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Warhammer Armies Projects Ravening hordes 
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Highborn
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Has anybody ever tried out the Ravening list of the dark elves?
It looks a bit harder to manage with some troops going from core to special and from special to Rare.
Losing ASF , which is good in my opinion. Spider riders though? And it has a lot of rares, i think hydra did just fine as special.
What do you guys think?

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B_Redi9cZJ5iTU54RnNabndCSVU/view

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Tue Jan 31, 2017 2:23 pm
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I only gave it a quick look so far, but it begs further investigation.

Here is my impression: it feels like the author tried to bring back a more classic elven army, without ASF and the re-rolls. I can appreciate that, and perhaps we can provide some feedback. Overall, though, it felt like a big nerf to the army as whole, making internal balance worse. A few units stand out. The rest became weaker. For any mildly competitive environment (even if it is just in spirit) this book would pigeon hole us to fast cavalry armies, and pegasus spam. Alternatively it could be a hail of arrow army.

It might be important to check how other armies were affected. If they were similarly nerfed, it might do a lot to ease some of the nerfs we suffered, which make it all reasonable. However, assuming this isn't the case, then:
  • Core only becomes point effective with heavy armour. It's the loss of their offensive capabilities that worries me though. The loss of magic banners is unfortunate.
  • The nerf to the SDC makes corsairs an unlikely choice. Compared to spears with heavy armour, they have a similar save vs shooting and only a 6+ AS in close combat. It's not like a S3 without re-rolls is so awesome it's worth the price.
  • DRs remain largely unchanged. Surprising, since shields on fast cav was a point of contention. I would have expected shield+barding to come together to make medium cav.
  • Executioners are almost trashed. Same price point with loss of ASF... yeah, I don't think they'll see a lot of action. ASL at T3, 5+ AS is a combo that never worked, not for high elves, not for dark elves. In 7th they were cheaper and had re-rolls. In a large enough unit, it was possible to make a few death stars that could surprise the odd foe. But without re-rolls and ASL? The only combo still worth considering is with a hag in the unit to give them frenzy, which seems a very limited and point expensive use.
  • Warlocks, which were another point of contention, haven't been touched.
  • Black Guard were hit pretty hard in 8th: +2 points per model to have their unit size limit removed, moved to special, gain ASF (which they didn't need). Now they are moved to rare, lost ASF and don't get a price reduction. In spite of having potential, they are very expensive to make them "strong". And that's where there T3 5+ AS becomes prohibitive.
  • Shades became 2pts cheaper for losing ASF and WS. Their most dreaded ability, the BS5 RXB is still there.
  • HA on the warmachine crew. Thanks.

With the best save, and combat power, and magic power, and mobility all coming from the one and the same unit, Warlocks, I think the army is pigeon holed around this unit. Building a good list is simple:
- Spend all rare points on brolocks
- Spend all hero+lord points on pegasi and mounted characters
- Take DR for core requirements
- If needed, fill some special with RBTs

The one alternative:
- RXB spam from Darkshards, perhaps with a bunker dreadspear unit for casters
- Shades
- RBTs
- Sprinkle some Warlocks
- Shadow sorceress

What alternatives do we have?

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Tue Jan 31, 2017 7:35 pm
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Highborn
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Warlocks even got cheaper, but lost their strength 4.
Id be playing against the high elves version as we dont have that 8th ed book.

Ill try to come up with other workable alternatives after another good read

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Tue Jan 31, 2017 9:44 pm
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Still need to play the game, but the arachne do wonders for their points. I wish the Sea dragon cloaks still plovided at least 1 point towards close combat armor.

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Tue Jan 31, 2017 10:37 pm
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van Awful wrote:
Warlocks even got cheaper, but lost their strength 4.


Ahh, I missed that one. Giving the Empire book a quick glance, I do think the core is somewhat balanced with the other book. Interesting...
With our next 8th ed game, I might launch the idea of trying it out.

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Furnace of Arcana, a warhammer blog with delusional grandeur.

"I move unseen. I hide in light and shadow. I move faster than a bird. No plate of armour ever stopped me. I strike recruits and veterans with equal ease. And all shiver at my coldest of whispers."
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Wed Feb 01, 2017 9:11 am
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Highborn
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Sooo, I just noticed thy gave the cores medium armour? whats up with that?

DAeron is think you have a good point about cores, itás back to Dark riders or xbows and a sword/spearbunker. Whereas in 8th i find it hard to choose something over my witches. Which Of course I still do..sometimes...So maybe it's a good thing the got bumped back up to special? so that the bulk of the army is formed by the basic warrior or black ark crew with some fast cav/med cav.

Quote:
DRs remain largely unchanged. Surprising, since shields on fast cav was a point of contention. I would have expected shield+barding to come together to make medium cav.


Well, they do, dont they? Maybe a decent all cav. is even doable?

Quote:
Executioners are almost trashed. Same price point with loss of ASF... yeah, I don't think they'll see a lot of action. ASL at T3, 5+ AS is a combo that never worked, not for high elves, not for dark elves. In 7th they were cheaper and had re-rolls. In a large enough unit, it was possible to make a few death stars that could surprise the odd foe. But without re-rolls and ASL? The only combo still worth considering is with a hag in the unit to give them frenzy, which seems a very limited and point expensive use.


I mostly agree with you here, but i think in combination with the disciple( hah we get our own Warrior priest) it might just work. His rites: 5+ reg./ Reroll to hit and to wound/ d6 str3 hits and -1str Will help a lot. Against dwarfs or brets i'd still use them for sure.

I Just love black guards the rules, the fluff and 6th edition model is just awesome. I almost always take at least one unit somewehere between 14-28 , for different purposes. With this list you can just fit in 20 with full command, 5 warlocks and a Kbeast on 2500 points, but hey at least you have to think about your rarechoices again

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Wed Feb 01, 2017 9:13 am
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Medium armour is a 9th edition rule. So we'll have to be specific about which book to follow: 8th ed or 9th ed ;)

I'm not trying to diss the project, but it confuses editions.

They started out 8th ed as a bolt-on ruleset with army books for armies that didn't exist in 8th edition, like Brettonia, Beastmen and some more exotic armies. Superb. But then they continued with ravening hordes.
Now, they still kept the same BRB, but essentially the ravening horde books trashes my old army book. They change the army, and the meta so completely that a ravening horde book can't work within the old meta.

Because of the 100 similarities and 100 tiny differences, it might get confusing to play 8th ed and Ravening Hordes alongside each other.
So essentially, Ravening Hordes pushes you to make a choice: 8th ed, or Ravening Hordes.

9th Edition takes it one step further, by giving the BRB the same treatment. It basically requires all the effort of learning a new BRB edition, changes the meta and all that comes with it. This isn't something I can ask my buddies to try out.. It's either "yeah let's move on" or "no, we're sticking to 8th".

From a gaming group's position, there's little difference between going Ravening Hordes or 9th Edition. You either change meta, or you don't. The effort is virtually the same.

My original intention was to stick with 8th ed. There's an appeal to it: we played it, we love it, we have the cards, and we have the books. We know the rules from the top of our heads, even after all these years. We know what a Fireball is worth. We know what a dreadspear is worth. That Shade is a Shade.
We'd work within the framework and meta of 8th. I'd like to surprise my buddies with a new army composition, but not to the extent he has to re-learn what a witch elf does. His tactics for dealing with Witch Elves shouldn't necessarily change.

Going to a completely new meta is a nice idea, don't get me wrong, but it loses a lot of the appeal 8th ed still has over competitors like T9A and KoW.

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"I move unseen. I hide in light and shadow. I move faster than a bird. No plate of armour ever stopped me. I strike recruits and veterans with equal ease. And all shiver at my coldest of whispers."
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Wed Feb 01, 2017 11:13 am
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Sorry man, my bad! i picked 9th ed. by mistake the 2nd time around. We 're sticking with 8th edition, however like a said we 're missing the High elf book. its one of the main armies of my mate and I thought this might be a nice solution as long as we cant find the book. (it's harder then expected). If he plays the raveninghorde with his high elves i might as well play the dark elf version.
My other buddy always said he wanted to try the Bret version. as he cant win with the 6th ed. book

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Wed Feb 01, 2017 12:39 pm
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It seems like a fair deal to match Ravening Horde book with Ravening Horde book. I would assume the High Elf and Dark Elf Ravening Horde books would be equally rebalanced. From what I've seen I wouldn't match my Ravening Horde Dark Elves against the real High Elf book.
I don't know how well or badly the AB for Brets matches the Ravening Hordes though. Since it's labeled AB, it might be balanced differently. Worth looking into!

If you do have some games, I'd be eager to read some reports and see how the books handle.

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"I move unseen. I hide in light and shadow. I move faster than a bird. No plate of armour ever stopped me. I strike recruits and veterans with equal ease. And all shiver at my coldest of whispers."
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Wed Feb 01, 2017 2:21 pm
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Quote:
From what I've seen I wouldn't match my Ravening Horde Dark Elves against the real High Elf book.


Indeed and my book vs the HE ravening horde didnt seem fair either. As his was struggling enough with the official VC book against ours. Dont want to crush his newly found enthusiasm for the game so soon.

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Wed Feb 01, 2017 4:13 pm
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Considering Ravening Hordes uses the same BRB as 8th edition, I'd propose we support Ravening hordes in the same forum alongside 8th ed. I'd only request to make it clear in the title whenever it's valid for Ravening Hordes only (ie: unit specific).

9th edition brings a more puzzling question. If we give it the 9th Age treatment, it deserves its own forum. But since we're a bit short on activity I wouldn't like to separate it from the busier forums just yet.
Which begs the question, where would people prefer to see it? In a joint forum with T9A? "Warhammer continued"? Other games?
Or supported in the WFB forum since it's still so close to it?

Is there any interest in that 9th edition?

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I love me a bowl of numbers to crunch for breakfast. If you need anything theoryhammered, I gladly take requests.

Furnace of Arcana, a warhammer blog with delusional grandeur.

"I move unseen. I hide in light and shadow. I move faster than a bird. No plate of armour ever stopped me. I strike recruits and veterans with equal ease. And all shiver at my coldest of whispers."
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Fri Feb 03, 2017 10:55 am
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Leave it in the main forums for now. When (or if) it ever gains enough momentum to need separating out, that can be done at need.

It DEFINITELY doesn't belong in the T9A forums. T9A is it's own game now with it's own background and only a surface resemblance to WFB. It's definitely not a Warhammer successor like Warhammer Armies. As such T9A should be separated out, even if the message volume is (or was?) low.


Fri Feb 03, 2017 11:26 pm
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van Awful wrote:
Has anybody ever tried out the Ravening list of the dark elves?
It looks a bit harder to manage with some troops going from core to special and from special to Rare.
Losing ASF , which is good in my opinion. Spider riders though? And it has a lot of rares, i think hydra did just fine as special.
What do you guys think?

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B_Redi9cZJ5iTU54RnNabndCSVU/viewparis taxi Airport

yes i've tried but RAS


Wed Jul 19, 2017 12:46 pm
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