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Would this army work in T9A? 
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Beastmaster
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Howdy!

If anyone still remembers me, congrats! I used to be one of the regulars on Warhammer-Empire, and was becoming a semi-regular here as I'd started making a Dark Elf army. Then stuff happened, and no Warhammer for me for the last 10 years or so. Anyways, as the owner of a half-ready Dark Elf army, I wondered, would the army concept I thought of back then still work in T9A? Here's a 4500 pt list, just something I threw together quickly, so not definitive, but it should illustrate the concept:

Dread Prince: Raptor Chariot, Sprout of Rebirth, Bluffer's Helm, Great Weapon [540 pts]
Captain: Raptor Chariot, Talisman of Supreme Shielding, Great Weapob, BSB [446 pts]
Oracle: 3 spells [300]

Raptor Chariot [190 pts]
Raptor Chariot [190 pts]
30 Dread Legionnaires: Command, Spears [540 pts]
30 Dread Legionnaires: Command, Spears [540 pts]
30 Dread Legionnaires: Command, Spears [540 pts]
10 Repeater Auxiliaries: Command, Shields [280 pts]
5 Dark Raiders: Champion, Standard, Repeater Crossbows, Shields [270 pts]
5 Dark Raiders: Champion, Standard, Repeater Crossbows, Shields [270 pts]
5 Harpies [130 pts]
5 Harpies [130 pts]
5 Harpies [130 pts]

The idea is basically to form a battleline with the 3 spearelf blocks 5 wide 6 deep, with gaps in between large enough for the chariots. The general and the BSB go on each side of the middle block, and the two other chariots go on both ends of the line, i.e.

Chariot --- Spearelves --- GeneralChariot --- Spearelves --- BSBChariot --- Spearelves --- Chariot

Thus, each spearelf block can draw on up to two chariots for combat support, and the two middle chariots with the characters are able to support one of two spearelf blocks depending on need. Combined charges by spearelves and chariots are meant to break the enemy by a combination of kills and spearelf rank bonuses and steadfast negation from their 6 ranks. When advancing towards the enemy, the spearelves are allowed to outrun the chariots, it's preferable that the spearelves absorb any incoming enemy charges. With fairly deep formations for steadfast and nearby general and BSB, they should be able to hold for a turn until chariots charge in on my next turn.

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Fri Feb 03, 2017 9:46 pm
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Malekith's Personal Guard

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Too much S3, nowhere near enough anti-armor/anti-high-toughness. You've basically got the chariot charges, and then you're boned.

Why magic? Witchfire from miscasts is pretty much specifically designed to blow up elves, and it'll do it quite thoroughly. (WotDG, on the other hand, laugh at it.) Better for elves to go no magic and just use the banner and not-a-dispel-scroll (80 points between the two, IIRC), and spend the points on more troops. You win three times over - you have more troops because you didn't spend points on weak and ineffective magic, you nullify your opponent's anti-magic points, and you DON'T lose expensive but fragile models during the game.


Sat Feb 04, 2017 12:27 am
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Beastmaster
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Well, both the characters in the chariots are wielding can openers, but fair point. Would it help to squeeze in a bunch of bolt throwers? Maybe ditch the wizard and the repeater auxiliaries.

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Sat Feb 04, 2017 12:20 pm
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Malekith's Personal Guard

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I'd exchange at least one of the spear blocks for a true can-opener unit - Executioners, Tower Guard, or Raptor Knights.

Another thing to consider. DE units are priced with Altar upgrades in mind. Not taking an altar means you're down capability you're paying for.


Sat Feb 04, 2017 11:56 pm
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Beastmaster
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Have buff wagons really become that kind of no-brainer in T9A?

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Sun Feb 05, 2017 10:44 am
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Malekith's Personal Guard

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For the armies that have them, yes.

It goes contrary to their stated agenda of 'no auto-includes', but that hasn't stopped them from making buffwagons effectively auto-includes. You don't strictly need to take one if they're available, but you're handicapping yourself pretty significantly if you don't.

Especially since buffing things with magic is a) less reliable than ever, b) less effective than ever, and c) likely to cost you a hefty chunk of the unit you bunkered the caster in regardless of whether the spell is effective or not.


Sun Feb 05, 2017 10:58 pm
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Corsair
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Konrad von richtmark wrote:
If anyone still remembers me, congrats! I used to be one of the regulars on Warhammer-Empire
I do remember your avatar, but from W-E. Image

Vulcan wrote:
It goes contrary to their stated agenda of 'no auto-includes', but that hasn't stopped them from making buffwagons effectively auto-includes. You don't strictly need to take one if they're available, but you're handicapping yourself pretty significantly if you don't.

Sad but true.
The reason why DE is being remade in the first batch of 4 AB is precisely because there are too many fixes to do.
Including the near-autoinclude wagon.

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Mon Feb 06, 2017 2:18 am
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Beastmaster
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Well, it wouldn't be bad in that army concept, I suppose. It could go nicely in the middle spearelf unit. That 5++ save it radiates would help keep the characters in the chariots alive, so I could pay for the thing by dropping the wards from the characters.

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Mon Feb 06, 2017 5:22 am
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Shade
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T9A is so well balanced that pretty much everything is viable.

Now the difference between T9A auto includes and previous edition auto includes is the margin of difference.
If you dont take auto include such as a buff wagons you are simply a little less effective but still pull off a decent game or even win. Previous editions with GW poor rules, if you dont take auto includes then its not even worth putting your army on the table because you just get destroyed - you are literally lucky to kill even 1 enemy unit.

So what's nice for newbs with a well balanced game like T9A is that you can cobble together pretty much any kind of army selection and still have a fun game. The rules might be a big learning curve though.


Mon Feb 06, 2017 10:31 am
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Malekith's Personal Guard

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My experience with T9A is quite different from yours, Peacemaker. Maybe for TOURNAMENT level players it's balanced and viable - especially in team tournaments where you have some control over your matchups - but for average players in pickup games it's quite different.

But then team tournaments are T9A's bread and butter...


Mon Feb 06, 2017 10:56 pm
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Vulcan wrote:
But then team tournaments are T9A's bread and butter...

Butter maybe, certainly not bread. :)

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Winds never stop blowing, Oceans are borderless. Get a ship and a crew, so the World will be ours! Today the World, tomorrow Nagg! {--|oBrotherhood of the Coast!o|--}


Mon Feb 06, 2017 11:33 pm
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Malekith's Personal Guard

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Perhaps the OP should repost in the T9A section to get a wider variety of opinions.


Tue Feb 07, 2017 12:14 am
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Vulcan wrote:
Perhaps the OP should repost in the T9A section to get a wider variety of opinions.
Good point.
Moved.

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Winds never stop blowing, Oceans are borderless. Get a ship and a crew, so the World will be ours! Today the World, tomorrow Nagg! {--|oBrotherhood of the Coast!o|--}


Tue Feb 07, 2017 4:34 am
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Slave on the Altar

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The_Peacemaker wrote:
T9A is so well balanced that pretty much everything is viable.

Now the difference between T9A auto includes and previous edition auto includes is the margin of difference.
If you dont take auto include such as a buff wagons you are simply a little less effective but still pull off a decent game or even win. Previous editions with GW poor rules, if you dont take auto includes then its not even worth putting your army on the table because you just get destroyed - you are literally lucky to kill even 1 enemy unit.

So what's nice for newbs with a well balanced game like T9A is that you can cobble together pretty much any kind of army selection and still have a fun game. The rules might be a big learning curve though.


This is the kind of propaganda that I really cant stand in "9".

As for the poster, Dark elves are one of the few armies that were messed up in 9, bland, dull, overpriced, not fun at all.
Take 1 unit of:
- raptors
- and/or tower guard
- Add in the altar
- Try to make a list with all the limitations


Sun Feb 12, 2017 2:49 pm
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@Asta
Truth lies in the middle.
We receive at T9A many praises about the balance of the game, always described as way better than WH8th or previous editions ever were.
The complaints we sometimes receive about lack of balance are always about internal balance, within an army book, and even then it is still better than WH8th for most of it.
DE are known to be an exception, as I mentioned already above, with an army book which needs heavy fix. That is the only reason why DE will get that fix sooner than most factions.

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Winds never stop blowing, Oceans are borderless. Get a ship and a crew, so the World will be ours! Today the World, tomorrow Nagg! {--|oBrotherhood of the Coast!o|--}


Sun Feb 12, 2017 4:49 pm
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Shade
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Asta wrote:
The_Peacemaker wrote:
T9A is so well balanced that pretty much everything is viable.

Now the difference between T9A auto includes and previous edition auto includes is the margin of difference.
If you dont take auto include such as a buff wagons you are simply a little less effective but still pull off a decent game or even win. Previous editions with GW poor rules, if you dont take auto includes then its not even worth putting your army on the table because you just get destroyed - you are literally lucky to kill even 1 enemy unit.

So what's nice for newbs with a well balanced game like T9A is that you can cobble together pretty much any kind of army selection and still have a fun game. The rules might be a big learning curve though.


This is the kind of propaganda that I really cant stand in "9".

As for the poster, Dark elves are one of the few armies that were messed up in 9, bland, dull, overpriced, not fun at all.
Take 1 unit of:
- raptors
- and/or tower guard
- Add in the altar
- Try to make a list with all the limitations


It wasn't propaganda because I was referring to version 1.0 or 1.1
If people are having horrible experiences than its probably because they are very bad at the game, their opponent is really good, or they are playing v1.3

1.3 was slapped together quickly because of copyright reasons.

This game is about ranks, flanks, hammer and avil.
So no matter what army you chose, mixed arms approach is the best way to learn. So a little bit of everything.
If you just spam one thing then someone is probably going be able to counter it


Sun Feb 26, 2017 1:07 pm
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