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DE fluffy alternative lists 
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Joined: Fri Mar 14, 2008 10:00 pm
Posts: 8690
Location: Hag Graef
Here below, I try to develop alternative lists, inspired from Terracotta Army and Barrow Legion, UD book p.45-46.
The goal is to allow players for fluff to play armies which are not too much underpowered.
I wish the result to be slightly less powerful than a neutral army, but much more fluffy!
These "fluffy" lists will be all the more accepted by the opponent than they are perceived as not increasing the power of the army.

Note that I have only faint prospect to make them become official (testing and balancing would be required), and little prospect to see it accepted any soon. At minimum, we may develop these ideas in Homebrew 9th Age until more favorable times come.

If one or another option seems promising, then we may develop it in a separate thread.
Please discuss!

Beast Master’s Monster Mash: My Menagerie Is More Precious Than Any Infantry.
The General must have the Beast Master upgrade.
Beasts Are My Religion: Models belonging to any Cult may not be taken in the army, except Medusas.
Infantry is negligible: No Infantry unit may exceed 150 pts.
My Puppy!: For each Character with the Beast Master upgrade, a single Kraken, Hydra or Hunting Chariot may be taken as a Special choice instead of a Rare choice.
Subdue That Beast: Each character with BM upgrade who provides Hatred special rule to a unit may also provide his own Leadership but that will cause also -1 WS (riders are not affected).

Corsair raid: Embark Onboard My Felucca!
The General must have the Fleet Commander upgrade.
Crowded Vessel: Only Infantry models, or War Machines, or models including Elven Horse, or models with Strider (Water) may be taken.
Booty, Not Prayers: Models belonging to any Cult may not be taken in the army.
Landlubbers Stay Home: Dread Legionnaires, Repeater Auxiliaries, Tower Guards, Dark Acolytes are each limited to 0-1 (or 0-2 in a Grand Army).
Naval Gunfire: For each Character with the Fleet Commander upgrade, a single unit of Raven Cloaks, Hunting Chariot or Dread Reaper may be taken as a Special choice instead of a Rare choice.
Surprise Effect: One Corsair unit able to Vanguard may Ambush instead.
Slavers: No victory point is scored for Seized Standards, nor for Their King is Dead nor Their Flag is Down; instead, each unit destroyed when it broke from combat scores the double of its VP value.

Nabh Cult Pilgrimage: Destroy the Enemies of Nabh!
The General must have the Cult of Nabh upgrade and may not wear Heavy Armour.
Only True Believers: Magic-users of any kind may not be taken in the army.
No Impure Beasts: The only mounts permitted are Manticores and Altars. Units of cavalry, Monsters, Harpies and chariots (else than the Altar) may not be taken in the army.
Masses Of Believers: Blades of Nabh and Executioners may be taken in units with 20 more models than normally permitted.
Praise The Altar: Divine Altars (mounts and units) may gain the special rule "War Platform" as an upgrade for 30 pts.
Drench Your Blades: Cult Priests and the General may gain a poison brew as an option for 25 pts, which gives the special rule Poisoned Attacks to the units belonging to Cult of Nabh they join.

Note: the lack of magic is designed to avoid units which insta-kill anything they touch.

Yema Cult Pilgrimage: Agility And Mind Control.
The General must have the Cult of Yema upgrade and may not wear Heavy Armour.
No Disgusting Animals: The only mounts permitted are Elven Horses, Raptors, Pegasus and Altars. Monsters and Harpies may not be taken in the army.
Spirit Beats Technology: Raptor Chariots, Hunting Chariots and Dread Reapers may not be taken in the army.
Wave Of Terror: Once per game, the General may cause a wave of terror: all models having the special rule Aura of Despair gain the special rule Terror until the end of the player’s turn.

Winds never stop blowing, Oceans are borderless. Get a ship and a crew, so the World will be ours! Today the World, tomorrow Nagg! {--|oBrotherhood of the Coast!o|--}

Mon May 02, 2016 10:21 pm
Malekith's Best Friend
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Joined: Tue Jun 04, 2013 4:25 pm
Posts: 1007
Location: Delft
Cool! I will try them out :D

The 13th Legion

Tue May 03, 2016 11:09 am
Malekith's Personal Guard

Joined: Sun Feb 14, 2010 12:13 am
Posts: 987
If only they all didn't start with the premise of weakening internal balance...

Tue May 03, 2016 5:18 pm
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Joined: Fri Mar 14, 2008 10:00 pm
Posts: 8690
Location: Hag Graef
Thanks for looking.

The reason I started by restrictions is that I assume this to be the natural start for players who want to reflect as much as they can some fluff.
Then the benefits are here to compensate for that loss of balance.

Now if these restrictions seem not reasonable, everything is open for discussion.
If you propose some modifications, just make sure that the result does not make a stronger power level than the regular army book.

Winds never stop blowing, Oceans are borderless. Get a ship and a crew, so the World will be ours! Today the World, tomorrow Nagg! {--|oBrotherhood of the Coast!o|--}

Wed May 04, 2016 4:12 am
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Joined: Fri Apr 26, 2013 7:53 am
Posts: 594
The more I think about this, the more I wonder if this is the right approach. Not that your suggestions are bad per se, they are some fun lists. But they would be hard to balance (the fleet list could field LOTS of shooting for example which was specifically denied to us by moving all quality shooting to rare) and, more importantly, they do not help people who want to build their fluff differently (a small coastal city could well have spearmen and harpies and suddenly, you can't use the fleet list).

A far better way (from my perspective) of introducing fluffiness to the game is to ensure units behave in the field as expected - to give them special rules, generic or specific, that underline their personality. A few examples I consider good:

- witch elves were always frenzy, of course. Note that frenzy might not go so well with the personality of blades - no idea since I know nothing about the new fluff.
- bretonnian knights were always so chivalric they were protecting their damsels by keeping them in the second rank
- old swordmasters were so good with a sword they could deflect arrows
- longbeards are so grumpy they not only are ITP but they even lend ITP to nearby allies
- the new infernal dwarves kadim titan has such a mastery over fire that defending against him with usual ways is difficult (reroll 2++ against fire); on the other hand, it is a demon that cannot be truly bound and thus has a chance of losing wounds each turn, and it will be more wounds if no friendly mages are present on the battlefield. Note that this basically means that you only want to field a titan together with a mage which is similar to a cult restriction; but it is not a hard requirement and relates to a model you probably want to field anyway. The other result of this rule is that the dwarf has to protect his mages even more than usual. No redirecting with a lvl1 scroll caddy. Which is interesting.

I think we actually don't need that much because some good fluffy parts are already there. The workflow should be something like:
- decide what identity a unit should have; maybe not for every unit but surely for the important ones - the ones one pays big points for
- insert rules to underline this

Dancers are very good in this - they are versatile fighters able to improvise quickly, awesome.
Tower guard has some hints - they have two units that identify them as unyielding protectors (ITP, bodyguard). I don't know though how much appeal unmovable elven protectors have when they consist of expensive T3 5+ models.
Executioners are hinting on something, too - they probably really know where to strike a human - but it looks somehow unfinished. If the rules aim to reflect how precise are they strikes, why doesn't the multiple wounds rule work on monsters? If they know human anatomy really well, why do they have the lethal strike? Both options seem equally probable and so, I don't know how to actually envision them.

And last but not least, why do we actually ride on raptors? :D

The Lost Colony defenders - Rowena's painting log

Alternative Armies - because we can build any army without GW!

Sun May 15, 2016 6:58 am
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