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How to play without BSB? 
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Malekith's Best Friend
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Joined: Tue Jun 04, 2013 4:25 pm
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Location: Delft
So in my latest list I have the option between a Prince on Manticore that is really good and a BSB on a Manticore that is much worse but gives the re-roll.

Now my question is, how do you play without BSB?

I have a 18" bubble of leadership 10 and gave re-roll panic tests to my bigger infantry hordes. Other than that it is a monster mash with several units of chaff.

Do you have experience with playing without a BSB, then please share your experiences.

I know it might be a crazy idea, but I do not expect to lose many combats and have several high LD monsters backed with great board control. In all cases my Manticore character will be supporting my Dragon far forward anyway, so several units might not even be in range of the re-roll.

The 13th Legion

Sat Feb 24, 2018 1:27 am
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When I play, I usually play without BSB, but that is for small games, and it usually results in a loss.
Probably not the best experience to share.

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Sun Feb 25, 2018 9:00 pm
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Joined: Fri Apr 26, 2013 7:53 am
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Well, playing without a BSB is usually a very bad idea. You've surely heard some stories where someone misplaced or lost his BSB and then lost something important because of a failed Ld test. My favourite is when I flank charged a horde of greatswords with a small unit of dark riders, won by 1 and ran them down after they failed their Ld8 stubborn.

There was a time when I was playing three pegasus riders, one of which was the BSB. I found out that the ability to move my reroll circle 20 inches every turn was often far more valuable than the mobility of his killing potential alone. On the other hand, there were times when I split my forces and one part of my army was without the rerolls. Sometimes it worked.

The main question is how much do you need the rerolls with your specific army and in your specific meta. I think monster mash might be an army that doesn't need them that much. Quite often it shouldn't be that hard to keep everything more than 6 inches apart (no panics from destroyed units), monsters can't panic from a few wounds inflicted by shooting and never roll for fear, and if you are able to pick your fights well, maybe you won't even be losing combats. But mitigation of this kind will affect your gameplay severely. Would you let a small unit of heavy cavalry flank charge your dragon or a monster? It would be risky but playing it safe would restrict your options heavily. Similarly, a manticore lord can only get 4 combat resolution from a challenge. If your opponent has charge, 3 ranks and 2 banners, you are testing on Ld8 without reroll... would you allow it?

So, I would advise to fit the BSB in somehow if possible. A naked guy on foot costs 200 points but can make a huge difference. If that is not possible, well, try it without and see how it goes. Do you have a friend that plays Equitaine? I think he could give you many of the headaches I mentioned in one package. :)

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Sat Mar 03, 2018 6:31 pm
Malekith's Best Friend
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I think a BSB is the best 25 points you can spend anywhere but that's just me...

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Sun Mar 04, 2018 1:53 am
Malekith's Best Friend
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Joined: Tue Jun 04, 2013 4:25 pm
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Convinced, he is in again. I want to be able to play agressive with my monsters and not fear those flank charges or going into a infantry unit alone.

Instead I kitted the BSB on Manticore with a 2+ AS and 4+ Regen instead of the Midnight Cloak so he becomes as well protected as the Prince. Lost combat potential is indeed wasted in challenges.

Thanks for the feedback!

The 13th Legion

Sun Mar 04, 2018 6:10 am
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You can play without a BSB, but you should make sure of the following if you want to do so:

1. Try to take higher leadership troops - i.e. 9 or above rather than 8.
2. Better yet, try to take troops who don't need to take leadership tests or have leadership bonuses (i.e. those with ITP, Fear, Frenzy, Unbreakable, and/or Subborn)
3. Try to avoid taking massive blocks of troops - one or two small units running away is fine: losing a gigantic block is catastrophic.
4. Try to keep the general in the middle somewhere to give his own boost to everyone around.
5. Grease the palms of the dice gods and pray that they shower you with many ones and twos and not so many fives and sixes on your leadership tests.

But, as others have said, why would you?

P.S. the above is based upon 8th ed because I've never played 9th. I imagine the points above are predominantly still true in 9th ed though.

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Mon Mar 05, 2018 6:00 am
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Joined: Mon Feb 25, 2013 11:24 pm
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My experience comes mostly from BSB dying right away.

You want to go more the MSU and shooty route. Strategy is to whittle down with magic and shooting, then combo charge for the wipe out. Obviously need harpies. Chariots and dark raiders are good choices. Blades of Nabh are ok too.

But either way, a BSB manticore miight lose 1 attack but it also gets +1 combat rez from banner. Sure there is no room for magic weapon. You get slightly less agil, off, def. But overall, BSB is worth it,

Wed Mar 14, 2018 7:10 am
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