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WFB Reworked and Rebalanced 
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Malekith's Best Friend
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So, since Furion hasn't graced our forum with a discussion topic yet, I'll note it here. He started an initiative to rebalance 8th edition. It's mostly a few changes and tweaks here and there, unlike the comprehensive rework from 9th age. He seems to fix a lot with points, kind of like a built-in comp system with only a few changes to mechanics.
http://warhammer.org.uk/phpBB/viewforum.php?f=106

Overall, core infantry is made cheaper, combat is made a little bit cheaper, and shooting is kept as expensive as it was or made more expensive. I haven't checked all armybooks yet, but here's the list of changes he made to the Dark Elf book.

  • Malekith - Now 580 pts.
  • Morathi - Now 490 pts.
  • Hellebron - Now 350pts.
  • Malus Darkblade - Now 340pts, up from 295pts.
  • Dreadlord
    • Sea Dragon Cloak now costs 45pts, up from 8pts.
    • Dark Steed costs 35pts, up from 20pts.
    • Manticore costs 100pts, down from 150pts.
    • Cold one Chariot costs 50pts, down from 120pts.
  • Supreme Sorceress
    • Dark Steed costs 35pts, up from 20pts.
    • Black Dragon costs 225pts, down from 300pts.
  • High Beastmaster
    • Costs 200pts, down from 300pts
    • Is now a HERO instead of a LORD (no change in stats though!)
  • Black Ark Fleetmaster
    • Costs 110pts, down from 110pts
    • Is now a HERO instead of a LORD (no change in stats though!)
    • Show no weakness: in your turn, sacrifice the Corsair unit's champ to give it +2 to movement, WS, Ini and stubborn.
    • Assault Leader: give Ambush to the Fleetmaster's infantry unit.
  • Shadowblade now costs 180pts, down fro 245pts
  • Lokhir Fellheart costs 90pts, down from 235pts
  • Kouran Darkhand costs 90pts, down from 180pts
  • Tullaris Dreadbringer costs 90pts, down from 155pts
  • Master
    • Sea Dragon Cloak costs 45pts, up from 6pts
    • Dark steed costs 25pts, up from 10pts
    • Manticore costs 100pts, down from 150pts
  • Death Hag
    • Costs 75pts, down from 85pts.
    • Cry of War: replaced. Now it gives Vanguard to the unit the Hag joins.
    • (new) Cry of War costs 40pts, up from 15pts.
    • Witchbrew costs 25pts, down from 30pts.
    • Rune of Khaine costs 45pts, down from 40pts.
    • Can take any magical items, instead of just weapons.
    • Cauldron of Blood costs 120pts, down from 190pts.
  • Assassins
    • Repeater Handbow costs 15pts, up from 5pts.
    • Can take any "number of poisons". Poisons are cummulative.
    • Black Lotus, you get a poisoned attack on a 4+
    • Dark Venom, killing blow for shooting and combat on a 5+
    • Manbane, Strength 5 for shooting, Strength 6 for close combat
    • 40 points, Throwing stars, quick to fire, multiple shots (3)
  • Dreadspears cost 7pts, down from 9pts.
  • Bleakswords cost 7pts, down from 9pts.
  • Darkshards cost 13pts, up from 12pts.
  • Witch Elves
    • Now automatically deal 1 Strength 4 hit to all non Khainite characters in the unit, instead of a 4+ test to deal D6 S3 hits.
  • Cold One Chariot
    • Is now core
    • Costs 115pts, marked as a change even though it cost 115pts before.
  • Black Ark Corsairs cost 8pts (9pts with equipment), down from 9pts (11pts with equipment)
  • Dark Riders
    • Shields cost 2pts per model, up from 1pt per model.
    • Repeater Crossbows cost 5pts per model, up from 3pts per model.
  • Cold One Knights cost 26pts, down from 30pts.
  • Black Guard cost 11pts, down from 15pts.
  • Reaper Bolt Throwers cost 80pts, up from 70pts.
  • Harpies cost 12pts, down from 15pts.
  • Scourgerunner Chariot costs 140pts, down from 150pts.
  • Doomfire Warlocks cost 40pts, up from 25pts.
  • Bloodwrack Medusae
    • Cost 50pts, down from 90pts.
    • Now have Ld 8
    • Gained skirmish special rule
    • 1+ models
  • Kharibdyss
    • Now costs 180pts, up from 160pts.
    • Toughness 6
  • Bloodwrack Shrine
    • Aura of Agony: now gives +1 WS to friendly models and -1 WS to enemy models within 6".
  • Sisters of Slaughter.
    • Now costs 14pts per model, down from 15pts per model.
    • Gained skirmisher special rule
  • Manticore
    • Blind Rage no longer gives +1 to Hit for the manticore and its attackers
  • Dark Magic
    • Power of Darkness, now 11+ to cast, up from 8+
    • Word of Pain, boosted version costs 15+ to cast, up from 12+
    • Shroud of Despair, now affects a single enemy unit within 18", instead of all enemy units within 12".
  • Items
    • Hydra Blade, 50 points (down from 100pts). Profile changed. It now gives a flat D6 additional attacks and the regeneration from the Hydra "Another takes its place".
    • Chillblade, down to 40 pts (from 50pts). It permanently reduces the target's attacks by 3, no toughness test required.
    • Black Dragon Egg: down to 40 pts (from 50pts).
    • Cloak of Twillight: down to 45pts (from 50pts), but only wards on a 4+ (instead of 3+).
    • Gem of Spite, removed.
    • Sacrificial Dagger, now 65pts up from 25pts.
    • Tome of Furion, down to 20pts from 25pts. It now works for all lores.
    • *new* Pear of Infinite Bleakness, 10pts, Character and its unit are ITP.
    • *new* Banner of Cold Blood, 50pts, one use, lasts one turn, all units within 12" roll LD checks on 3D6 and discard the highest D6 roll.
    • *new* Web of Shadows, 15pts, S3 Breath Weapon for the bearer but only in close combat.
    • *new* Ring of Darkness, 50pts, -1 WS/BS for attackers of the bearer (or unit in case of shooting).
    • *new* Crystal of Midnight, 20pts, one use, nominate an enemy wizzard who must pass a Ld test on 3D6 or forget a randomly determined spell.
    • *new* Hydra Banner, 75pts, +1A for all (including mounts) in first round of any close combat.
    • *new* Armour of Living Death, 65pts, Heavy Armour, +1T, +3W
    • *new* Shield of Grond, 35pts, resolve all hits at -1S.


Remarks I'll report to him as potential typos or oversights.
- Fleetmaster, by giving +2 movement only to the unit, then Fleetmaster in the unit will still restrict the unit to M5 rendering the ability useless on the charge, useless in close combat. The only scenario in which this can be beneficial is when the character leaves the unit, which means the benefit of WS, ini and stubborn are lost. This is intended?
- Banner of Cold Blood affects all units, which includes enemy units. This is intended?
- Web of Shadows, doesn't state a single use only. This is intended to be reusable in every close combat phase?
- The dragon is made cheaper for the Sorceress but not the Dreadlord? (I get this one)
- The Manticore is made 50pts cheaper for Dreadlord and Beastmaster, but not the Sorceress? (I don't get this one)
- Cold one Chariot costs 115pts. It's marked as a change, but it is the same cost as before.
- Dark Riders cost 16pts. It's marked as a change, but it's the same cost as before.

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Wed Sep 16, 2015 2:29 pm
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Malekith's Best Friend
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Well it's clear people hated Warlocks and Sea Dragon Cloaks. LOL! !lol!

Most tweaks are small changes and I find it difficult to judge quickly how it will affect the game. I think Black Guards are huge winners, perhaps at the expensive of Executioners. The Chariots in core make an all chariot and monster list possible. The reduced cost of the Cloak of Twillight is a bit weird. I have to check the changes to the dawnstone. If it didn't get more expensive, I see some new cheese combos there.
Cheaper monsters are okay, I suppose. But now a Dragon comes awfully close in cost to a Kharibdys? Hm.
The switch by some characters to heroes isn't a biggie but appreciated. The Beastmaster is still outmatched by our Master in almost every way except that the Beastmaster can carry 100pts of Magical Items.
The Fleetmaster is more acceptable as a fighter on foot. Not terrific, but better.
Rending star Assassins seem back in the game but expensive to be at full power.
We can now have armoured Hags. Yay.
Cheaper Dreadspears and Bleakswords will bring them in the game again, but note that a similar change was done across the board for other armies.

With the cheaper troops, in general, I think this change will bring back armies with 3 big blocks, which can be any of bleakswords, witch elves, black guards, cold one knights. Or 2 blocks with a few support units like the Sisters, Executioners and Medusae.

The Shroud of Despair has lost a lot of power with the BWS and Hag losing their LD modifiers. The range compensation makes me wonder if he intended to have it used as a defensive spell... To help units fail panic checks. Right.

Most obvious of all is that people hated Warlocks. There seems to be no end to the nerdrage against them and there is a community wide crusade to make sure they are nerfed into the ground. And drowned in the mud. And then kicked. And then spit on. And then shot in the head. And then their corpses get all sorts of humiliating treatments which I shouldn't be describing in detail here.
Either way, down down down they go!

I'm a big fan of the love and support that regular spears have been given. They needed a boost. But the way some nerfs are handled irks me... and that's putting it politely ;)

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I love me a bowl of numbers to crunch for breakfast. If you need anything theoryhammered, I gladly take requests.

Furnace of Arcana, a warhammer blog with delusional grandeur.

"I move unseen. I hide in light and shadow. I move faster than a bird. No plate of armour ever stopped me. I strike recruits and veterans with equal ease. And all shiver at my coldest of whispers."
- The stiff breeze


Wed Sep 16, 2015 2:49 pm
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Warlocks:
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Ohhh the humanity!

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I love me a bowl of numbers to crunch for breakfast. If you need anything theoryhammered, I gladly take requests.

Furnace of Arcana, a warhammer blog with delusional grandeur.

"I move unseen. I hide in light and shadow. I move faster than a bird. No plate of armour ever stopped me. I strike recruits and veterans with equal ease. And all shiver at my coldest of whispers."
- The stiff breeze


Wed Sep 16, 2015 3:13 pm
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Miscast into the Warp
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Daeron wrote:
Ohhh the humanity!


:) indeed so

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Wed Sep 16, 2015 6:11 pm
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Malekith's Personal Guard
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elfity? elfanity?

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Wed Sep 16, 2015 7:20 pm
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I never bothered looking closely at what he's done but yeah 45 points for SDC, that's crazy but not unsurprising to me. I could see 20 or 25 points but 45 points is just draconian, no pun intended.

Blackguard at 11 points if they are otherwise unchanged makes them much stronger, seems a little crazy good, if you put a razor banner on them and a cauldron (or back them up with life magic).

I think I'm at the point where to me trying to fix warhammer 'balance' using a linear point system will converge to an uninteresting set of army books. Most of the abuses in 8th seem to stem from spamming power choices. Are 5 warlocks at 125 points overpowering? Maybe, are 20 at 500 points, yeah that's much more difficult for people to deal with. Secondly, 45 point 4+ ward save on a night goblin big boss, no real problem. 45 point 4+ ward save on chaos lord with mark of tzeentch and third eye of tzeentch, that's a bigger problem. Linear doesn't fix these problems but nonlinear leads to a more complicated game system and it seems people prefer a simplistic system. So the only real solution for linear point systems is to make powerful stuff be crazy expensive like sea dragon cloaks and warlocks or just to nerf it significantly.

Definitely elfanity and beyond here.


Wed Sep 16, 2015 7:21 pm
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I think the changes make sense, and seem to address many of the complaints people had with the current list in terms of balance. It would make some of the less popular options (fleetmaster, medusa, etc) more viable and some of the "must -have" units more situational.

I'd still say that even at 40 points each, I'd still take Warlocks more often than not.

That said, the trick as always would be convincing your friends to adopt unofficial house rules.

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Wed Sep 16, 2015 7:38 pm
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direweasel wrote:
I think the changes make sense, and seem to address many of the complaints people had with the current list in terms of balance. It would make some of the less popular options (fleetmaster, medusa, etc) more viable and some of the "must -have" units more situational.

I'd still say that even at 40 points each, I'd still take Warlocks more often than not.

That said, the trick as always would be convincing your friends to adopt unofficial house rules.


While I cannot be bothered to grind my way through another set of rules, his changes do seem a bit more interesting. At least more in flavor with what I consider to be fun about warhammer. Probably unbalanced as hell !lol!


Wed Sep 16, 2015 11:40 pm
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Two updates have passed since. This is a compilation of all the changes since my OP.


Dark Elves:
- Sea Dragon Cloak 45 to 40
- Dread Spears 7 to 6
- Bleakswords 7 to 6
- Cold One Chariot 115 to 130
- Scourgerunner Chariot 140 to 125
- Fleetmaster: clarification
- Banner of Cold Blood: clarification
- Web of Shadows: clarification
- Supreme Sorceres: Manticore 150 to 65
- Supreme Sorceres: Iron Hard skin 20 to 10
- Supreme Sorceres: Blind Rage 25 to 15
- Supreme Sorceres: Pegasus 50 to 35
- Supreme Sorceres: Cold One 35 to 17

So cheaper mounts and monsters for the Sorceress all around. Our core infantry has become cheaper again, making them a real steal.

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I love me a bowl of numbers to crunch for breakfast. If you need anything theoryhammered, I gladly take requests.

Furnace of Arcana, a warhammer blog with delusional grandeur.

"I move unseen. I hide in light and shadow. I move faster than a bird. No plate of armour ever stopped me. I strike recruits and veterans with equal ease. And all shiver at my coldest of whispers."
- The stiff breeze


Wed Sep 30, 2015 8:46 am
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The Sea Dragon cloak points cost makes sense to me. By itself, 40 points for a +2 armor save bonus is steep, but in relation to the usual character build (heavy armor, shield, mount, sea dragon cloak), a change from 3+ to 1+ is definitely worth the 40 points price tag. It has to be understood in that context, I assume :)

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Wed Sep 30, 2015 2:49 pm
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Why is he costing the infantry so cheap? If they get ANY kind of re-roll at these low points cost its very imbalanced.
Elves at 6pts means empire halberds need to be 3pts. And what are zombies 1pt?


Fri Feb 12, 2016 6:35 pm
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Just to let you know, the interest seems to have shifted away from reworking 8th independantly.
Some people just play 8th as GW left it, and many look forwards to reading what 9th Age will provide in a few weeks.

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Fri Feb 12, 2016 7:52 pm
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I hate to say it but it looks like R&R has been abandoned. He hasn't posted anything new in quite a while.


Fri Feb 12, 2016 9:25 pm
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