Topic of the Week - 9th Age, does it grab your attention?

Got something to talk about? Be it video games, other tabletop or card games, even random stuff - this is the place to post!

Moderator: The Dread Knights

Post Reply
User avatar
Daeron
Malekith's Best Friend
Posts: 3975
Joined: Fri Oct 03, 2003 7:36 pm
Location: Belgium, Brussels
Contact:

Topic of the Week - 9th Age, does it grab your attention?

Post by Daeron »

Greetings Tyrants,

9th Age recently released its 0.9 beta version, and its first GT is approaching fast. Even our forum seems to be caught in its whirl at times. But for all its updates and news, it's still a game 'in development'. Some parts are still under development, such as the fluff and the art. There is no model factory behind the project, but plenty of offers on the market.
And although the 9th age news speaks of some successes on a regular basis, what we really want to know is whether it stirrs the gaming hearts of our own community.

So the topic of the week is... Does the 9th Age grab your attention, and why or why not? Do you await its development with anticipation or is it something you keep an eye on from a distance? Would you go to an event or tournament just to play 9th age?
What about your gaming group?

And while we're at it, the details of the rules aside, what does the 9th Age need to include to grab your attention (if it doesn't already)?
User avatar
Calisson
Corsair
Corsair
Posts: 8820
Joined: Fri Mar 14, 2008 10:00 pm
Location: Hag Graef

Re: Topic of the Week - 9th Age, does it grab your attention

Post by Calisson »

I hope 9th Age succeeds in replacing GW WH 8th.
Then we would have a reliable game, not liable to get completely revamped for no reason, in which we could invest for the next 25 years.
Its principles of having a balanced game is very appealing.
Of course, it needs first to stabilize, which I expect it to take over a year.
Winds never stop blowing, Oceans are borderless. Get a ship and a crew, so the World will be ours! Today the World, tomorrow Nagg! {--|oBrotherhood of the Coast!o|--}
User avatar
Red...
Generalissimo
Posts: 3750
Joined: Wed Sep 02, 2009 3:09 pm
Location: Baltimore

Re: Topic of the Week - 9th Age, does it grab your attention

Post by Red... »

Hmmm, sadly not really. Partly because of personal reasons and partly due to issues with 9th edition.

Personal:
- Not really war gaming at the moment due to ongoing relocations that have prevented a re-settling into a gaming community.
- Just had a baby daughter, so no prospects of gaming for some time!

9th edition:
- The absence of a single developer and instead a consortium approach leaves me with a sense that there will be a command and control problem as time goes by. While we all had mixed feelings about GW's arrogance towards it player base and silly high pricing, it did offer a single entity that reached out across the globe effectively and clearly. With a web based consortium, the potential reach and punch of their messages is significantly reduced.
- Much of the power of Fantasy came from dramatic releases with exciting new models and accompanying pomp and flare. I just don't really see how a web based consortium is going to achieve that same excitement power.
- A game supported primarily by miniatures from other vendors is always a risky proposition. What happens if necessary miniatures stop being produced? What happens if a new unit is introduced but suitable miniatures cannot be sourced?
- Living as a shadow of what used to be is not a strong USP. There needs to be something new and compelling about the game, not just a continuation of what was before.

I think that 9th edition is a good idea and it will make for a smoother and more gradual transition for many committed hobbyists away from Warhammer than the flop that is/was/will be Age of Sigmar. But I do, sadly, doubt its staying potential.

To rectify the issue, I think that 9th needs to generate a stronger center of gravity. It would need its own dedicated website, with dedicated workers (paid employees in all honesty), business and financial strategies, and possibly even a bricks and mortar location. Designing and running games is a serious business and I think the whole game would need to be professionalized more to be successful.
"While all answers are replies, not all replies are answers. So answer the question."

Don't be a munchkin?

Image

I am an Extraordinary Druchii Gentleman
User avatar
Calisson
Corsair
Corsair
Posts: 8820
Joined: Fri Mar 14, 2008 10:00 pm
Location: Hag Graef

Re: Topic of the Week - 9th Age, does it grab your attention

Post by Calisson »

Very interesting thoughts.
Red... wrote:9th edition:
- The absence of a single developer and instead a consortium approach leaves me with a sense that there will be a command and control problem as time goes by. While we all had mixed feelings about GW's arrogance towards it player base and silly high pricing, it did offer a single entity that reached out across the globe effectively and clearly. With a web based consortium, the potential reach and punch of their messages is significantly reduced.
(...)
I think that 9th needs to generate a stronger center of gravity. It would need its own dedicated website, with dedicated workers (paid employees in all honesty), business and financial strategies, and possibly even a bricks and mortar location. Designing and running games is a serious business and I think the whole game would need to be professionalized more to be successful.

=> These concerns seem to be adressed.
The website is dedicated.
The developers and command structure is clearly identified: http://www.the-ninth-age.com/index.php?team/. That's much better than GW has ever been.
They are not paid but the outcome so far proves that they are very professional.


Red... wrote:- Much of the power of Fantasy came from dramatic releases with exciting new models and accompanying pomp and flare. I just don't really see how a web based consortium is going to achieve that same excitement power.
- A game supported primarily by miniatures from other vendors is always a risky proposition. What happens if necessary miniatures stop being produced? What happens if a new unit is introduced but suitable miniatures cannot be sourced?
- Living as a shadow of what used to be is not a strong USP. There needs to be something new and compelling about the game, not just a continuation of what was before.

=> The present version is exiting already: cults of blood and pleasure, fleet masters and beast masters are inspiring! What about the chaos dwarf revival?
For miniatures, the example of Blood Bowl shows that when there is a game, there are mini providers.
For new units, I would expect new unit rules to follow the release of new models, not the reverse.
For new compelling game, my understanding is that there will be a totally new fluff, very familiar but completely redone. Once its bases are established, it may grow forever.

:idea: Your wish about dramatic releases, pomp and flares could be filled with campaigns. I don't know if it is envisioned yet, but it has sure great potential.
Winds never stop blowing, Oceans are borderless. Get a ship and a crew, so the World will be ours! Today the World, tomorrow Nagg! {--|oBrotherhood of the Coast!o|--}
User avatar
Giladis
Corsair
Posts: 92
Joined: Wed Dec 28, 2005 6:12 pm
Location: Zagreb, Croatia

Re: Topic of the Week - 9th Age, does it grab your attention

Post by Giladis »

Calisson wrote:...could be filled with campaigns. I don't know if it is envisioned yet...


Yes they are planned, but we have our priorities of first providing a quality rules set and a mesmerising setting before creating a campaign.
User avatar
Phox532
Executioner
Posts: 173
Joined: Wed Sep 09, 2015 4:11 am
Location: Hohhot, China

Re: Topic of the Week - 9th Age, does it grab your attention

Post by Phox532 »

I think that I am agreeing with Red here. Don't get me wrong I'm impressed with all the work people have done on 9th Age, but I'm not sure that it is going to have huge staying power. There are simply just too many different people work on it and are in charge of too many different things. I think Red is right, without a centralize core (read company, as in people getting paid), then this work only last as long as they are in the hobby. What is 1 or 2 members of the balance team have real life happen to them so they stop replying on forums or talking in skype chats? I believe this is the greatest risk that 9th Age has. People simply getting burnt out and not able to keep up with what is happening.
As for truly grabbing my attention, it really doesn't. I know that I'm not in a the majority on the forums, but I like Age of Sigmar, and talking with guy back in the states that own the local games workshop shop, they are enjoying to. They are running AoS campaigns and tournaments, where before it was only 40k. I think that AoS does have for faults to be sure, but I think that one thing that it did do was promote the fantasy models which have been greatly overshadowed by 40k. People are at least talking about it. And every week one youtube you can find more AoS battlereps posted.

If 9th really wants to be a real thing and have 25 years of staying power, then it is going to need an official seal, and while many people are saying AoS is dead, I think that GW is just scratching the surface of something much bigger and deeper.
Phox Jorkarzul
User avatar
Daeron
Malekith's Best Friend
Posts: 3975
Joined: Fri Oct 03, 2003 7:36 pm
Location: Belgium, Brussels
Contact:

Re: Topic of the Week - 9th Age, does it grab your attention

Post by Daeron »

Well.. 9th does grab my attention. Some, at least ;)

I'm a bit surprised by the professionalism with which the 9th Age project is run. My guess is that the leadership has some management experience at a professional level. That isn't a guarantee for success, but it's not a bad start.

Considering the welcome the 9th Age received on Dnet, I thought I'd keep an eye on it and joined their forum. I confess, I picked it up mostly to support Dnet at first, and not out of my own interest.
There was a bit too much lobbying going on there, which encouraged me complete my combat calculator even quicker just to smack the lobbyists with numbers. Once the armybook committees were appointed, I could really feel an improvement in the atmosphere of the forum. It felt like millions of lobbyist souls were screaming out in horror and then fell silent. The DE book streamlined rapidly since and it's beginning to feel like a complete and solid game.

So it does grab my attention. If you want a living ruleset, close to Warhammer, I think 9th Age will provide that.

Now I get that there are doubts about such a community balanced game. I don't think that will be a problem. ETC comp and Swedish comp could be taken as proof that community driven balance can be achieved. Not everyone loved it, sure, but I don't recall anyone claiming it had a terrible balance.

Secondly, the success of the 9th Age project depends on it. While GW could afford imbalance and perhaps added a little on purpose, a free game relies on the strength of its rules and internal balance to succeed as a project. If 9th Age has a shot at succeeding, it is because they seem to acknowledge the importance of this.

I don't think 9th Age is out of the woods yet. It is still unproven and it hasn't withstood the test of time yet. But it has potential, for sure.
And I'll try to support it in my own way.

A friend of mine said "I'll wait a year, and then see what happened."
I think that's a smart thing to do... But I don't want to wait a whole year to roll some dice ;)

Still.. there's a few things missing for me:
- Art
- Fluff
- Good looking rules.
Unless those are added, it won't have a lasting lure on me. But they are working on it, so I'll try to be patient :)
I love me a bowl of numbers to crunch for breakfast. If you need anything theoryhammered, I gladly take requests.

Furnace of Arcana, a warhammer blog with delusional grandeur.

"I move unseen. I hide in light and shadow. I move faster than a bird. No plate of armour ever stopped me. I strike recruits and veterans with equal ease. And all shiver at my coldest of whispers."
- The stiff breeze
User avatar
Red...
Generalissimo
Posts: 3750
Joined: Wed Sep 02, 2009 3:09 pm
Location: Baltimore

Re: Topic of the Week - 9th Age, does it grab your attention

Post by Red... »

See, I do wish them well and I agree, they have run themselves pretty decently thus far. That's not my reason for doubting. But, building on my earlier points and Phox532's insightful points as well, there are some hard truths for the developers:

- Most of the player base is not reachable via the forums, which puts them beyond the reach of 9th (which, AFAIK, has no real marketing budget, bricks and mortar stores, or even branded products to stock in other stores to raise awareness about their system).
- There is a vicious cycle here. Part of Fantasy's power came from the fact that most people knew the game, so wherever you went, you could readily find players who knew the game. 9th is relatively unknown, which will mean that many people will not know how to play it, which will impede people from wanting to learn how to play it, which will reduce the number of people playing it, and so on.
- When the chips are down, work will come first, and 9th is just a hobby for its developers. That will lead to fits and starts, key members disappearing at various intervals, and other challenges.
- Moreover, without an employment structure, there will likely be many arguments about the game design and dynamics, which will eventually lead to fragmentation, with different versions in circulation, all slightly different, which will reduce the reach of the game yet further.
- Warhammer Fantasy was already in decline and facing ever larger growing numbers of rivals - to the extent that GW scrapped it. These rivals still exist and have received a huge boost by the death of Fantasy. 9th has to tackle the same combination of problems as GW: a declining player base that is increasingly contested by rivals, but without the vast monetary reserves, professional staff, years of experience, existing brand association, bricks and mortar stores, existing circulation distributions, and so on that GW had. GW couldn't make it sustainable with all of those advantages, I just don't see 9th being able to do so without them, no matter how balanced they make the game (sadly, I don't think how balanced a game is necessarily impacts upon its success - just look at Magic The Gathering).

I've seen so many good intentioned community projects of this kind start with an explosion of excitement, that descends into a gradually ever more plodding tedium, and then slips into decay and abandonment.

I would like to be proven wrong, but to be honest I have far more hope for King's of War stepping up to fill the shoes of Fantasy than 9th edition. But, I will keep my fingers crossed that the 9th ed venture is a success nevertheless...
"While all answers are replies, not all replies are answers. So answer the question."

Don't be a munchkin?

Image

I am an Extraordinary Druchii Gentleman
User avatar
Daeron
Malekith's Best Friend
Posts: 3975
Joined: Fri Oct 03, 2003 7:36 pm
Location: Belgium, Brussels
Contact:

Re: Topic of the Week - 9th Age, does it grab your attention

Post by Daeron »

There is a frailty, of course. All you can do as a manager is build failsafes and hope you have enough resources to step in (temporarily?) if a problem arises. I think they did that, as best as could be done within reason. Better than any online Warhammer community I have seen thus far (but I certainly haven't seen them all). IMO this is as good as it can get, considering the cards dealt. Whether it will work, only time can tell. Meanwhile, all I can do is give it the positive vibe and support :)
I love me a bowl of numbers to crunch for breakfast. If you need anything theoryhammered, I gladly take requests.

Furnace of Arcana, a warhammer blog with delusional grandeur.

"I move unseen. I hide in light and shadow. I move faster than a bird. No plate of armour ever stopped me. I strike recruits and veterans with equal ease. And all shiver at my coldest of whispers."
- The stiff breeze
User avatar
toots
Beastmaster
Posts: 334
Joined: Wed Mar 19, 2014 10:25 pm

Re: Topic of the Week - 9th Age, does it grab your attention

Post by toots »

yer it's totally baller let's all get behind it for the big win


Daeron wrote:Greetings Tyrants,

9th Age recently released its 0.9 beta version, and its first GT is approaching fast. Even our forum seems to be caught in its whirl at times. But for all its updates and news, it's still a game 'in development'. Some parts are still under development, such as the fluff and the art. There is no model factory behind the project, but plenty of offers on the market.
And although the 9th age news speaks of some successes on a regular basis, what we really want to know is whether it stirrs the gaming hearts of our own community.

So the topic of the week is... Does the 9th Age grab your attention, and why or why not? Do you await its development with anticipation or is it something you keep an eye on from a distance? Would you go to an event or tournament just to play 9th age?
What about your gaming group?

And while we're at it, the details of the rules aside, what does the 9th Age need to include to grab your attention (if it doesn't already)?
User avatar
Giladis
Corsair
Posts: 92
Joined: Wed Dec 28, 2005 6:12 pm
Location: Zagreb, Croatia

Re: Topic of the Week - 9th Age, does it grab your attention

Post by Giladis »

@Daeron - the Background and Arts team will soon start with teasers and sneak peeks. We were waiting to accumulate a certain volume of work before we start revealing it so that we can provide a steady stream.

Our artists are itching to show of what they have done and I can wait the moment to unveil the art team behind the 9th Age.
User avatar
Calisson
Corsair
Corsair
Posts: 8820
Joined: Fri Mar 14, 2008 10:00 pm
Location: Hag Graef

Re: Topic of the Week - 9th Age, does it grab your attention

Post by Calisson »

Thanks for the update and tease.
The understanding is that 9th Age will be totally different from GW's WH, in order not to take the slightest risk of intellectual property issue.
Still, it should be familiar enough for us old timers to adapt very quickly. Also, I've read that it will be vague enough for anyone to adapt their own stories easily.

I would therefore expect a fantasy world with strong ties to real world medieval times and medieval civilizations, just with elves, dwarfs and undeads, magic and all the goodies.
I expect some concern about remaining relatively realistic, and certainly not going as high fantasy as Age of Sigmar, in any case.

Looking forwards to reading what the Dread Elves are in the 9th Age.
Winds never stop blowing, Oceans are borderless. Get a ship and a crew, so the World will be ours! Today the World, tomorrow Nagg! {--|oBrotherhood of the Coast!o|--}
User avatar
Giladis
Corsair
Posts: 92
Joined: Wed Dec 28, 2005 6:12 pm
Location: Zagreb, Croatia

Re: Topic of the Week - 9th Age, does it grab your attention

Post by Giladis »

Calisson wrote:Looking forwards to reading what the Dread Elves are in the 9th Age.


What would you say about a mix of Sparta meets late Roman Republic with a dash of Nordic and Greek mythology and a sprinkling of grimdarkTM, with everything packed inside a civilisation that would actually be functional. ;)
User avatar
Diobarach
Black Guard
Posts: 296
Joined: Sat Mar 22, 2014 12:24 am

Re: Topic of the Week - 9th Age, does it grab your attention

Post by Diobarach »

Sounds good to me, getting rid of our hilariously dysfunctional society is a plus. Those historical roots seem like rich areas for ideas, my own personal feeling is that dark elves embody hunting pack predatory animals. There is an alpha who leads but with signs of weakness or frailty appearing, someone will challenge for leadership. However, there is still an understanding that pack must cooperate when on the hunt.
User avatar
Giladis
Corsair
Posts: 92
Joined: Wed Dec 28, 2005 6:12 pm
Location: Zagreb, Croatia

Re: Topic of the Week - 9th Age, does it grab your attention

Post by Giladis »

Diobarach wrote:Sounds good to me, getting rid of our hilariously dysfunctional society is a plus. Those historical roots seem like rich areas for ideas, my own personal feeling is that dark elves embody hunting pack predatory animals. There is an alpha who leads but with signs of weakness or frailty appearing, someone will challenge for leadership. However, there is still an understanding that pack must cooperate when on the hunt.


Are you certain you are not describing a Roman Republican Senate :mrgreen:
User avatar
Diobarach
Black Guard
Posts: 296
Joined: Sat Mar 22, 2014 12:24 am

Re: Topic of the Week - 9th Age, does it grab your attention

Post by Diobarach »

!lol! Sounds great. I, Claudius style dialed to 11.
User avatar
toots
Beastmaster
Posts: 334
Joined: Wed Mar 19, 2014 10:25 pm

Re: Topic of the Week - 9th Age, does it grab your attention

Post by toots »

I do need to watch that.

And yeah the background was preposterous for DE previously.
User avatar
Gidean
Malekith's Best Friend
Posts: 1043
Joined: Sat Sep 22, 2012 4:47 am

Re: Topic of the Week - 9th Age, does it grab your attention

Post by Gidean »

Who from our august list was involved in the Dread Elf army Book creation?
User avatar
Gidean
Malekith's Best Friend
Posts: 1043
Joined: Sat Sep 22, 2012 4:47 am

Re: Topic of the Week - 9th Age, does it grab your attention

Post by Gidean »

Gidean wrote:Who from our august list was involved in the Dread Elf army Book creation?



I guess nobody wanted to 'fess' up?
User avatar
Daeron
Malekith's Best Friend
Posts: 3975
Joined: Fri Oct 03, 2003 7:36 pm
Location: Belgium, Brussels
Contact:

Re: Topic of the Week - 9th Age, does it grab your attention

Post by Daeron »

We had a list?
I love me a bowl of numbers to crunch for breakfast. If you need anything theoryhammered, I gladly take requests.

Furnace of Arcana, a warhammer blog with delusional grandeur.

"I move unseen. I hide in light and shadow. I move faster than a bird. No plate of armour ever stopped me. I strike recruits and veterans with equal ease. And all shiver at my coldest of whispers."
- The stiff breeze
User avatar
direweasel
Malekith's Personal Guard
Posts: 920
Joined: Mon Oct 07, 2013 9:58 pm
Location: Terre Haute, IN, USA

Re: Topic of the Week - 9th Age, does it grab your attention

Post by direweasel »

I am part of a Facebook "Warhammer" group made up of our local players, but all the talk on there is about 40k now. Everybody but me, apparently, has given up on fantasy entirely.

So in a practical sense, it doesn't really matter what I think of 9th Ed, because it would apparently take a Herculean effort on my part just to get Fantasy back into the conversation, and I'm not really sure I have the energy, time, or willpower to even attempt it.

My actual thought lately has been whether or not to drop out of the Warhammer group, since I don't play 40k and have no interest in starting. I hope the community's efforts for 9th Age go well, and I will dispassionately follow them. I will also offer encouragement in the sense that Blood Bowl started with a much smaller fanbase, and was able to continue without GW's assistance for many years. In fact I would say it has arguably grown and flourished without GW. So I know it's possible for committed gamers to keep Fantasy alive, and I wish you the best in that. If it ever comes back into vogue in these parts, I'll be happy to participate. But that's a long term goal, and it will have to be able to do so without my active prodding.
Chinese Relativity Axiom: No matter how glorious your triumphs, nor how miserable your failures, there will always be at least one billion people in China who don't give a damn.

Apocalypse Drow! Plog: http://druchii.net/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=75360
User avatar
Calisson
Corsair
Corsair
Posts: 8820
Joined: Fri Mar 14, 2008 10:00 pm
Location: Hag Graef

Re: Topic of the Week - 9th Age, does it grab your attention

Post by Calisson »

T9A board just confirmed the release period to be during April second half. It's coming...

Now, there will be a difference with Blood Bowl: T9A rules are 100% newly written.
Winds never stop blowing, Oceans are borderless. Get a ship and a crew, so the World will be ours! Today the World, tomorrow Nagg! {--|oBrotherhood of the Coast!o|--}
Post Reply