being a Khorne player for nearly 20 years.

I should be flat out decapitating people on a daily basis.

Sometimes...sometimes the temptation is there...

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Tue Apr 08, 2014 8:54 pm
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“If Pac-Man had affected us as kids, we'd all be running around in dark rooms, munching pills and listening to repetitive electronic music.” (Marcus Brigstocke, attributed to others)

As others posted before:
What made Hitler start WW2, Gengis Khan conquer several countries, start the crusades, inter christian wars ("Kill them, god will know his own", catholics versus cathars)

There have been recent murders on account of religion of several colours. Nobody wanted to ban religion. Neither one of them or the whole thing.
Political murders are common, too. Want to abolish politics, anyone?

If somebody is weak of mind there are several things that can send them over the edge.
There has been an occurence some years ago here in germany where a former pupil ran amok at a school.
It was "killer games" of course. Not the fact that he had no graduation because of some glitches in the school system or that he had difficulties getting a job or an apprenticeship.

To find the reasons for personal problems is very complex. Most of the times there are several reasons which combine. And for each of this reasons there is always somebody who does NOT want to take the blame. (As above, it is much easier to blame PC or RP games instead of the school system)

It is so much easier to put the blame on some thing rather than a person or a system. And the "thing" does not put the blame back on you.

Basically I am sick of "computer/rpg/tabletop games made him/her evil". There has been at least one study showing similarities between investment people / share traders at banks and psychopaths. Maybe we should ditch the financial system.

I have been playing rpg for close to 30 years now. I have not killed a single person, founded no religion, protected no forest, slew no dragon, rescued no damsel in distress(TM). What have I done wrong?

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Tue Apr 08, 2014 9:02 pm
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Quote:
Computer games doesn't make people more violent either, and nor do movies...


Computer games don't make people violent. Lag makes people violent :D

Quote:
In general, I'd say: "no, don't be ridiculous." If anything, playing 'evil' characters has made me more aware of ethical implications and ambiguity in my own culture and reasoning, and more sensitive to the views of others. In a classical sense, this makes me a more considerate person (an on-going process).

For people more comfortable in thinking of ethics and morality in absolutes, however, this is a step to 'flexible' ethics, their slippery slope to evil. There's something to say for the viewpoint, but I disagree with it.


This is pretty much my own views on the matter, in a more eloquent way than I am capable of right now (long day at work). You should write that essay! :D

So long as a person can distinguish between fantasy and reality, then what they play in their games is not going to induce them to embrace evil (or conversely, make them into a saint just by playing a paladin ...). They may explore what it means to be evil, how they define it and what makes evil come to be, but they know that this is an intellectual exercise or, well, a game. If a person cannot distinguish between fantasy and reality, then they have other problems quite distinct from what flavour of tiny plastic soldiers they play! :D

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Thu Apr 10, 2014 8:07 pm
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