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9th Age v .99 feedback 
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Corsair
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V.99 of 9th Age has been released here..
It is very, very close to the V1 version which will be used for the ETC.

Compared to 8th edition, all armies have been weakened, in order, in particular, to give a chance to non-elite troops.
It means that our DE army book will look weak, but on the other hand, the familiar combos that we have found hard to beat in other army books are gone, too.

There is a chance to make tiny minor changes before the first set of rules is made official, somewhere in April.
If you happen to play, please report back there:
V0.99 Feedback **Be Heard!!**


I also take the oppotunity to announce that I have been called into the Army book Support team.
This makes Druchii.net a privileged entry point to reach out the 9th Age creators.

mod edit: this is the form
[+] SPOILER
1) How do you feel about the core rule book changes in regards to your army?


2) How do you feel about the common and army specific magic item changes in regards to your army?


3) How do you feel about changes to the magic paths in regards to your army?


4) Please tell us how you feel about each of these special army rules after the v0.99 update.
a) Killer Instinct

b) Master of the Dark Arts

c) Aura of Despair

d) Alpha Predator

e) Fleet Commander EDIT: and Beast Master (/EDIT by Calisson)

f) Cults
i) Cult of Nabh

ii) Cult of Yema

iii) Cult Rivalry

iv) Cultist General

g)Beast Master

5) How do you feel about each of these units after the update?
a) Dread Prince

b) Exalted Oracle

c) Captain

d) Cult Priest
i) Nabh

ii) Yema

e) Oracle

f) Assassin

g) Dread Legionnaires

h) Repeater Auxiliaries

i) Corsairs

j) Dark Raiders

k) Blades of Nabh

l) Dancers of Yema

m) Executioners

n) Tower Guard

0) Raven Cloaks

p) Harpies

q) Dread Knights

r) Raptor Chariot

s) Hunting Chariot

t) Dread Reaper

u) Dark Acolytes

v) Medusas

w) Kraken

x) Hydra

y) Divine Altar

z) Mounts (seperatly as you can)


6) Please let us know about the overall performance of your army after the changes.


7) What play styles have been successful and which have not been successful for you?


8 ) Any other feedback concerning DE not mentioned above.

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Wed Mar 16, 2016 8:57 pm
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Highborn

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Can you copy the format of the feedback form here? I'm at work and can't access T9A page.


Thu Mar 17, 2016 9:13 am
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Corsair
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Already filled out the form, be cautious, that takes more than an hour!
Congratulations of being in the Army Book Support Team @Calisson
What does that role encompass?

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Mon Mar 21, 2016 9:45 am
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Corsair
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I'm supposed to help the liaison between the players and 9th Age team.
The old timers may remember that Druchii.net has been once influential enough to have GW publish a supplement to our 6th edition army book. This is the kind of relation that would be great to have, permanently rather than only once.
On the other direction, I have now a (partial) insider's access to the 9th Age team and their discussions, which should help me greatly to be able to provide replies to interrogations from the community.
At the moment, they gather the conclusions from experience of games played under. 99 rules to determine the necessary 1% changes before the long awaited 1st edition.
Note that chances are that the rulebook will have lots of fluff, descrribing all factions broadly, while most army books will have to wait months or years before they get more than rules. In particular because the art team draws slowly.

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Mon Mar 21, 2016 10:27 am
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Chief Cultist
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Good luck - I offered to help with the graphic design for the army book and it seemed very micro managed. I could not find a place to fit in :-(

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Mon Mar 21, 2016 11:50 pm
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Good job! :)

Will you be able to collect potential feedback written here, or should we post on the T9A forum to be sure?

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Tue Mar 22, 2016 8:53 pm
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I read everything posted here so either one is fine.
I already posted my feedback there.
Discussions started already to determine the very few changes.
You're welcome to post here or there and hope to have some influence by giving me convincing arguments.
Don't expect too much, though, but something is better than nothing.
(I'm the kind of guy able to see the glass 5% full, you know).

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Tue Mar 22, 2016 9:28 pm
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can we change the godawful cult names to something other than nabh and yema please?! what's wrong with blood and lust?!


Wed Mar 23, 2016 1:21 pm
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It's a pity, but right now I lack gaming experience with 9th to deliver any valuable contribution. However, if there's anything I can add to the Druchii Tools, I'd gladly help out.

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Wed Mar 23, 2016 1:32 pm
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Corsair
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toots wrote:
can we change the godawful cult names to something other than nabh and yema please?! what's wrong with blood and lust?!
No, this is carved in stone.
Reason is that they made all three Elven languages related to old irish.

At the moment, I'm struggling to try to make the rules more playable. The rulebook is great, but the DE army book seems a tad weaker than average.
If you guys could bring up more arguments about how to change the 1% which would make DE more playable, please tell me quickly.
Thanks.

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Wed Mar 23, 2016 2:48 pm
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Quote:

toots wrote:

can we change the godawful cult names to something other than nabh and yema please?! what's wrong with blood and lust?!


No, this is carved in stone.
Reason is that they made all three Elven languages related to old irish.


I agree they sound naf - why an irish influence?

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Wed Mar 23, 2016 2:52 pm
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Slave on the Altar

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Great that you are involved in 9th age. I am a long time reader of druchii and think that your contribution is a great addition.

I also think the DE book seems weaker.


Last edited by Asta on Thu Mar 24, 2016 12:36 am, edited 1 time in total.



Wed Mar 23, 2016 4:02 pm
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Cultofkhaine wrote:
Quote:

toots wrote:

can we change the godawful cult names to something other than nabh and yema please?! what's wrong with blood and lust?!


No, this is carved in stone.
Reason is that they made all three Elven languages related to old irish.


I agree they sound naf - why an irish influence?


Might be because of the Tuatha de danann gods/supernatural race coming to found Ireland. Why not, but I found it strange, there are lores and inspirations better suited imo with the svartalfar from scandinavian mythology (although the langage would sound too barbaric?) or the Elven langage and lore created by Tolkien.


Wed Mar 23, 2016 4:06 pm
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Slave on the Altar

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And what about the Menzoberanzan (lol spelling) Drow lore from Salvatore?

House Baenre Priestess, High Priestess, Sorcerer. Melee Magthere instructor, etc. Would have been awesome. Although there might be intellectual property involved. What a pity.


Wed Mar 23, 2016 4:11 pm
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Calisson wrote:
If you guys could bring up more arguments about how to change the 1% which would make DE more playable, please tell me quickly.


Not sure if this observation is generally valid but it seems we might be somewhat lacking in things that are fast and dangerous at the same time.

To be more precise, I have a fresh experience from a 5 games tournament this weekend. I was playing:

lvl4 on dragon, black magic, focus familiar, MR(3): 585

fleetmaster BSB, HA, shield, duskstone, hero’s sword: 198
assasin of bloody murder, distracting, ward save, cult of nabh, headman’s axe, dragonbane gem: 190

2x5 dark raiders, crossbows: 2x 100
20 spearmen, FCG: 185
15 blades of nabh, FCG, flaming banner: 240

2x 10 tower guards, FCG: 2x 140
3x bolt thrower, multishot: 3x 80

3 medusas, champion: 195
5 dark acolytes, champion: 180


There were some positives:
- acolytes and tower guards are really cool
- medusas and dragon sorceress are useful :shock:
- the games were generally enjoyable and more balanced than I would expect when bringing infantry MSU.

However, I noticed that almost everything was completely safe when parking 18 inches from my lines. Infantry can't charge that far; Medusas and dragon would need a 11; and acolytes can't be everywhere and can't beat everything. On the other hand, if the thing parking 18 inches away is, say, a unit of Knights of the Ryme, you can't just let it charge you. Even NotSkullcrushers can be bad as I wouldn't like to try a one-on-one fight with any of my units. As a result, I often found myself backing away which made contesting objectives somewhat complicated. :D

Also, when playing against two demonic engines (? Hellcannons :) ), I found out that it is quite difficult just getting to them without suffering a devastating countercharge given that infantry is generally slow, let alone to actually beat them. In the end, I was able to kill them but it was a pain.

The problem is that I don't know what to include to solve this, i.e. what fast and dangerous units do we actually have. Or at least fast and durable to pin something down before infantry arrives. Maybe my problem is just that I dislike hydras, they would solve a lot of issues. I am not convinced M7 would save me but I can't say much to back this.

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Wed Mar 23, 2016 10:18 pm
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BLOODY IRISH?! i'm setting my army aflame then!

re feedback, i generally quite like it. i don't think murderess prowess should have been taken from the cult units if they're charging for the points upgrade (to characters at least)... harpies still seem over-costed compared to demon furies and gyrocopters... DE crossbowmen still a point too much... witch elves i wouldn't consider taking given the massive points and murderess prowess being removed (S3 on T3 wounding only goes from 50% to 58% ignoring poison but it's still helpful)... dark riders are are bit pricey now... beastmaster upgrade is way over-costed! no chance i'm taking it - 40pts!!

magic items that i think are garbage are: amulet of spite (why??!), dagger of moraec (reducing casting values: not worth killing my own troops for)... actually only two. wow! i think the crimson mail/headsman's axe combination is a good one.

anyway, thanks so much for your efforts in the book development!



Calisson wrote:
toots wrote:
can we change the godawful cult names to something other than nabh and yema please?! what's wrong with blood and lust?!
No, this is carved in stone.
Reason is that they made all three Elven languages related to old irish.

At the moment, I'm struggling to try to make the rules more playable. The rulebook is great, but the DE army book seems a tad weaker than average.
If you guys could bring up more arguments about how to change the 1% which would make DE more playable, please tell me quickly.
Thanks.


Wed Mar 23, 2016 11:03 pm
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Well, I'm not sure we are finished with the nerf bat yet but I think the army will probably be ok. I think it really depends on your local scene on what is most effective and how willing you are to try different things to be successful. There was some early feedback posted here:

http://www.the-ninth-age.com/index.php? ... -20-march/

Ok only 16 guys but 3 DE in the top 5 is going to enrage people I'm sure. Personally, I'm just tired of playing DE, since to some if you win, it's because DE are ohh pee and it just turns into a bitchfest. So if the army is too weak, oh well.


Thu Mar 24, 2016 3:57 am
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Actually I just read the dwarf book. Executioners should be LD9 given their exorbitant points cost!!


Sat Mar 26, 2016 5:07 pm
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Yeah ld 8 isn't so hot. The dwarf book looks pretty interesting, their crowd-surfing midget king in a unit with +1 move banner is pretty good, it can march 12 and is 4+3d6 on the charge combining with their choppa rule. I suppose they can't spam their war machines but they are still the very reliable due to engineering rune. The hewn from mountain rule is pretty dirty if you ask me and the addition of objectives gives them a decent boost since fight areas are sort of known in advance.


Sat Mar 26, 2016 6:06 pm
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I actually like it. Makes Ld9 units more attractive (eg Tower Guard, although I think they are pretty solid right now tbh).

IMHO the issues to address in this version are:

- points for elite units after starting cost
- medusa
- cost of chaff (I don't get why Dark Elves aren't permitted any chaff under 75 points)
- raptor chariots might need a bit of attention, but I'm not sure what. Maybe a straight up points decrease.

Everything else is pretty solid I think. Everything else seems about equally viable now (The cult changes to Killer Instinct makes Corsairs over Nabh Cultists worthwhile), with a few viable build paths. Personally, I'm looking forwards to MMU around three blocks (Knights, Legionnaires, Tower Guard), which is something that I always wanted to to in 8th but just wasn't really viable.


Sat Mar 26, 2016 6:16 pm
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i just played dwarfs and... we have problems. they are incredibly tough compared to our pansy-ass army. wow.


- they had army-wide hatred on all my decent units (and even my spearmen - 4 grudges total) thanks to the grudges being against one unit now, not necessarily character. he had a war throne which gave him an additional D3 grudges for D3+1. very broken. army-wide hatred. should be like it used to be (rolling for it: against the general or one unit etc). (F)

- dwarfs are now the fastest army in the game, marching 3x movement and somehow having swiftstride within 6" of the war throne gives them swift stride. his main unit with the war throne had the movement banner was moving at 12" per turn. ftw. (F)

- the magic was also pretty rude in that his spells were only 5+ to cast but had massive redundancy, i.e. if he didn't get -1 to hit spell off, the re-roll to wound spell would be used instead. they are so damn cheap to cast damnit. 4+ if it's on his own unit. that was a hero-level smith. 5pts per spell so for 80pts you can have incredibly useful WS5 smiths with TWO spells who also give the unit armour-piercing and MR1. get the hell out! and for some bizarre reason all the casting costs of my spells were one higher than usual. Have also posted on T9A forum about the destroy scroll. It's auto-destroy now after letting the spell through. This is pretty outrageous as it completely debilitates anything but a level 4 after they lose a spell. IMHO it should be removed. I had a level 4 nature but pfft. (F)

- gyros are hard as hell for the points cost. 55pts per model, T5, 3 wounds with a 4+ save. 2D3 shots at S5, no penalties whatsoever for shooting over half range or moving 16". outrageous. unit of 3 of those or 10 harpies?! and they skirmish so you can't hit the damn things. outrageous. (F)

- dragon seeker (slayer heroes) can have 7 attacks base quite easily when touching 3 models (for a 25pt upgrade). they're only 50pts on their own. outrageous. the one i was fighting had 9 attacks. with his great weapon. for about 100pts. outrageous. T5. 6++. and slayers skirmish so it's not as if i can really shoot them particularly successfully with crossbows either. T4 and hitting on 6s... it's a non-starter. outrageous. (F)

- vengeance seeker. for some bizarre reason there's now a slayer in rare with initiative 10 and -1 to hit in combat and shooting. thanks. it has 3D3 attacks at S5 and of course all slayers blow up when you kill them anyway. get out. it's literally 60pts and is the hardest chaff i've ever seen. ftw. 5 harpies = 70pts. they can fly but can the kick the living shiz out of something? no. (F)

- hold guardians. these were hard and my executioners took a long time to defeat 6 of them. it was a world of pain to be honest, with the war altar giving the execs +1 attack each. execs die like clanrats. we definitely need murderess prowess back. (B)

- shield wall (5++) is perhaps understandable. (B)

- 'Sturdy' gives them thunderous charge so they get +1 strength when charging. bang out of order - this was created to encourage dwarfs to move forward and get into combat in 8th. it's outdated and needs to go. and we got murderess prowess removed from our executive clanrats? outrageous. a ridiculous rule introduced in one edition of the game. (F)

- 'Relentless' needs to be capped or just increase their damn movement to 4" and have done with it. it's not right they move faster than humans. or 4" but march 7" or something. 12"?!?!?!?!?! swiftstride?!!! you get the hell out! (F)

- and of course they all had LD9. execs should have LD9 back given their cost. outrageous. (F)

- in conclusion, the whole army was (at least) S4, T4 with armour-piercing and hatred and big armour saves. absolutely mental. the magic was simple and cheap and always useful. i had plenty of S3 attacks in the form of a spearmen block but S3 is almost useless against T5, of which he had ample supply. especially the gyros. they need to be T4 if they can fly AND skirmish. S3 attacks really need to be made a LOT cheaper. 11pts for a spearman with a shield is just too much. the majority of troops are T4 now, and i have to fill my core with S3?! ftw. damnit.

*exhale...*


toots wrote:
Actually I just read the dwarf book. Executioners should be LD9 given their exorbitant points cost!!


Last edited by toots on Sun Mar 27, 2016 3:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.



Sun Mar 27, 2016 1:33 pm
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Yeah, I honestly don't get the cost of some of the dwarf infantry or even skaven infantry, look at vermin guard (15 guys at 85) and greybeards (10 guys is 85). Vermin guard can still get a 50 point banner.

In the end, I doubt you'll find much sympathy, so many people are utterly convinced our book is broken, regardless of what you take. As to dwarves, well the corner hammer shiz was degenerate so I guess we will see what happens here, I can't see that argument for dwarves not at least trying to come out and fight.

Haha, that'll teach me, actually spear elves vs vermin guard even with razor banner is pretty close it looks. Who knows, must be good in the end.


Sun Mar 27, 2016 2:31 pm
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Highborn

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You should probably post that on t9a forums.


Sun Mar 27, 2016 2:56 pm
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Yeah have done, twice!

Clockwork wrote:
You should probably post that on t9a forums.


Sun Mar 27, 2016 3:44 pm
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Thanks for the report.
I don't know if Dwarfs will be changed between V.99 and V1 (most likely no more than 1%...).
When V1 will be released, we will have to give ample thought about how to optimize our army and how to handle our foes.

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Sun Mar 27, 2016 5:39 pm
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