2k VS Skaven! Next stop, Domination Station! ALL ABOARD!

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Jvh792
Highborn
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Joined: Tue Feb 01, 2011 6:32 am

2k VS Skaven! Next stop, Domination Station! ALL ABOARD!

Post by Jvh792 »

Welcome to the Pain Train. Wooooo Wooooo... Next stop, domination station!
I've seen many people scratching their heads when fighting Rats. Maybe this can help?
My list was:
41 Spears MU, SB
40 Spears MU, SB
20 Black Guard MU, SB
20 Black Guard MU, SB
20 Witch Elves MU, SB Flame Banner
5 Harpies
5 Harpies
5 Harpies
Hydra
LVL 4 death Sorc, Peg, Pok, Dispell Scroll

My idea was to use the Spear Busses to take Steadfast from the Slave Hordes (if he ran them in busses it wouldn't work, but they would be easier to avoid as well.

Deployment looked like this:
Image
We agree to play Battle Line. I win the roll and throw out some harpies. My deployment strategy is basically to wait until he puts down the Hell Pit Abomination, and then I'll drop my Flame banner witches across from it. I put my spears across from his slaves along with 1 killy unit so that I can break them in one round of combat and get into his real points.
DE T1
Image
Movement:

I won the roll and advanced full tilt into him with my plan of action in place. The hydra hid from the Warp lightning cannons behind a building. Harpies went right for the cannons so the hydra could come out and play.

Magic: none

Shooting: none

Combat: nope

Skaven T1
Image
Movement:

Surprisingly, he advances. Perhaps over eager to start the bloodshed. Fine with me. The HPA comes right at the black guard. I know they are stubborn, so I'm thrilled... But he doesn't make it. Even better. He is free points next turn. The right flank black guard begin to hunt some rats.

Magic:

A single rat sails across the field and lands on his feet. He goes for a Sear, which I chuck all of my dice at and dispel.

Shooting:

A few harpies die, but I moved the sorc over their for the leadership bubble, so they were fine. A doom rocket goes off in my flank killing 7 spears.

Combat: Nope.

DE T2
Image
Movement:

The Dark elf general shrieks, "CHARRRRGE!" But the spears and hydra ignore her, not wanting to get bogged down by slaves, and then turned into clanrats. Instead, S2 goes up to cover the flank of the black guard. The HPA is flank charged by WE. The harpies get into the flank of a cannon and overrun into the other allowing them to fight twice. Very cool. BG2 also ignore the general and opted to stay away from the Grey Seer until a more oportune moment.

Magic:

I snipe a 15 point engineer. Whoohoo!

Shooting: nope

Combat:

The HPA dies horribly with a wretched gurgling noise. Poor guy. The Lightning cannons don't enjoy their dinner with the harpies either (since they were the menu), they all overrun off the field to deny the points.

Skaven T2
Image
Movement:

Slaves crash into the spears and the Bell Seer Commits to the left flank. The other clan rats seem to have some sort of plan against the black guard. I get more curious than nervous.

Magic:

The Bell Rings True. Elves grab their ears and a few heads explode. The Hydra loses two of his own. He goes for a Sear. This will cripple my spears and makes them unable to take away steadfast from the slaves. Can't have that. So I risk getting the 13th into my black guard, hoping he doesn't double 6 on his roll so I can Scroll it. I chuck all my dice at the Sear and dispel it handily. He then rolls up a 13th, but doesn't get his double 6 on 5 dice and 3 warp stone tokens and I pop the scroll.

Shooting:

Lots of witches die to the Ratling gun, but they don't care much. A warpfire thrower kills a slave. We laugh.

Combat:

The combat is extremely close and I realize that I vastly underestimated the power of the slaves. Without hatred next round, I will probably lose.

DE T3
Image
Movement:

The witches charge into the flank of the Ratling Gun in order to overrun into the clannies. The Black Guard charge the clannies head on. The other unit of spears come to help their buddies and the Hydra covers their flank. The Sorc flies up to snipe a grey seer.

Magic:

The grey seer is hit by Fate of Bjuna 11 times, dies in spite a 2+ ward save VS magic and the rats flee for their lives. My opponent shakes my hand and we begin to pack up our things.

Post game thoughts:

Only having 1 character was amazing. I will never lose a fight if I plan well, so why take a BSB. I took extra care to make sure that all my units stay above 14 models so they don't get 13th. I felt like I out numbered him, which was a fun feeling. Being charcter light versus the rats really is the way to go.

MVP's. Harpies got their points back and saved the hydra's life.

The TRUE MVP was the sorceress. Death lore is too strong versus the Rats. Sniping characters, lowering the general's leadership bubble by 3. Ruining horde's killing power with -1s/-1t... Scary stuff. Purple Sun did nothing, but eh... Didn't expect it to. Didn't need it to. The HPA fell for the trap.

2000-0 victory versus rats.
"With hate, all things are possible." - Malus Darkblade
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Dalamar
Dragon Lord
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Re: 2k VS Skaven! Next stop, Domination Station! ALL ABOARD!

Post by Dalamar »

When your witch elves flank charged the HPA, they should have overran, exposing their flank to the two blocks of rats beside them.
Frenzied units have to pursue/overrun.
7th edition army book:
Games Played: 213
Games Won: 114 (54%)
Games Drawn: 33 (15%)
Games Lost: 66 (31%)

8th Edition army book W/D/L:
Druchii: 36/4/16
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Jvh792
Highborn
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Joined: Tue Feb 01, 2011 6:32 am

Re: 2k VS Skaven! Next stop, Domination Station! ALL ABOARD!

Post by Jvh792 »

You're right. They did overrun, they just went forwards for some reason. I can't remember why we decided that... I think because the Black Guard were in the way? We didn't know if that was right, so we agreed to just roll for it.
"With hate, all things are possible." - Malus Darkblade
Cold73
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Location: the Netherlands

Re: 2k VS Skaven! Next stop, Domination Station! ALL ABOARD!

Post by Cold73 »

Good to see your stratagy work.
Just as an excercise...what would you have done if the Skaven player had placed his warmachines in the middle/behind his units?
instead of uselessly on the flanks.

I know from experience that one average shot can kill about 20-25 spearman in 40 spearman bus.
[CENTER]Image[/CENTER]
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Jvh792
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Re: 2k VS Skaven! Next stop, Domination Station! ALL ABOARD!

Post by Jvh792 »

I threw out my Peg Sorc as a juicy target for him to attempt to kill, knowing her PoK keeps her safe. He sunk all his shots into her and got no wounds. But she can die easily if a wound does go through, so it was a big risk. Just don't let her face a ratling gun.

Chucking out a hydra as a sacrifice is another option if the ranks are more important to your strategy.

If he put them behind his lines I would still use the harpies to hunt them. That's why I took 3 units of them. Even 4 units would still make back their points for the amount of my army that they would save. And if he focuses all his shooting on stopping them? THANKS! Chances are that I'm also gunna get a flank charge into them and be able to overrun into the next and the next and the next in one turn (if you set t up right). Even if he took out a huge part of the spear bus, oh well, there were much juicier targets for him to shoot, so I just count my blessings and move that bus to the flank and stay away from combats that it can't win. I'd use it to flank and take away rank bonuses in a close fight.

I also am not afraid to make aggressive charges with them. For instance, in this game I got in from about 18 inches, 19, and 20 inches away.

He admitted that putting them so close together was a mistake. Since it allowed me to overrun into the other machine.

Remember, you don't have to kill them all, just make them run, which is easy. Win a combat by just 1 and a rat war machine will likely run.
"With hate, all things are possible." - Malus Darkblade
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Jvh792
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Re: 2k VS Skaven! Next stop, Domination Station! ALL ABOARD!

Post by Jvh792 »

Also, notice I didn't take a shield on my guys. That way they cost less when they die to shooting. Same reason I didn't take RXB or Corsairs.
"With hate, all things are possible." - Malus Darkblade
Cycloptic squirrel
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Re: 2k VS Skaven! Next stop, Domination Station! ALL ABOARD!

Post by Cycloptic squirrel »

Did you know you were facing skaven? I really like the mass of spears you took, but I shudder to think how it would fare against knight heavy empire or chaos warriors. Not taking a BSB seems really risky, but then I've never tried a list without it - it was interesting to see how it worked out. Congrat on the victory!
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Jvh792
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Re: 2k VS Skaven! Next stop, Domination Station! ALL ABOARD!

Post by Jvh792 »

Ya, our league works in a way that you get to redo your list every game and are welcome and encouraged to tailor it to you opponent.
Against heavy cav they would be fine until help got their since they would probably hold on steadfast. Then Black guard would chop them down from the flank.
Against warriors of chaos, I don't see another unit that I would rather have. RXB fire tickles chaos and that's all. And corsairs are too point expensive to die like flies to chaos.
Ya, I wouldn't run no BSB usually, but I had no shooting (so no quick reform) and was going into a far inferior close combat force, so why bother? Waste of point when I could have a unit of 20 witches.

Although, if we ever did a tournament, I would probably run a list similar to this list since we have so many rat players. The problem most DE players have against Rats is that most of us go very very character heavy. That hurts us a lot since beating skaven is a numbers game. Winning combats is a moot point against them. They plan to lose every combat they enter into.
"With hate, all things are possible." - Malus Darkblade
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