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Thraundils battle log game 56: UB tournament Round One! 
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Miscast into the Warp
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Nice write up thanks, they do indeed seem mighty hard to catch even with a fast list. Can't really find fault with your analysis, haven't tried life lore with my peg list as yet, mostly been relying on Dark, but may well give it a shot. Congratulations on the win however.

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Fri Jun 06, 2014 1:54 pm
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Trouble is ETC comp pack means if you take a lvl 4 on mount, you cant take ANY warlocks. And a dark sorc on foot just dont cut it imo, the lore is built for a mounted wizzy. I dont fancy having my lvl 4 on foot within 18" range of anything important enough to doombolt, and black horror is a bit sketchy even with its range. Most stuff that is threatening when close, have high S anyway.

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Equipment: Staff, longsword, dagger, 20 gold, insignia ring.
Skills: Power of Aqshy (2), defensive figthing
WS4, S2, T3, D4, I6.


Fri Jun 06, 2014 3:29 pm
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Thraundil wrote:
Trouble is ETC comp pack means if you take a lvl 4 on mount, you cant take ANY warlocks. And a dark sorc on foot just dont cut it imo, the lore is built for a mounted wizzy. I dont fancy having my lvl 4 on foot within 18" range of anything important enough to doombolt, and black horror is a bit sketchy even with its range. Most stuff that is threatening when close, have high S anyway.



What if you don't upgrade her magic? Does ETC distinguish between level 3 and 4? You could get by with a 3.


Sat Jun 07, 2014 4:37 pm
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You Can still have 5 warlocks and a mounted SS with death/dark.

No, they do not differentiate between lv 3 and 4

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Sat Jun 07, 2014 7:06 pm
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Thanks for the write up, Thraundil :)

A very instructive game. I really like your opponents list -- Wild Riders and Warhawks make for such a good team; the Glade Riders pop up to be annoying once the game is underway; the Sisterbus very hard to pin down; and the Waywatchers ...nothing more needs to be said :lol:

Your own list is very strong, and I could see this Wood Elf list running rings around Dark Elf lists without a preponderance of flying characters like your own.

I also like your use of Life magic -- it supports your advance but has the sting of Dwellers potential for later in the game.

Well played & let us know how you get on with the list at tournaments 8)

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Sat Jun 07, 2014 7:42 pm
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Scyloc wrote:
You Can still have 5 warlocks and a mounted SS with death/dark.

No, they do not differentiate between lv 3 and 4


Whoops, true. Good spot, actually :p I may have to reconsider my list! I could have a unit of 10 dark riders, 2 units of 5, 5 locks and a SS with death on steed :P

The rest of you who commented; cheers =) yeah unless you have a hard mobile list, you're never gonna beat such a wood elf army. Not even close! And I was even lucky to dispel with 4 DD vs his 5 PD. I only won the game 'cos he rolled low on that cast, really. The pincer was still valid, of course, since he was 100% dependent on the spell to get through =]

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Name: Ladry (female)
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Equipment: Staff, longsword, dagger, 20 gold, insignia ring.
Skills: Power of Aqshy (2), defensive figthing
WS4, S2, T3, D4, I6.


Sat Jun 07, 2014 7:55 pm
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Hi,

nice game, compliments. :) Just two quick questions:

First, I was surprised that in turn 3 you did not charge the waywatchers with your warlocks. Was it because you were already starting the encirclement?

Second, what did you burn your scroll on? I wonder if it should be kept in reserve for a walk between worlds like the one in your battle. But arcane unforging is crippling with the list like yours... could you survive if you used your dice for unforging and scroll for the one crucial walk between worlds, meaning you would eat all the soul quenches and fiery convocations?

And thank you for writing this up. :)

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Sat Jun 07, 2014 8:31 pm
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Hey Marchosias, thanks for the comments :)

I did not charge with the warlocks because I wanted to pressure his caster bus. I should probably just have gone ahead and charged them, but I had all my focus on the bus. I wanted to catch it, so I set all sails on the job :P

And yes, true. I scrolled in his turn 3 I believe. He had 5 PD to 3 DD, and chose to toss them all in an argane unforging on my BSB, who had been a sitting duck for his waywatchers without his ward save (at this point his charmed shield was, I believe, gone). So I opted to scroll that one out. If at all possible, next time i face high magic woodies, I will of course conserve the scroll if at all possible... Maybe even at the cost one one hero :p

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Name: Ladry (female)
Class: Mage (Pyromancer)
Equipment: Staff, longsword, dagger, 20 gold, insignia ring.
Skills: Power of Aqshy (2), defensive figthing
WS4, S2, T3, D4, I6.


Sun Jun 08, 2014 11:46 am
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Nice game Thraundil. It is very interesting to see just how slippery their AB is. I have my first game against them 6/22, and am pretty worried about how my MSU list will fare.

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Mon Jun 09, 2014 6:15 pm
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YAY!

Back again with 3 more text-only battle reps. Write up from a singles ETC tourney as per use, that I played just yesterday! Without further ado:

Thraundils list:

Dreadlord, SDC, shield, lance, cloak of twilight, dawnstone, dragonhelm, pegasus
Lvl 4 with obsidian lodestone (MR2), dispel scroll, lore of life and dark steed
Master, BSB, HA, SDC, talisman of preservation, charmed shield, lance, pegasus
Master, SDC, shield, armor of destiny, lance, pegasus
Master, SDC, enchanted shield, other tricksters shard, talisman of endurance, lance, crossbow, pegasus <-- trick. Swap heavy armor + shield for enchanted shield saves 1 point ;)

3x5 DR, shields
10 Darkshards, mus
19 darkshards, flaming banner and mus

4 RBT
5 shades
9 warlocks

As you can see, 4 pegasus chars with 1+ save, and wards all around. I chose lore of life this time around to complement the heroes. They are the ones making points for me, and being able to heal stray wounds back up is a great tactical advantage.


Game 1: Wood Elves

His list was roughly:
Lvl 4 shadow
Lvl 2 life
BSB
19 glade guard, FC, poison
10 glade guard, poison, mus
10 glade guard, poison, mus
5 glade riders
2x5 wild riders
8 wild riders, FC, flaming banner
Great eagle
Treeman
2x5 waywatchers

At a glance a very immobile list, as far as wood elves go. He got pit, mind razor, withering and miasma for the lvl 4, and uhm, toughness and signature on the lvl 2. I got flesh to stone, shield of thorns, throne of vines and dwellers.

Terrain saw a large hill and two forests on his side of the map (one was his own venom thicket), and a small hill, some woods and impassable on my side. I had way more drops than me, and tossed down glade guard and wild riders while i showed all of my army. I was very pleased when he put down his 19 glade guard unit before I had to deploy characters, though; his characters where my main target! They went in the venom thicket, and I could deploy right across from him. Scout deployments saw me deny as much vanguard moves as possible, while he did the same. Strangely, only one of his waywatcher units was in a good position to shoot characters.

Anyways. He got to choose sides. I had to deploy first. He got to scout first. He got to vanguard first. And naturally, despite my +1, he also won first turn...

Turn 1:

Wood Elves:
He shuffled a bit. Treeman advanced agressively towards my infantry line, wild riders on the flanks started to circle my bolt throwers. Waywatchers took point. His magic was entirely uneventful (me got a -3 BS miasma on my shards), and then his shooting unloaded. 2 dark rider units where wiped to the man, 2 bolt throwers got shot with poison arrows. At least no wounds where caused to my characters.

Dark Elves:
I flew all my 4 heroes straight forward 20" towards his bunker. He had not set up for any countermeasures, I think he was hoping I would deal with his advance on my backlines. But I would be more than happy to trade my darkshards for his characters. Magic saw throne of vines and flesh to stone on the warlock unit, to protect them from all the many arrows. Shooting managed to kill a few waywatchers and a few wild riders, but not enough to save my flank. Ah well!

Turn 2:

Wood Elves:
On my right flank, his wild riders went to work on my remaining bolt throwers. On the left, he decimated a dark rider unit and overran to a nice position in front of my darkshards. He chose to not move his bunker. He could have bought a turn, at least, but opted to try and shoot a character dead. He tried to wither the 5+ ward master, but I dispelled it. He then tried mindrazor on his bunker, but I scrolled it off. Shooting managed 2 wounds on the master, plus killed some more dark riders. Nothing I was sad about.

Dark Elves:
Slam! 3 masters punch straight into the bunker. He tried stand and shoot vs the wounded one, but luckily I managed my saves. The fourth master charged a waywatcher unit that he had misplaced. Magic he dispelled flesh to stone on my general, which meant I got shield of thorns off on him killing a few models. I also recast throne of vines, to heal both wounds on he master. On the left flank, darkshards unloaded, and dropped 4 wild riders.
In close combat, he managed no wounds on me. In return, my lord instantly killed his lvl 4, while the two masters killed 5 or 6 guards. The BSB's pegasus then killed his BSB when he failed his charmed shield save. He was in a forest, so no steadfast. He needed snakeeyes, and ran off the board.

Turn 3 and onwards:

He charged my general with his 8 wild rider unit, hoping to get something done. But with my dawnstone AND 2++ vs flaming, he just tanked them, and I countedcharged next turn, routing the unit. Eventually, his treeman also charged my general, and it took 2 masters countercharging and subsequently 4 combat rounds before I could kill it. In spite of being in a poison forest, I just couldnt put down any 6's. Good thing the rest of the board was pretty much just my remaining master cleaning up small units. In the end, he only had one wild rider model alive.

his big mistake was deploying his bunker too far forward, and also revealing where it would deploy before I placed characters. (He could have deployed it way far off from them if he had tried). In the end, I think I would have won anyway; a static list with not a lot of high S shooting, can do very little to the fliers of doom. 20-0 to the dark elves.



Game 2 vs Dwarves

Oh boy oh boy.
He had a couple of rune smiths and a BSB, they never really came into play so I dont know what they where. The rest of his army:
28 quarellers, FC, great weapons and armor piercing banner
14 quarellers, mus, shields
5xGyrocopters, hereof 3 vanguards
2x Gyrobomers
10 irondrakes
2 bolt throwers
3 cannons

Who said shooting? Holy shiz dude. Also the terrain was terrible. He had so many drops that I was forced to place all my army by the time he had placed his fliers... And there was no way I could hide all characters from all possible cannon angles. I then even went on to not get turn 1...

Turn 1:

Dwarves:
Fliers went forward agressively, staying in the "safe zone" where no characters could see them. Cannons boomed, but rolled a bunch of 1s to wound. If only I had gotten first turn, bah!

Dark Elves:
I shuffle. 2 fliers (lord and BSB) advance on his left flank, where only 1 cannon can hit them. The rest stay in cover from 2 cannons and 2 bolt throwers and 28 quarellers and 10 irondrakes bearing down on them. 4 bolt throwers and 19 darkshard shots in total managed to not even kill a gyro. A shame, they where real clustered and surely one panic test would have failed.

Turn 2:

Dwarves:
Fliers get a bunch of charges on bolt throwers. Others position to flame the darkshards. Cannons kill a bolt thrower, inducing a panic check on my warlock unit, which they promptly fail and run off the board. Bad deployment error on my part, really. Also, the single cannon that could hit my 2 advancing fliers? He shoots at my BSB. I fail the charmed shield save. Then I fail the 4+ ward. Then he lands 5 wounds. Splat! It is why I fear and respect cannons so much. So far direct fire statistics on my fliers: 1 shot, 1 kill. Also his fliers wreck havoc on my infantry and bolt throwers.

Dark Elves:
I decide to at least try and conserve a little points. So I hide the remaining 3 masters as much behind scenery as I can, and tell him to just speedplay his remaining turns.

The remaining turns:
He shuffles cannons around to try and get shots. Like I said, scenery sucks. I could hide from 2 cannons with my general, but the third got a shot in turn 4 I think. And I fail the 3+, and he lays down another 5. Splat. 2 shots, 2 kills. In addition, his bolt thrower shoots my 4+ ward save master, I fail the ward save, and he lands down another 5. Splat. (At least bolt thrower statistics was something like 4 shots, 1 kill...)

All in all. One master managed to survive. frig me this is a bad matchup. I deployed poorly. I should have accepted that cannons would probably hurt, and then just have swarmed him and taken what I could. There was not enough terrain to hide behind, and I just should learn never to deploy stuff such that he can shoot it off and cause panic checks. In my defense, the guy is a danish national team player... But super friendly to boot, we had a great discussion about the game (since we did have nearly 2 hours before game 3, hah) and I am playing him in the national league some time during the summer... Where I will definitely try to do better. Probably I will go all out rush. With shadow magic, too... Need something to pressure the castle. 0-20. Damn!


Game 3 vs Wood Elves

A new guy. A whole other list.
Lvl 4 shadow
Lvl 4 high
BSB
3x10 glade guard with trueflight
10 glade riders
10 wild riders
13 wild riders
15 waywatchers
2 eagles

Yep, you see it right. 2 massive wild rider busses and a huge waywatcher unit. But NOT much in terms of board control. His high mage got unforging, convocation, hand of glory and soul quench, while his shadow got wither, mind razor, miasma and I forget his last spell. I got perfect rolls too, scoring flesh to stone, throne of vines, regrowth and dwellers.
Terrain saw a big impassable in the centre, tons of woods and a big hill on his side. A wood on my side too, and a small hill. I placed dark riders and darkshards meekly around the field, he had few drops so was forced to show his hand early. He deployed almost everything on one side of the board, mening I could deploy fliers dead centre in good cover from his waywatcher unit. His 2 mages is in the 13 wild rider unit, while he BSB goes in the other (dwellers protection). I finally get turn 1!

Turn 1:

Dark Elves:
I press forward. A dark rider unit deploy 3 wide facing his waywatchers, and 2 flier masters join it on either side. BSB and general lands behind this unit, thus getting cover. Warlocks move within 24" of the 13 man WR bus. A dark rider unit moves in front of said bus to block it from charging my centre fliers. The only other eligible charge he could do was with the waywatchers, and I was not concerned about them.
Magic saw me get boxcars. Throne of vines went through, flesh to stone was dispelled. Dwellers on the 13 man bus drew the scroll early.

Wood Elves:
Remember the dark riders blocking the 13 man bus from raping my centre masters? Yeah, they fail frenzy check with reroll, charge the dark riders, and overrun right in front of my general and BSB!
Anyways. Realising he is potentially screwed, his waywatchers also charge the centre DR+2 masters unit. He then tosses mind razor on them, gets the double 6. Rolls cascade, byebye shadow wizard and 5 wild riders. Okay, good tradeoff. In melee, the mind razor does kill one master and cause 2 wounds to the other... I kill a bunch of waywatchers in return, though, and we tie combat.

Turn 2 and onwards:

Dark Elves:
Lord and BSB charge the wild riders. I magic the wounded master to full health via attribute. Shooting didnt do much, killed an eagle I believe (again, it takes the focused firepower of 3 RBTs and 19 darkshards for a turn, to kill one eagle.) In close combat, his mind razor guys did not kill the master, and I wipe the unit in return. My general slaugthers his high mage, while the BSB and combined pegasus attacks means snakeeyes to stick. He doesnt get it, and they run off the board.

From here on out, the game pretty much consisted of me regrowing any casualties he could inflict, while I hunted down his army. By turn 5 the table belonged to the dark elves.


A game that I should probably win, as my forward claim to the centre meant that I was guaranteed to kill the waywatchers in turn 2, or maybe turn 3 at the latest. But him failing that frenzy check... Wow, what a snowball effect. It was not so entertaining, but the other guy was a good spot about it. When I consistently rolled insanely high magic rolls, he just said "yeah, this is pretty telling for this game". Very onesided, but he took it well. It just happens sometimes I guess, but I played it perfectly too. 20-0.



At the end of the day, DE just has a field day vs WE. At least this flier list. There's very little to pressure the characters at all. The dwarf list was a nightmare, though...
My opponent from game 2 almost cleared the table in game 3 as well. Vs one of the overall rankings competitors, so I was quite pleased there. The other "top 3" game also ended in TK tabling a chaos dwarf, which meant I got 3rd place overall. The dwarf player was first with 57 BP, Tk 2nd. Me 3rd, tied for BP with another wood elf but winning in VP since I tabled two opponents and he got 3 slim wins. (It was a sub 150 VP difference, hehe. In his third game, if he had shot 1 more troll off a chaos player, would've been him on third :P )

Top 3! Best tourney ranking so far. But man, them cannons. Do not like!

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Name: Ladry (female)
Class: Mage (Pyromancer)
Equipment: Staff, longsword, dagger, 20 gold, insignia ring.
Skills: Power of Aqshy (2), defensive figthing
WS4, S2, T3, D4, I6.


Mon Jun 30, 2014 8:22 am
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Congratulations on the 3rd place and well played.
Good to know I am not alone in struggling against Dwarven gunlines with a quad pegasus list. The main problem I find is the points needed to run it in characters leaves little chaff cover and sacrifical units to block LOS and get into the backline to clear the cannons out.

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Mon Jun 30, 2014 12:49 pm
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Worse yet. ETC rules is simple line of sight... So you cant block cannon line of sight with a unit. Only thing that works is behind a hill OR an impassible. Everything else will not block the sight. Including his own units. He deployed his quarellers in front of 2 of the cannons... Even if I had had enough chaff to get past his billion shots per turn, theres nothing I could have done. In fact, all of my non hero units is just even more free points. The gyros are impossible to catch, and they brutalise infantry and dark riders alike. I am at a loss as to how to approach it.

Since I play him again some time during the summer, I have briefly considered a max size spearman unit to contain a shadow + sac dagger wizard (just to keep her safe...), and then just max out on pegasus / steed heroes, a big dark rider unit to deliver them, and chariots, hydras, everything. All out target saturation monster mash... I just dont even know if they will make it across the field, since HE gets to decide where everything deploys.

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Name: Ladry (female)
Class: Mage (Pyromancer)
Equipment: Staff, longsword, dagger, 20 gold, insignia ring.
Skills: Power of Aqshy (2), defensive figthing
WS4, S2, T3, D4, I6.


Mon Jun 30, 2014 5:48 pm
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Congratulations on the Top 3 result and thanks for the write ups.

I enjoyed your most recent game against the Woodies in particular :) One thing I've noticed is that your WE opponents all appear to be duplicating enchanted arrows choices -- is there an official ETC or otherwise ruling on this?

I feel your pain on the Dwarven gunline issue. How do these Dwarf lists tend to do overall in the tournament results? and what opponents do they struggle with?

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Mon Jun 30, 2014 6:01 pm
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T.D. wrote:
Congratulations on the Top 3 result and thanks for the write ups.

I enjoyed your most recent game against the Woodies in particular :) One thing I've noticed is that your WE opponents all appear to be duplicating enchanted arrows choices -- is there an official ETC or otherwise ruling on this?

I feel your pain on the Dwarven gunline issue. How do these Dwarf lists tend to do overall in the tournament results? and what opponents do they struggle with?


WE opponents decide on a favourite arrow type depending on play style I think. First guy wanted to kill war machines. Second guy wanted to be able to hit anything, anywhere. Theres no ruling on it. ETC only has a max amount of models with trueflight/hagbane, but thats it.

As to the dwarf guy... I dont think he did super well with the list last tournament but this one he won. Two tablings and then a meek 17-3 win in his final game. Because he didnt kill anything the first two turns.
He says himself that the 4x pegasus is the second most difficult list to handle! I think it is because its across the table so fast. You either win big or lose big against it. The by far worst matchup for it is daemons flying circus, since they've wards all over and reign of chaos can do nasty things to a dwarf list like that. And then skaven can beat him - IF the storm banner works more than one turn, otherwise he wins he says.
But those are, in his opinion, the only actual bad matchups. Vs defensive lists, he wins because dwarf shooting is vastly superior. Vs offensive lists, he wins rather often simply due to volume of firepower. It is quite ridiculous... Its that list, more or less, that he will be taking to the ETC tournament. Brutal brutal.

You got any idea for a 100% tooled list that I am allowed to make for our NWL game? I'd like to have a go at him :P

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Name: Ladry (female)
Class: Mage (Pyromancer)
Equipment: Staff, longsword, dagger, 20 gold, insignia ring.
Skills: Power of Aqshy (2), defensive figthing
WS4, S2, T3, D4, I6.


Mon Jun 30, 2014 6:19 pm
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Thraundil wrote:
Game 2 vs Dwarves

Oh boy oh boy.
He had a couple of rune smiths and a BSB, they never really came into play so I dont know what they where. The rest of his army:
28 quarellers, FC, great weapons and armor piercing banner
14 quarellers, mus, shields
5xGyrocopters, hereof 3 vanguards
2x Gyrobomers
10 irondrakes
2 bolt throwers
3 cannons


That is an awful lot of stuff for 2400 points. You sure you have the numbers right?


Mon Jun 30, 2014 6:33 pm
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Thraundil wrote:
You got any idea for a 100% tooled list that I am allowed to make for our NWL game? I'd like to have a go at him :P


You are in a better place to come up with ideas, that's why I'm asking :P

Perhaps our active tournament-ers could chip in with some ideas in facing Dwarf lists like this?

Interesting feedback from the Dwarf player. I guess the core of the problem is all-comers; how do we create a good all-comers list that can win enough points against bad match ups (like gunlines) to top the tables?

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Mon Jun 30, 2014 6:37 pm
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T.D. wrote:
Thraundil wrote:
You got any idea for a 100% tooled list that I am allowed to make for our NWL game? I'd like to have a go at him :P


You are in a better place to come up with ideas, that's why I'm asking :P

Perhaps our active tournament-ers could chip in with some ideas in facing Dwarf lists like this?

Interesting feedback from the Dwarf player. I guess the core of the problem is all-comers; how do we create a good all-comers list that can win enough points against bad match ups (like gunlines) to top the tables?



Sadly the Dwarf Airforce list in the nemesis to any of our army configurations (even the brolock buses). A definite rock to our scissors. Conversely that Dwarf list will not likely stand up to many Warrior of Chaos armies or your typical Nurgle Demons list or Ogre Kingdom's list. With some thought we could tailor a list to have a chance but I would wager that it would not look anything like an 'all comers' list.


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Gidean wrote:
Sadly the Dwarf Airforce list in the nemesis to any of our army configurations (even the brolock buses). A definite rock to our scissors. Conversely that Dwarf list will not likely stand up to many Warrior of Chaos armies or your typical Nurgle Demons list or Ogre Kingdom's list. With some thought we could tailor a list to have a chance but I would wager that it would not look anything like an 'all comers' list.


:cry:

Well for fun we could brainstorm two lists:

- One all comers list optimised to do as well as possible in tournaments
-> plus some mitigation strategies when faced with bad match-ups

- One tailored anti-Flight of the Gyros list :twisted:

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Mon Jun 30, 2014 6:58 pm
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Probably the best, but also potentially the riskiest, would be to hide all of your characters behind the bro with the charmed shield and pray that he doesn't fail it. This assumes though that you can get in a position to charge and only be shot at by 1 cannon.
Light is good vs cannon lines. Net disables one, phas defends against them, and you can throw magic missiles at them too! Probably the biggest factor was losing your magic turn 2. If you don't, you can dwellers a cannon for the autokill or go for a unit of quarellers.

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Mon Jun 30, 2014 7:20 pm
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Joined: Wed Jan 09, 2013 1:46 pm
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Location: The Depths of Despair
Gidean wrote:
Thraundil wrote:
Game 2 vs Dwarves

Oh boy oh boy.
He had a couple of rune smiths and a BSB, they never really came into play so I dont know what they where. The rest of his army:
28 quarellers, FC, great weapons and armor piercing banner
14 quarellers, mus, shields
5xGyrocopters, hereof 3 vanguards
2x Gyrobomers
10 irondrakes
2 bolt throwers
3 cannons


That is an awful lot of stuff for 2400 points. You sure you have the numbers right?


28 quarellers, GW, shields, FC. (They cant have armor piercing banner, must be a rune or the BSB?. Not sure about if they had shields)
= 450 pts
14 quarellers, champ, shields (mus?)
= 202 pts
2 bolt throwers
= 110 pts total
3 cannons with rune of reroll misfires
= 435 pts total
3 vanguard gyros
= 300 pts
2 nonvanguard gyros
= 160 pts
2 gyrobombers
= 250 pts
10 Irondrakes +/- command
= 150 pts

These selections total 2057 points. Plus/minus for command groups and shields and shiz.
I know he had at least one runesmith and one Thane BSB. Dont know their loadsouts or stuff, but theres 400 points to distribute amongst 3 characters.

Hell yeah its an awful lot of stuff! Sadly, thats what they can get.


@Allcomers that can deal with gunlines... Well the 4 pegasus can theoretically do it. All out rush. Cannons just should NOT oneshot heroes like this :s at most he gets to kill 2 heroes, assuming average rolls and 2 turns before I can charge them. But its everything BUT the cannons I cant handle. The fliers roast literally everything they get close to. You know what the average kill of one gyrocopter is over a darkshard unit? Yeah, 7. One gyro that lands one flame template earns itself in, in that turn alone. Mother of Malekith those things are disgusting. Its not the cannons that are the problem. Its the fact that even if I get the cannons with the fliers... Well then I have 2 flying heroes left in my army. The rest is gone. What can I kill with 2 flying heroes? Maybe, MAYBE I also have my wizard. If im lucky. I can never move within 30" of the big quareller unit with my wizards unit, or they vanish. And a gyro will kill 2 warlocks per turn, a piece. Or more, if shes on foot in a foot unit.


@A tailored list.
I've pondered something of this sort...
Lord on steed with giant blade, OTS and dawnstone
A supreme on steed, with shadow magic or possibly death since ill just skip warlocks alltogether vs this kind of dwarf list... she gets power scroll, opal amulet and ironcurse icon
Maybe BSB on steed, with talisman and charmed shield (shield may go onto lord as I dont actually need OTS...)
Two pegasus heroes.
21 dark riders FC crossbows shields (yeah, 21. To deliver the characters - he cant possibly shoot them all!)
11 darkshards with mus and shields (filling out core)
4 RBT to make him waste cannon shots, or I shoot his gyros.
Hydra with breath template
K-beast

The two monsters are for target saturation. He wanna toss a shot at them? Fine, a master may then survive.





@ the comments about weak matchups: the guy he played in game 3 was an ogre kingdoms guy. The OK bus spent the majority of the game chasing gyros whilst being shot apart. Nurgle daemons, not sure. They dont cross the board fast enough. The all-flying daemons list is more lethal. Warriors of chaos may also just get a ton of redirections their way while cannons rain down. I dont know.



@ Pablo: in simple line of sight, I cant do this... Or, I could. From one cannon. All others can just shoot "past" the charmed shield dude... And its hella risky too. Light could be OK, but pha's can be destructed with their silly runes, and then I've got nothing. To cast on cannons, I need to get within range. And 28 quarellers, I say again...

_________________
Name: Ladry (female)
Class: Mage (Pyromancer)
Equipment: Staff, longsword, dagger, 20 gold, insignia ring.
Skills: Power of Aqshy (2), defensive figthing
WS4, S2, T3, D4, I6.


Mon Jun 30, 2014 7:47 pm
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Malekith's Best Friend
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Thraundil wrote:
3 cannons with rune of reroll misfires
= 435 pts total



Here's the problem I have. I too played with one of these cannons just this last Saturday. You are right. They are 145 points with the rune of forging. BUT...all three can't have the same load out. That means cannon #2 had to have forging plus one other. Cannon #3 had to have forging plus two other runes. Can't duplicate rune combos in a dwarf army. I took a 2500 point list with 4 gyros (2 were vanguards) and two bombers. I took 25 Longbeards with great weapons and two units of 15 Thunderers (one had FC and the other did not have a champ). I did have 4 characters. But only one cannon and two min. size units of rangers. It just seemed to me he had a heck of a lot more for an army that is 100 points smaller than mine. I suppose if his characters were more or less just equipped with mundane stuff it would work..... :?


Mon Jun 30, 2014 8:29 pm
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Malekith's Best Friend
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Well I found his actual list on the danish ETC forum, and since I played against it I think I can safely post the characters loadout :P

Runesmith, General, Shield, Rune of Spellbreaking X 2, Rune of the Furnace, 113
Thane, , Bsb, Master Rune of Grungni 150
Runesmith, , Rune of Spellbreaking X 2, shield 108

Thats it. If he gets into combat he is a goner anyway, so he doesnt need or want the ward saves over the brutal shooting.
Cannons:
Cannon, Rune of Forging 145
Cannon, Rune of Forging, Rune of Burning 150
Cannon, Rune of Forging, Stalwart Rune 160

So yeah. But the points are, in fact, there... I also think it was a crazy big army on the board, but its legit enough.

_________________
Name: Ladry (female)
Class: Mage (Pyromancer)
Equipment: Staff, longsword, dagger, 20 gold, insignia ring.
Skills: Power of Aqshy (2), defensive figthing
WS4, S2, T3, D4, I6.


Tue Jul 01, 2014 5:58 am
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Malekith's Best Friend
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Joined: Sat Sep 22, 2012 4:47 am
Posts: 1043
Thraundil wrote:
Well I found his actual list on the danish ETC forum, and since I played against it I think I can safely post the characters loadout :P

Runesmith, General, Shield, Rune of Spellbreaking X 2, Rune of the Furnace, 113
Thane, , Bsb, Master Rune of Grungni 150
Runesmith, , Rune of Spellbreaking X 2, shield 108

Thats it. If he gets into combat he is a goner anyway, so he doesnt need or want the ward saves over the brutal shooting.
Cannons:
Cannon, Rune of Forging 145
Cannon, Rune of Forging, Rune of Burning 150
Cannon, Rune of Forging, Stalwart Rune 160

So yeah. But the points are, in fact, there... I also think it was a crazy big army on the board, but its legit enough.


Thanks for breaking that down for me. Yes, his characters were nearly butt naked. Like me he took two spell breakers. In my game I destroyed one spell but not the other. Average. :roll: I took two units of rangers because my thinking was that taking vanguarding gyros is a waste if your opponent gets the drop on you for vanguarding and ruins your potential to advance. Very few armies sport scouts. I played a Bretonnian who had peg knights and he would have done exactly what I feared but for my scouts being in position to keep him 12 inches away. This is another reason why we Dark Elves should always try to include at least one unit of shades.


Tue Jul 01, 2014 7:39 pm
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Malekith's Best Friend
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Location: The Depths of Despair
He takes the vanguard due to the ETC official tables... Theres a lot more terrain on those.

I maybe should have blocket the big fliers with my shades. I just didnt want to give them away completely for free.

_________________
Name: Ladry (female)
Class: Mage (Pyromancer)
Equipment: Staff, longsword, dagger, 20 gold, insignia ring.
Skills: Power of Aqshy (2), defensive figthing
WS4, S2, T3, D4, I6.


Tue Jul 01, 2014 8:50 pm
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Malekith's Best Friend
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Joined: Wed Jan 09, 2013 1:46 pm
Posts: 1177
Location: The Depths of Despair
Time for another short (well, in my sense of the word) battle report! This is a game from the danish national league, pitted against one of the danish ETC players! Naturally, I was very excited and a little intimidated walking into this game. He was initially supposed to play empire, but since the ETC team has had some mixups with a teammate ragequitting after not being allowed to play woodies, he will likely play vampire counts with the following approximate list:

Lvl 4 vampire lore - general.
Lvl 4 lore of death
Lvl 1 vampire, vampire lore, BSB
2x tomb banshee
24 zombies
40 zombies
44 ghouls
10 crypt horrors
6 vargheists
Mortis Engine

So tripple scream and lots of magic threat. Since I was allowed to design, I tweaked my list a small bit, also deciding to give the medusa a go.

Dreadlord on pegasus, the black amulet, other tricksters shard and sword of might (source of magic attacks)
Lvl 4 death, ring of hotek, scroll
Master on pegasus, BSB, charmed shield, talisman of protection
Master on pegasus, armor of destiny
Master on pegasus, cloak of twilight (this usually goes on the lord, but it wont protect from banshee screams!)
20 darkshards, flaming
10 witch elves
2x5 dark riders
4 RBT
2x5 warlocks
Medusa


Terrain featured a hill in both deployment zones, and a fence on the left side around mid board. The rest of the terrain was inconsequential as he castled on my left side. Ghouls held the flank, crypt horrors the centre of his formation. Big zombie unit was angled to protect his right flank, along with the vargheists. Small zombie unit goes in the back with the mortis engine and all characters. For spells he gets spirit leech, caress, doom and darkness and soulblight on the death wizard, and signature, vanhels, raise and that magic missile thing on the vampire wizard. Lvl 1 just takes signature.

My deployment saw my darkshards on the hilltop with great view of his horrors. Witch elves to the right of the hill with warlocks and medusa. All fliers start behind the hill out of range of death snipes. I get spirit leech, doom and darkness, fate and purple sun. Not sure why I kept D&D instead of whatever other spell I rolled for signature swap... Oh well.

He won first turn.

Turn 1:

Vampire Counts
He shuffled. Moved forward a very tiny bit. Magic saw a bolt thrower die, and a zombie unit raised directly in front of my left flank, facing a bolt thrower. In addition, a vanguarded dark rider unit was screamed off the board by his banshees who relocated to the ghoul unit. I should not have been so agressive with them, no reason to!

Dark Elves
One master roadblocks the raised zombie unit. Other fliers fly to spot his ghoul unit, keeping their safe distance. Medusa also shifts to the left flank. Warlocks advance on his right flank, one unit trying to bait a charge from his vargheists, the other unit ready to flank. Magic gets soulblight on the crypt horrors, and all my shooters unload on it (Mortis was out of range of my darkshards). Darkshards manage... a single wound. 3 RBT volleys manage another couple. Not so impressive with my darkshard performance so far!

Turn 2:

Vampire Counts
The vargheists take the bait. Rest of his army shuffles, with the zombie unit moving forward to prevent my other warlock units from getting the flank. Magic sees him attempt snipes on my characters, and I dispel them. Then he tries vanhels on the vargheists, and I realise if I want to take control of his right flank I must scroll it. I do so. His banshees abandon the ghoul unit to rejoin the main bunker. Warlocks murder 2 vargheists, but I suffer 4 casualties in return. Still, I won combat and another vargheist crumbles and their frenzy is gone.

Dark Elves
Since I could not assist, the unengaged warlocks and my remaining dark rider unit just gets into a good position to circle his right flank. On the left, a master + medusa charge the raised zombie unit threatening my bolt throwers, while the other 3 fliers launch headlong into the ghoul unit. Sadly, since I must maximise models, I dont have an overrun from the zombie battle. All chargers make it in. Magic attempts some soulblight action and an attempted snipe on a banshee, but I am unsuccessful. Darkshards manage to wound the mortis engine, and RBTs finish it off. In melee, my sole remaining warlock does manage to wound the two remaining vargheists, but his return attacks cost him his life. Solo master + medusa of course murder the zombies. In the big combat, his unit champion challenge. I take with the cloak of twilight master for the overkills, he rolls poorly though and only inflicts 3 wounds. Other two characters deal so much combined damage that I win combat by a massive 10, meaning over half his unit is gone to the combined damage and crumble. He was surprised at the damage levels.

Turn 3:

Vampire Counts
Shuffling. His crypt horrors now advance toward my backline. 2 remaining Vargheists get in a position to attempt a flank should I overextend my warlocks. I just move them into a good position, while his big zombie block reforms. In magic, he heals the ghouls, and I foolishly throw dispel dice after it. He then gets doom and darkness on my general, and two screams later he is dead. Bugger! The two masters remaining in the ghoul melee batters them down though, with crumbles they are down to just under 20 models. He reforms to get more ranks.

Dark Elves
At this point, my darkshards have two options. Shoot the crypt horrors and hope to deal some damage, or charge them along with witches and hope for a good combat result with some crumbles. I take the chance and charge in. On the other side, medusa repositions and the unengaged master rams into the ghoul unit. Warlocks circle around to flank the backlines. I try soulblight on the crypt horrors, but he throws everything at the dispel. I then try a snipe on a banshee, but lay down a 1 for the LD roll... I try purple sun through the horrors, but he scrolls it. RBTs shoot one vargheist down. My 3 masters decimate the ghoul unit to the man, and one master who just charged, overruns into his bunker. Darkshards and witch elves then elect to a) not land a single poison hit and b) roll astonishingly poor, only getting a few dead models. He then rolls equally poorly, only killing one witch elf and a few darkshards (daym, parry saves!). I crumble a model thanks to the downhill charge bonus.

Turn 4:

Vampire Counts
His zombie unit is misplaced and he cant charge with it, so he reforms it. His lone remaining vargheist legs it to conserve points. He does some magic, healing up all the crypt horrors I just killed... Well, nuts. He also gets doom and darkness though. Two banshee screams thankfully rolls low, only giving a single wound to a master. He then challenges with a banshee, meaning that whilst i have a charge, he had 2 flags and 3 ranks. And a -1 LD aura from the BSB and -3 from doom. I flee, but he does not catch me, rather overrunning into my BSB. Crypt horrors lay down the hurt, but I retain just enough darkshard models to be steadfast. The witches run for it though.

Dark Elves
My non fleeing master charges the bunker to assist the BSB, and the medusa rams into their flank. Warlocks into their rear, and all make it. Then comes the big roll... Can I rally the master, or will he flee off the board? I lay down the 5, perfect. RBTs have no really good targets, so shooting doesnt do much from this point on. I try soulblight on the crypt horrors again, but it is dispelled. The darkshards finally break from combat and he restrains, electing to reform to try and save his bunker. He calls a challenge with a banshee again, and I take with the BSB to protect him. Medusa aura kills 3 zombies, and she puts a wound onto his BSB while taking none back. Master and warlocks also murder zombines to the point where he crumbles quite a lot.

Turn 5:

Vampire Counts
His crypt horrors charge my medusa in the rear (their overrun will hit the warlocks in the flank, not getting into base contact with a master thankfully). Big zombie unit chase my fleeing darkshards. His lvl 1 IF's a signature, taking a wound for his trouble along with a wound on one of the lvl 4's. He heals some zombies and uses the attribute to heal the BSBs wound back up. We did not know whether or not you could "push back" a rear charge to make room for all the raised zombies, and so we rolled a d6. 4+ his benefit. He got it. It later turns out you can NOT displace enemy models to make room for raised zombies! Ah well. I dispel his lvl 4's attempt to do the same, and dispel doom and darkness. Banshee screams put 2 wounds on my cloak of twilight master. In melee, my medusa puts a wound on the BSB, but dies to the crypt horrors (thereby temporarily removing them from combat, thus denying him a rear bonus!). Warlocks and masters but a combined massive hurt on. End of the day, since he lost his rear bonus, I win by so much that his characters start to crumble. BSB dies, and every other character takes a wound.

Dark Elves
My recently-rallied master slams into the crypt horror flank, with dark riders getting into the other flank. Darkshard bunker fails to rally (they are sub 25%). In melee I murder both his lvl 4's and get a few wounds into the crypt horrors as well. Banshees crumble, crypt horrors crumble twice, I reform everything to face them. We agree that I would get them, and rolled once more for my darkshard bunker. They would not have rallied. We call the game, though, as my masters are all alive (although two of them sit on one wound left), and I succesfully crumbled his bunker to dust.



At the end of the game, I think I can take a few things of note away from this.
1. Always dispel doom and darkness if within scream range. Yuck!
2. Masters grind like mother friggin champions. Sick, yo!
3. It would have paid off to keep the dark riders back, and attach some characters to them. Banshee screams distribute as shooting, so I could protect characters for at least a round.
4. Dont try to melee crypt horrors... Man.
5. Get into melee with at least 2 masters, as fast as possible, and get them crumbling. Aside from crypt horrors and banshees he actually has nothing to threaten me in close quarters! I was lucky my centre held on, delaying his assist charge by a turn. But there was 2 potential rounds of combat more (and he got the benefit of doubt to raise more zombines) - once I got my characters in and he started crumbling, he was under a lot of pressure. But those banshees. Another time, I will maybe spend a few rounds sitting back and sniping them with death snipes before moving in.

End result was 16-4 as he did get my lvl 4 and my general. He underestimated the power of my characters, and also where his first two rounds of screaming caused massive wounds, his latter rounds where not as effective. End of the day a fun game, where I really utilised the strength of my army: the characters in close combat. Death, once again, did nothing good for me. But I'll give it another chance tonight where I square off vs a lizardmen!

_________________
Name: Ladry (female)
Class: Mage (Pyromancer)
Equipment: Staff, longsword, dagger, 20 gold, insignia ring.
Skills: Power of Aqshy (2), defensive figthing
WS4, S2, T3, D4, I6.


Tue Jul 08, 2014 9:38 am
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