I have made a terrible mistake.

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Wrathbaby
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I have made a terrible mistake.

Post by Wrathbaby »

Does anyone else ever find themselves thinking this? I was recently having a good long rant to a friend about every last thing that is wrong with the world, and he sent me the following video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iG9CE55wbtY

That video pretty accurately summarised the things I've been thinking and feeling since starting college, but have been unable to verbalise in any coherent manner. So, interested, I clicked around for a bit and found some other talks by this guy and stumbled upon this lovely gem: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-M8Hl5MUr8w And then I thought, "I have made a terrible mistake".

I'm currently studying chemistry, physics and maths, with an aim to studying chemistry at university next year (because it's my strongest subject, and therefore the one I find the most interesting of the three I'm studying). It's mid exam period, I'm tearing my hair out because I don't think I'm going to make the grades to meet my offer, and I have no idea why. Because I have absolutely no interest in studying chemistry. Sure, it'll increase my chances of getting a job in a field I don't really care about so that I can make money to pay off the debts I incurred at university, whilst simultaneously accumulating more debts in the form of a mortgage to buy a fairly average house in a fairly average area to live a fairly average life. But surely studying ONE subject for four years should be about more than just getting a job? I would like to be able to study a subject because I wanted to study it, and because I cared about it and found it interesting and felt good doing it.

Does anyone else ever stop and think to themselves that they would rather be doing something else and that they've allowed themselves to stumble into a routine of doing things they don't particularly care about?

After reading this back, I realise it sounds somewhat whiny and typically teenagery. I can only apologise for that, but being a whiny teenager, occasionally I have no choice but to sound like one. The point of the post was to maybe provoke some thought and discussion about the education system, the way society tends to view certain subjects (for example the heirarchy of subjects in academia, mentioned in the first of the linked videos) and so forth.
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Also here's a PLOG: http://www.druchii.net/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=76272
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Re: I have made a terrible mistake.

Post by Dalamar »

Honestly... I think you can count on fingers of one hand people who *didn't* have the same thoughts as you do.

Personally when I graduated High School my first attempt at a college degree was Geology... I had absolutely no interest in Geology but with my father being an Archaeologist, I would easily get into good and secure jobs. That failed within a year.

Then I went to study English Philology with the fancy idea that I will be translating fantasy books from English to Polish. The level of translation in Poland in atrocious. While I was taking my classes I learned the workings of a translation business... and decided that sitting 8h a day translating... is not exactly my cup of tea either. I dropped out before second year.

Then I probably did the biggest leap. I moved to another country. Like that, with barely any savings and a few friends abroad I just up and moved.
This was probably the most important decision I've ever made. I have lived and worked in a foreign country for a couple years. Eventually I moved again, to the US. Only recently I have returned to school and now at age 29 I'm in college for software design.

Over the years I spent *out* of school, I have learned more about myself and what I want from life than I have in over a decade in all kinds of schools.

As far as current education system is concerned. It's a failure. Simply put. It's a system designed in the last century to produce line workers educated just enough to know how to do their job, but not too much so they will start questioning the purpose of it. This includes all they way to the university level.

Personally, I don't believe that there's any purpose of gaining formal education if you yourself, personally, do not know what the purpose of it will be.

Your example: 4 year degree in chemistry, to get a job, to pay the student loan, to eventually get a house, so you can pay the mortgage. It's a vicious cycle that you should get out of while you can. If you enroll in college, make sure you can pay for it *without* loans. Get a job, get a degree part time. *Make sure it's something you have an idea what to do with later*

Have a job is not an idea. I want to discover new elements is an idea.

It is no shame (though society will tell you otherwise) to skip college, get a vocation. Learn carpentry (something I want to do personally at some point), then learn something completely unrelated. Be versatile. Eventually you will have an idea what you want to do with your life. You will know what you need to achieve that (and a degree might be completely irrelevant) and you will be able to create yourself a path.

To give you another example, I went for software design for the following reasons:
Coding is a language of the future. Just like at some point in history it was Latin, then French, now English. Coding will become a new universal language.
I want to develop video games. At first it was entertainment value. Now it's a combination of entertainment and education. I believe video games can be the future of education, completely revamping and casting down the current system.
I wonder if it is possible to transfer human consciousness into a computer. It will require far more knowledge than a software design degree alone will offer me, but it's a start.
I am fascinated by machines, I am hoping to take on a degree in engineering when I have finished software design.

Some of these ideas might seem crazy (especially the consciousness transfer). That's the point! The more someone tries to put your ideas down, the more worth pursuing they are.

One day I read that the best thing you can do after high school... is to travel the world for a year.
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Re: I have made a terrible mistake.

Post by Calisson »

Sorry, no time to view the video.

If you know what you want to become, and you can take up the challenge, no hesitation, become it.
But that is the case for very few youngsters. Most just don't know, or don't have the choice (not that many can become an astronaut).

If you don't know what you want to become, then education still serves two goals:
- for you, to afford a comfortable living that will allow you to enjoy your time off (i.e. earning enough money to pay for GW models).
- for the society in which you live, you will participate to the global wealth and increase global satisfaction.
For these two goals, better study what you are good at (i.e. chemistry).
Even if you don't like much your job, like millions of people, at least it pays you a living and it allows society to work.

If, during or after finishing your studies in the field where you're brilliant but do not enjoy particularly, you get the enlightment and find the job you love, go ahead.
As long as you did not find the job you love, keep the job you can do well.

On the other hand, if you find out later that the job you thought you would love (i.e. seller at GW shop) happens not to be anymore your ideal way of life, then you have nobody to blame but you - still, it was worth trying, but now accept your fate.
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Re: I have made a terrible mistake.

Post by Watchmaster »

The tech/vocational school I attended paid for itself in a couple years. I've got a great job doing things I enjoy, I have a fulfilling long term relationship, in ten years I'll own my house free and clear, and yet...

I wanted to be a writer, not a welder. My whole childhood was spent creating fantastic characters and worlds in my head, and bringing them to life was the only ambition I ever saw myself having. But paying the bills meant working, and making work bearable meant learning crafts that weren't totally mindless. Fast forward twenty years and two unrelated career paths later, and here I am, letting GW keep the embers of my imagination smoldering while I plod toward the far-off glimmer of retirement.

Point being, you're not alone in wanting more out of life than what the path you're on seems to offer. Don't get complacent! Right up until they nail down the coffin lid, it's never too late to break out the machete and start hacking a new trail for yourself. Of course, this goes for me as well.

Hmm. Once my Druchii are all painted, I think I'll fire up the word processor for a bit. Thanks, pal ;)
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Re: I have made a terrible mistake.

Post by Wrathbaby »

Dalamar, you have certainly lived an interesting life! And thank you for the reply. How did you find the experience of moving country? It's an idea that's been rolling around in my head for quite some time now, and I am definitely going to do it at some point in my life. Just not entirely sure when would be the best time to do so. Also, I share an interest in carpentry! :D I've spent a good chunk of this year looking forward to summer so that I might get a chance to learn something about it. My first priority of course will be setting up a PLOG however.

Calisson, I understand where you're coming from, and I agree that studying chemistry is likely the most practical thing I can do at the minute, but the thought of spending my life doing something I don't enjoy, hoping that at some point I find a job I am very interested in. And I think you are very correct about very few people knowing what they want to do. I have very few friends that have any idea about what their plans are for after university. For some time I did consider just dropping out of college and going to work for GW, but after stopping and considering what it would be like to work for them, I decided it may be best to steer well clear of that path. Not sure I could cope with so many screaming children every weekend !lol!

Watchmaster, I think you may well be correct about carving out a new trail for myself. Just not entirely sure where I would like that trail to go at the minute !lol! Glad to see you've been inspired to get writing again though! :D

I think a major problem I'm facing is that one of my main interests is music, but I realise that music is a painfully unreliable industry and you don't just walk into a building, hand in a CV and then get employed as a musician. Unless you're a teacher. But teaching suffers the same downside as being a GW employee, screaming children.
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Also here's a PLOG: http://www.druchii.net/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=76272
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Re: I have made a terrible mistake.

Post by Dalamar »

Moving countries was the best thing that ever happened to me and I'm thankful I had friends who invited me to stay with them for a couple months (we've since had a falling out but it doesn't lessen my gratitude in any way).

But don't get me wrong. It was tough. I've been grabbing what jobs I could and the longest duration ones were through people I met. Only really had one long term job through an application and no contacts. That's the idea though, you will encounter tough situations and each one will teach you something new, something no school can ever offer. I'm sure Calisson has plenty of stories from his sailing days.

When it comes to music... Well you have to be good to make a living out of it, but you don't have to be good to enjoy it and make some extra money on the side. Record something and paste it on iTunes. This is how new game developers get their name out there these days too, through social media and internet.
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Re: I have made a terrible mistake.

Post by Lord Drakon »

I also have a long story, but to make it short, here my conclusion

You want to work with music, but society or others expect you to do chemistry because you are good in it but not interested. 'They' want to have an average study, average work, averige life but you can do better. But the most important things to achieve that is : balls !

Just frig it, make a plan, travel with a purpose (making music?) and let yourself be inspired by the world so you can inspire the world later on. Most important thing is that you remain rational and strategic, everything should have a sort of purpose for yourself. It is very likely that while you are discovering yourself while travelling and making music and discover your other ambitions or qualities, so music is just the start.

You already say it yourself:
"think a major problem I'm facing is that one of my main interests is music, but I realise that music is a painfully unreliable industry and you don't just walk into a building, hand in a CV and then get employed as a musician. Unless you're a teacher. But teaching suffers the same downside as being a GW employee, screaming children.""


Conclusion: so do not focus on building a CV, focus on improving your skills by practice, create a youtube-channel and promote your stuff so others like and share it. Most important of all when you want to become a musician, you need connections, good image (not the same as looks) a manager and a personal style which make you different from the others.

The only problem most have is the lack of 'balls' to just do it. But it is possible for sure !

Good luck
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Re: I have made a terrible mistake.

Post by Dalamar »

Just to add one more thing.

Full time job is a trap. It's a trap vast majority of us (myself included) fall into. When you work 8 hours a day in a job you don't love, you come home exhausted. It leaves you little time to do what you actually enjoy.

Take advantage of not having to worry about the well being of your family just yet and don't jump right into full time anything.

Dabble. Try a little bit of everything. Do some reaserch on the new job every day idea where people travel around the world, working somewhere else every day for a year. After that you will have 365 jobs behind you and an idea of who you are and what you enjoy.

Until you settle down for good, don't even look for a full time job. Just work enough to supoort yourself and explore your possibilities.
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Re: I have made a terrible mistake.

Post by T.D. »

^^Good posts, gentlemen.

Well done Wrathbaby -- you've gotten better life advice out of a Dark Elf forum than you are likely to get elsewhere on t'internet :P

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Re: I have made a terrible mistake.

Post by Haagrum »

One other suggestion (having not watched the video) - don't put pressure on yourself to have your future planned out already. Most people don't know at 20 what they want to do for the rest of their lives. At 30, most people either still don't know, or have a very different answer to the ones they might have offered at 20.

I second Dalamar's and Lord Drakon's advice on saying "why not?" for a few years, and not forcing yourself to have a plan for the next 10-20 years. Responsibility will come knocking on your door in time, there's no need to give it your address now.

Also... if there's something that you just flat-out need in your life or to be doing (especially if it's not your job), which in this case might be your music, don't give up on it. You don't need to have everything figured out, but having a few goals to work towards is never a bad idea. It gives you something to strive for, a reason to make the time to pursue the things you really want.

And now, a boring old man story to back that last point up (feel free to skip the rest of this post):
In high school, I always wanted to be a lawyer. I (narrowly) didn't get the marks. I went off to study criminology instead, hoping to make the jump. I never did. I spent most of my 20s avoiding getting a 9-to-5 job by teaching at a university or working in government, without any real direction or idea of what I wanted to do. I managed to not think about it for the better part of a decade until, at 28, I was forced to take stock of my life because I'd lost the things I'd thought I wanted (i.e. job satisfaction and a woman I thought I was going to marry).

That was six years ago. Since then, I've travelled and worked overseas - going to London in the middle of the global financial crash probably wasn't the wisest idea, but I made it work and had a brilliant time into the bargain. I came home, finally did my law degree, landed a job at a big firm, met my partner and started a family. I wouldn't trade what I have now for anything, but there's no way I'd have foreseen my current situation when I was 18.

Professionally, I still don't know exactly what I want. I think I'd like to go into maritime law or become a barrister. In my personal life, I have a few good ideas. There are far worse places to be than enjoying life without a high-paying job, and few worse places than the soul-grinding drudgery of staying in a job you hate just because it pays well.
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Re: I have made a terrible mistake.

Post by Calisson »

Much more important than professional life is family life.
As Dalamar suspects, I do have plenty of stories from my sailing days, and much more. What I've done professionally is enough already to be satisfied with a life well fulfilled, what I keep doing is just extra bonus.
Fantastic life, but even more fantastic is to have grown four kids who enjoy their own life, and to live a great family life with wife.
What helped to achieve this success was the spirit, more than the wealth. But having the luxury to be able to afford our life was nevertheless very useful.

Until you start a family, the most precious you have is your spirit.
The best is to set yourself a goal, and if no goal is obvious, then your goal should be to improve yourself in what you're doing good.


I like to say, when facing a problem, there are two kinds of people:
- those who sit down and cry
- those who stand up and proceed on.
Decision is yours to take.
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Re: I have made a terrible mistake.

Post by Amboadine »

Like others here, I had no idea on my projected life journey as I started university. I was all intent on starting and finishing a degree in architecture, however having a brief epiphany after the first term, decided that it really wasn't what I wanted to spend my life doing, so I changed course to something that I actually enjoyed, rather than something that was percieved as a good career choice. Having completed my degree in Natural science, I still had no idea what I wanted to do with my life, and found myself working part time in a bowling alley as a stop gap measure, actually turned out to be a defining moment in my life, as it is there that I meet my wife and as a result my two daughters. During that time, I also found myself travelling around Asia and Europe, working abraod in Greece for a time.

Once I returned to England, to settle down, I fell into a job with my current employer on the south coast, however ten years in and numerous promotions gave me the opportunity to relocate hundreds of miles from where I had always seen as my home to the north east. Again the best decision of my life, I found a whole new social environment, financial security, a job I love and have never been happier.

Sometimes life throws you unexpected opportunities that you need to take, as others have already suggested, do not be afraid to work abroad, or relocate to a new area. You do not need a life plan from day one, if I had followed the path I had originally laid out for myself, I could be happier possibly, but in all likelihood I would be doing something I did not enjoy, and never really moved away from my small location area of existence.
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Re: I have made a terrible mistake.

Post by T.D. »

Calisson wrote:Until you start a family, the most precious you have is your spirit.


QFT :D
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Re: I have made a terrible mistake.

Post by Calisson »

My son's philosophy: find what you have fun doing, and try to get paid to do it.
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Re: I have made a terrible mistake.

Post by Dalamar »

Calisson wrote:My son's philosophy: find what you have fun doing, and try to get paid to do it.


Man, I wish those sleep studies paid enough to make a living.
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Re: I have made a terrible mistake.

Post by Wrathbaby »

Apologies for my several day silence, exams came down on me like purple sun on a gutstar. I am however very thankful for the discussion and advice. I would write a big long detailed response, but my four biggest exams are coming up next week and I should probably revise, so a thank you will have to do for now.

Also, Amboadine, you're in the North East? :o Don't suppose you're anywhere close to Middlesbrough?
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Also here's a PLOG: http://www.druchii.net/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=76272
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Re: I have made a terrible mistake.

Post by Amboadine »

Wrathbaby wrote:Apologies for my several day silence, exams came down on me like purple sun on a gutstar. I am however very thankful for the discussion and advice. I would write a big long detailed response, but my four biggest exams are coming up next week and I should probably revise, so a thank you will have to do for now.

Also, Amboadine, you're in the North East? :o Don't suppose you're anywhere close to Middlesbrough?



Currently based in Newcastle, so not too far really if you want a D.net game some time once your exams are done.
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Re: I have made a terrible mistake.

Post by Daeron »

I like the first video, and saw it before. It's a good video, but part of me feels that passion is overrated. Passion is not a pinata that, if you beat it the right way, will shower you with gold and spiritual wealth. It can make you feel like Superman. It doesn't actually change you into Superman. I dislike the obsession on having to be passionate and happy all the time. Simply put: why did I fall madly in love with my wife? Because I wasn't in love already (and she is amazing).

About the studies, I can give only one tip: stick with the program and finish them. If you really need reasons for it, I'd gladly invite you over for a beer. I know a bunch of scientists who could bombard you with more reasons than you have course material. Yet all of them had moments where they doubted their studies, future or their life. Because that's part of life, whatever life you choose.
Unless you feel that those studies are taking you away from your dream, finish them.

EDIT: and if you are still plagued by these questions (too much) after you finished the studies, then travel the world and scrape a living out of temporary jobs wherever you go while your youth still permits you to live off cheap bread and a dusty matrass. Before you try the responsible life, live a free life. See things. Do things. You'll find an answer.
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Re: I have made a terrible mistake.

Post by Watchmaster »

A lot of great advice and stories here, folks. I am honored to be in such astute company!

As far as my own mistakes go, the ones that seemed catastrophic to me at the time turned out to be blessings down the road. I got married early to someone I was head over heels in love with, and it turned into a nightmare- personally, socially, and financially- before I managed to escape. I still wouldn't trade the experience for anything. Everything that's gone right for me in relationships since then I attribute to what I learned during "The Time of Darkness".

When I was in trade school, I had a shot at an interview with the company I work for now. One wrong answer to a simple question got me booted from the hiring process, and it was years before I managed to work my way back. That mistake cost me a lot of seniority in our union (which determines who gets better work, who gets laid off, etc.) But while I was kicking myself over that screw-up back at my tree removal job, a young single mother who worked in the horticulture department asked me on a date, and that ended up changing my life in far better ways. Never would have happened if I had aced that interview!

I'd say the killer mistakes are the little ones that do their damage over time. Bad habits, complacency, laziness, procrastination... There's negative patterns in people's behavior that harm them far more than the obvious calamitous decisions. I say this to remind myself more than anyone else; if procrastination was a science, I'd have a PhD :|
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Re: I have made a terrible mistake.

Post by ironsides2 »

Wrathbaby wrote:I'm currently studying chemistry, physics and maths, with an aim to studying chemistry at university next year (because it's my strongest subject, and therefore the one I find the most interesting of the three I'm studying). It's mid exam period, I'm tearing my hair out because I don't think I'm going to make the grades to meet my offer, and I have no idea why. Because I have absolutely no interest in studying chemistry. Sure, it'll increase my chances of getting a job in a field I don't really care about so that I can make money to pay off the debts I incurred at university, whilst simultaneously accumulating more debts in the form of a mortgage to buy a fairly average house in a fairly average area to live a fairly average life. But surely studying ONE subject for four years should be about more than just getting a job? I would like to be able to study a subject because I wanted to study it, and because I cared about it and found it interesting and felt good doing it.

Does anyone else ever stop and think to themselves that they would rather be doing something else and that they've allowed themselves to stumble into a routine of doing things they don't particularly care about?

After reading this back, I realise it sounds somewhat whiny and typically teenagery. I can only apologise for that, but being a whiny teenager, occasionally I have no choice but to sound like one. The point of the post was to maybe provoke some thought and discussion about the education system, the way society tends to view certain subjects (for example the heirarchy of subjects in academia, mentioned in the first of the linked videos) and so forth.


If you haven't started University yet, relax. You have plenty of time to change your mind. You can talk to faculty, upperclassmen, you can ask about research, and you can decide then during your freshman year. Even if you switch majors, you can "catch up" with summer classes. During your freshman year, you can take a class that always interested you or join extracurricular groups outside your major.

As for the video, there's no trade off between creativity and education in my opinion. Most of the creative solutions made at my job come from people with technical or science degrees. One of my bosses has a degree in biotechnology and he manages a tech support department. Another wanted to be a theatre major, but her parents said they wouldn't pay for her to study that in school, and now she runs the customer service department.

If you don't know what you want to do, a STEM degree can open a lot more doors than a trip to Europe for a year. Personally, I'd do the schoolwork, get the paycheck, and then figure it out - only because I didn't do the schoolwork, got stuck in a mediocre job, and am trying to start over. I'm only now making it to manager where I can afford decent things and am paying off my debt, and my first steps are to go back to school while working. Yes the education system is flawed, but forsaking it isn't the answer.

Good luck.
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Re: I have made a terrible mistake.

Post by marcopollo »

If you can't do what you love, find a way to love what you do.
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Dyvim tvar
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Re: I have made a terrible mistake.

Post by Dyvim tvar »

Passion doesn't pay the bills. I might have a passion for playing the nose flute, but no matter how good I get, I'm going to have trouble getting paid to do it. Other people have a passion for something that could be lucrative but don't have the talent or ability to make it.

You need to be realistic about your passions. But If you have a passion, are good at it, and it's the type of thing that could be a career (and are young with nobody else to support) by all means try it out for a while and see if you have the goods to make it.

But some people find fulfillment outside of work and they simply use their work as a means to provide for themselves. There's nothing wrong with this. Lots of artists/actors/musicians have a day job. If your passion doesn't pay the bills, find something that you are good at and that you don't actively hate, and use it to support yourself and pursue your passion on the side.
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Re: I have made a terrible mistake.

Post by Liquidedust »

Dyvim tvar wrote:Passion doesn't pay the bills. I might have a passion for playing the nose flute, but no matter how good I get, I'm going to have trouble getting paid to do it. Other people have a passion for something that could be lucrative but don't have the talent or ability to make it.

You need to be realistic about your passions. But If you have a passion, are good at it, and it's the type of thing that could be a career (and are young with nobody else to support) by all means try it out for a while and see if you have the goods to make it.

But some people find fulfillment outside of work and they simply use their work as a means to provide for themselves. There's nothing wrong with this. Lots of artists/actors/musicians have a day job. If your passion doesn't pay the bills, find something that you are good at and that you don't actively hate, and use it to support yourself and pursue your passion on the side.


We work in order to live, we don't live in order to work.

That said, your work should either be something you don't hate to support what you love -or- something you love that is lucrative enough to have as a career :)

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Re: I have made a terrible mistake.

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There are two axis you can look at when trying to find a job that makes you happy:

- Job type (e.g. writer, secretary, sales manager)
- Job field (e.g. medicine, supermarket retail, games company)

The ideal is to get the type of job you want in the job field that you want. So, for example, if you were passionate about wargaming and writing, an ideal job for you would be working for a wargaming company in a writing role (e.g. a rules writer, fluff writer, or copy writer for Games Workshop or Privateer Press).

If you can't do that, then you can then either:
- Get the type of job you want in a field that you don't really care about. So, using the above example, you could get a job as a writer at a random organization (e.g. copy writer for a marketing company).
- Get any type of job in the field that you want to get into. Using the same example, you could get a job at a wargaming company doing a non-writing job (e.g. working in the sales department of Games Workshop).

The worst combination is to get a type of job that you don't want in a field that you don't care about. That leads to maximum unhappiness.

Of course, some would move off those two axis altogether by arguing that the best job is the one that makes you the most amount of money. That is possibly true, but I wouldn't recommend it.
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Dyvim tvar
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Re: I have made a terrible mistake.

Post by Dyvim tvar »

Red... wrote:Of course, some would move off those two axis altogether by arguing that the best job is the one that makes you the most amount of money. That is possibly true, but I wouldn't recommend it.


I would not go that far, but money does need to be a consideration.

If you are doing something you are happy with but can't feed yourself doing it, that's also a recipe for unhappiness.
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