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Army Blog - The Dark Reapers - Dragon Lord Musings 
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Noble
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Joined: Tue May 12, 2009 8:56 am
Posts: 423
Location: Copenhagen, Denmark
Death is of course the best bet.

Dark is a strong contender, but only if you play your darkshard bunker(s) aggressively.
If you hang back with them. Shadow, Life, Metal etc are much better choices.

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Interesting threads from the past:
BG Executioners Axe List:
Facing Ogres:
Facing WoC:
Effective use of Magic
Tips Using Harpies:


Mon Jun 16, 2014 1:58 pm
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Shade

Joined: Sun Dec 22, 2013 10:01 pm
Posts: 116
Location: Serving Mathlann!
Big shoutout to heavens too to buff your shooting. I really like dark on my level 4. It puts a lot of pressure on your opponent with all the damaging spells and in the current meta, it is really good vs elves.

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Mon Jun 16, 2014 6:14 pm
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Highborn
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Pablo wrote:
Big shoutout to heavens too to buff your shooting. I really like dark on my level 4. It puts a lot of pressure on your opponent with all the damaging spells and in the current meta, it is really good vs elves.


I have actually thought about Heavens, but I am a bit on the fence. Harmonic Convergence would have been absolutely fantastic were it not for the fact that I seldom have my shooting units within 12" of each other. The Reapers are often far back, while my Shades and DR are often really far up. The unboosted version is still fairly good on the Darkshards though. The signature is always good and helps immensely against cannons and BS-shooting, while Curse of the Midnight Wind is really good against poison shooting. Comet can also be really good against gunlines.

The problem with the lore is in my opinion that all the magic missiles are rather unimpressive and that the lore has nothing to reduce toughness with to improve my shooting. With the current setup, this means that I only have a single casting of Soulblight to debuff my opponent's units before my own shooting phase. I don't find that to be all that good when I have so many shots.

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Tue Jun 17, 2014 1:04 pm
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Shade

Joined: Sun Dec 22, 2013 10:01 pm
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Location: Serving Mathlann!
The magic missiles are good vs. Things that your shooting aren't amazing against a la camo skinks, or strong stuff like steam tanks. I don't rate chain lightning, but the urannons is a strong relatively cheap spell that can put pain on most units. Strength 6 is no joke.
Comet is also good at making your opponent move away from one point on the battlefield and cracking gunlines. Harmonic is also amazing on your peg's to give the rerollable 1+'s. It's bettter if she is in a bunkerof darkshards but ah well.

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Wed Jun 18, 2014 7:12 am
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Highborn
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I played another game against Rusty's Ogres on Wednesday and this time I decided to try the Lore of Heavens. My initial thought was that this was a good matchup for me. He can try to kill my Pegs with cannons, but it is unreliable and I should be able to kill a lot of his Ogres at range with my many crossbows, as well as focusing down single units with my massive manouvreability.

My List

Dreadlord, General, Light Armour, Sea Dragon Cloak, Dark Steed, Enchanted Shield, Giant Blade, Dawnstone - 258pts
Supreme Sorceress, lvl4 Death, Dispel Scroll, Ring of Hotek - 295pts
Master, Dark Pegasus, Heavy Armour, Lance, Sea Dragon Cloak, Shield Cloak of Twilight - 188pts
Master, Dark Pegasus, Heavy Armour, Sea Dragon Cloak, Lance, Armour of Destiny - 184pts
Master, Dark Pegasus, Heavy Armour, Sea Dragon Cloak, Charmed Shield, Lance, Talisman of Preservation, BSB - 211pts
Characters = 1136pts

25 Darkshards, Guardmaster, Musician, Standard Bearer, Banner of Eternal Flame - 340pts
9 Dark Riders, Shields, Repeater Crossbows - 180pts
5 Dark Riders - 80pts
Core = 600pts

Reaper Bolt Thrower - 70pts
Reaper Bolt Thrower - 70pts
Reaper Bolt Thrower - 70pts
Reaper Bolt Thrower - 70pts
5 Harpies - 75pts
5 Shades - 80pts
Special = 435pts

9 Doomfire Warlocks - 225pts
Rare = 225pts

Army Total = 2396pts

His List

Heroes (575pts)
Bruiser
General
Great Weapon, Heavy Armour
Ironcurse Icon,Talisman of Preservation

Bruiser
Battle Standard Bearer, Great Weapon
Armour of Destiny

Firebelly
Great Weapon, Wizard Level 2
Dispel Scroll, Ruby Ring of Ruin

Core (610pts)
3*10 Gnoblars

9 Ironguts
Full command
Standard of Discipline

3 Ogres
Bellower
Additional Hand Weapon

Special (871pts)
8 Leadbelchers
Bellower, Champion

7 Maneaters
Bellower, Poisoned Attacks , Stubborn
Maneaters (62pts)
A Brace of Ogre Pistols, Light Armour

3*1 Sabretusk

Rare (340pts)
2*Ironblaster

Deployment

We decided to use ETC table number 1 this time. My spell selection was extremely good and I got Iceshard Blizzard, Harmonic Convergence, Curse of the Midnight Wind and Comet of Cassanadora. He got Fireball and Burning Head. I was not completely happy with deployment as I had to decide if I wanted to hide RBTs from his shooting unit or place them so that I actually could shoot with them. The two on the hill were not in a good place as they could easily be shot down, but I could live with it. I deployed my Shades to try and shoot at his chaff to get some easy points. I vanguarded my Warlocks backwards so that they could not get shot at if he got turn 1. I was fairly happy with this as he actually got first turn.

Image

Turn 1

He did not move a whole lot, but his Maneaters moved forward, as did his Leadbelchers. I liked this, as he was now in a very dangerous spot. I will come back to this on my turn.

His magic phase is 8v6. He uses the Ruby Ring of Ruin on the Shades, which I dispel. I also scroll his attempt at fireball on the shades, the reason here being that they are the prime target for his magic.

His one Ironblaster kills my leftmost Dark Riders, while the other bounces off the Twilight Cloak. His Maneaters shoot off one of my Reapers, while the Leadbelchers fail to do anything.

Image

I realise that he has left his left flank wide open. His Ironguts cannot do much during the next few round and I should have no trouble beating his other two units in combat. I aggressively move my Dark Riders and Warlocks as well as my two peg heroes up. The Dark Riders were there to give the Warlocks cover and to flee if they got charged. My last Peg Rider went up to threaten the Ogres on his right flank. This was a mistake, I should have moved him towards the other flank instead.

Magic is a massive 11v6 and I have a lvl4, while he only has a lvl2. I get Iceshard Blizzard off on the Leadbelchers with 2d6 and Curse of the Midnight Wind off on the Maneaters with 3d6. I am left with my last six dice against his six. He scrolls Soulblight on the Maneaters on 3d6. For my last spell, I cast Comet, the perfect spell against gunlines. I roll 2 6s and the miscast is a 4...Fortunately I live, but 6 Darkshards dies and the SS takes a wound. A fantastic magic phase! I got three spells off AND drew the scroll.

My shooting does next to nothing. I kill one sabretusk and put a wound on another, the rest of the shots fail to hit.

Image

Turn 2

He charges the Leadbelchers into the Dark Riders and I flee through the Warlocks, he does not redirect. The Maneaters then charge the Warlocks and roll a 10 for their charge distance. Irritating, but considering they still have Curse of the Midnight Wind on them, I am going to be ok. The rest of his army shuffles around, trying to get out of comet range.

Magic is 10v6 and he manages to kill four of my Harpies and take the Charmed Shield off my BSB. The Comet does not come down.

He shoots off the last harpy with a cannon. This may sound weird, but I think it was the right call. He has to get rid of my redirectors if he is to have any chance in this game. His left flank is going to break and he needs to get his Gutstar in position sooner rather than later. The other cannon fails to get through my BSBs ward save.

In combat, my lord kills his champion and the Warlocks do 7 wounds to the Maneaters as well. He, however, kills 5 of my Warlocks which is a few too much in my opinion. He sticks due to stubborn.

My Pegs charge into his Maneaters, wanting to finish him off as soon as possible. My Dark Riders move up to redirect the Gutstar.

Magic is 5v3 and I get Curse of the Midnight Wind off on the Maneaters again. In hindsight, this was pretty silly. I should have prioritised spells on other units instead. The comet still doesn't come down.

My shooting is pretty tame, but I think I kill a leadbelcher.

My characters and Warlocks obliterate his Maneaters. The Twilight Peg overruns 1" away from the Leadbelchers.

Image

Turn 3

His gutstar charges the DR screen and I flee, he then makes a major mistake and redirects into the Warlocks. I am super happy with this as there are only 4 Warlocks left and my Dreadlord would not get a look out sir against his cannons. They run behind the hill and out of sight. His Gutstar stumbles forward. The Leadbelchers charge the Twilight Peg.

Magic is 7v4, but he only kills one DR with his spells. The BSB survives another cannonball. I think he fails to wound this time.

The twilight Peg kills one Leadbelcher, but he sticks on steadfast.

In my turn, I rally my Fast Cav and join the Lord to the DR, while the Warlocks move up to threaten the Leadbelchers and the Ironblaster.

Magic is 3v2 and I cast Iceshard Blizzard on one of his Ironblasters, but more importantly, the Comet comes down with s8! It kills a few Ironguts and does this to the Leadbelchers.

Image

Image

My shooting this turn mostly goes into the Gutstar as he is no longer in heavy cover and I manage to kill a few. His chaff is almost depleted now.

Image

Turn 4

He moves the Ironguts back behind cover and turns the Ironblasters around to shoot at one of my Pegs. One of them kills him in the shooting phase.

In his magic phase, he gets 10v5 dice and he kills one of the Reapers with a 3d6 fireball.

In my turn both surviving Pegs charge an Ironblaster that they easily dispatch.

In magic I get 5v3 and roll 3 6s with my Warlocks, attempting to cast Doombolt on the Gutstar. I kill one Irongut and lose three Warlocks.

I continue to shoot at his chaff and deplete it some more.

Image

Turn 5+6

He turns around and kills my Warlocks with fire magic.

I charge all the characters into the Gutstar and beat them over the ensuing three rounds of combat. Heaven really helped here as both Iceshard Blizzard and Curse of the Midnight Wind were extremely good.

My shooting kills the rest of his chaff and I table him! :D

Evaluation

I think I played OK and got some good luck in the right places. I definately should not have moved one of my Pegs all the way over to the left, but rather kept it with the others. Anyway, I am fairly happy with my game as Rusty is a really good player and I love it every time I get to beat him! :D

Thoughts?

I will probably post about the Lore of Heavens and pros and cons regarding it sometime tomorrow or later tonight.

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Last edited by Dark reaper on Fri Jun 20, 2014 7:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.



Fri Jun 20, 2014 5:10 pm
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Miscast into the Warp
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Congratulations on the win :)
Do you have the lists, as it helps to understand the report.
S8 Comet was nice.

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Fri Jun 20, 2014 5:50 pm
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Highborn
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I have updated the BR with our army lists. :)

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Fri Jun 20, 2014 7:31 pm
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Slave (off the Altar)

Joined: Fri Apr 04, 2014 7:36 pm
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My army is painted. I win.

Seriously though, well played :D.

Regarding the batrep itself first. My maneaters have a champion with only one pistol, and ironcurse icon is no more. When taking photos I think you're better off staying on the long table edges and taking a photo of only half the table. Playing my army, we only use half the table and don't really need a pic of the one unit running around on the other half.


The matchup is a brutally hard one for ogres. Heavens is well suited to breaking up my formation. This army lives and dies on staying in formation. All the pegs are near impossible to kill With the tools I have available. I'm also unable to catch them. The remainig dark elf army is elusive to say the least. Combined I will have major problems keeping my units alive and doing damage to anything significant.


On to the game itself. I started of With the first turn and chose to move slightly forward to kill his two closest RBTs With shooting. My plan from there on up was to stay back and shoot all his chaff, then get his pegs into combat With the gutstar and kill them. To do this I had to rely on leadbelchers and maneaters staying and dying. With steadfast and Ld9RR that should hopefully be doable. I fully expected his pegs to move full speed towards my shooting units.

Dark Reaper's turn one Magic phase changed the plan. I had six dispel dice save for his comet which he cast last on four dice and got IF. Sod that.
My mantra should probably be: "If in doubt, charge!". Anyhow, that I did and the rest is messy. I had a hope that I could kill his Warlocks and then hold vs the charging pegs, then Counter charge With gutstar. Unfortunately I underestimated his Dark Riders. Two turns in a row they fled the charged, rallied and moved right back into the face of the gutstar. Extremely annoying and completely predictable.

Redirecting the charge into Warlocks instead of into the BSB was not well planned. The Warlocks could just rally and move, while the peg BSB would have been stuck for a turn.


In hindsight I should have held back With maneaters and leadbelchers in turn two, even though their shooting was neutered by Magic. Better to take the charge and then countercharge, given that sufficient redirectors had been eliminated. On the 50% chance that comet didn't come down on first try Dark Reaper would have had the ugly choice of whether to charge all his soft units into comet area. His pegs might weather it, but he would suffer some damage.

Another small mistake I did that had large consequences was placement of Maneaters relative to warlocks on the charge. Maneaters did show a few milimeters of frontage on both sides of warlocks, enabling the Cloakpeg to charge. In the end the maneaters were killed so thoroughly that he weren't really needed. Still, details matter.




Dark Reaper managed to lead me round by the nose from turn two forward. Well played.
I have a few comments of course ;).

Given that I don't show my hand in deployment until he hade placed his whole army he did pretty well. With Heavens I would have recommended a group deployment of RBTs in the forward centre. Since any strong advance on my part would end up being redirected and charged by pegs he shouldn't be worried about grouping the RBTs for effect and fire lanes. Particularly since he don't know where my army will end up.

The fourth peg going after the small units of ogres on my right flank were wasted. First, the ogres aren't worth that much and are easily panicked by shooting. Second, the peg was more needed taking down the big three units on the left. And third, he temporarly forgot that ogres can march. I marched straight out of his turn three "perfect flank charge" arc.

Finally, a bit more agression would be nice. I was the one talking him into charging the gutstar on turn five instead of turn six, arguing that three turns of close combat would be necessary to kill everyone. Another turn of shooting doesn't have the same effect, particularly when said unit is in hard cover behind a wall.


This would be the first massacre I suffered With the list by the way. On the flip side it has first and fourth Place in tournaments. Plan moving forward: Don't face Dark Elves.


Fri Jun 20, 2014 8:55 pm
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I do agree photos from closer up highlight the action. Perhaps next time we could have the battle report from the pair of you turn by turn so we can understand each of the thought processes. Would make for a very nice and instructive read.

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Fri Jun 20, 2014 9:10 pm
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Highborn
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Amboadine wrote:
I do agree photos from closer up highlight the action. Perhaps next time we could have the battle report from the pair of you turn by turn so we can understand each of the thought processes. Would make for a very nice and instructive read.


I agree on the pictures. The reason for taking them from that angle is actually to get the dice showing which turn it is in the pictures for easy reference.

I like your suggestion regarding the separate point of view. As we are in a process of preparing for the tournament we do talk a lot about our different choices between the two of us, but getting it written down would no doubt be a plus.

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Fri Jun 20, 2014 9:56 pm
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Highborn
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Thanks to Pablo for mentioning the Lore of Heavens the other day. Heavens had been on my radar for a while, but I have to admit I have never really tried it. As suspected, it worked great against the Ogres, but it remains to be seen whether or not it will work as well against other armies.

In light of this I wanted to take a look at the lore within the context of my army, reviewing the spells and listing som pros and cons of the lore as a whole.

The Lore of Heavens

Lore Attribute - Roiling Skies
I don't like this attribute. It is not useless (at least not in the same way as smoke and mirrors is), but it still doesn't do anything worthwhile. d6 s4 is pretty much negligible against most things out there, except things you don't want to cast Heavens spells at, with a few exceptions. Against something like a Chimera for example, the extra d6 s4 hits might come in handy, as might they against an Eagle, Warhawk Riders or similar. It's just not very good and it only works against flyers. Please chime in if you know of any added utility for the attribute that I simply fail to see.

0 - Iceshard Blizzard
7+ basic
10+ boosted

A lore is often defined by its signature spell. If the spell is really good, the lore is often very useable, but if the signature is horrible, the lore is often much harder to use. Fortunately, Iceshard Blizzard is a fantastic spell, for a simple 7+ (which is 3+ anyway for a lvl4), you get the ability to reduce both the opponent's LD and to hit-roll by 1! You also have a 50% chance of stopping a cannon from shooting for a turn. This spell is simply fantastic utility and is easy to cast to boot. It works great with Dark Elves as we don't like getting shot at. The -1LD is also a godsend in an army with so much shooting and so few possibilities to break steadfast.

1 - Harmonic Convergence
6+ basic
12+ boosted

If my Darkshards are allowed to stand still and shoot, this is great! Re-rolling ones to wound and to hit is priceless for our RXBs. I may actually consider clumping my RBTs together to get most out of this spell if I choose to stick with the lore, but I am not sure if we can actually gain the most out of the boosted version. Anyway, the basic version is pretty good on its own for shooting. It is not at all good in combat though, as we already re-roll 1s all the time anyway. It could probably be used on a Peg for re-rolling armour saves, but I don't think that is very good value.

2 - Wind Blast
7+ basic
14+ boosted

I really don't like this spell and I think it is probably the weakest in the lore. Being able to push war machines behind a hill might be really useful, but I don't see this as a very good spell apart from that. It might have some tactical value that I haven't considered yet though. 14+ for the boosted version seems extremely expensive for a spell that still only has 24" range, especially considering that Purple Sun for example goes off on a 15+

3 - Curse of the Midnight Wind
10+ basic
20+ boosted

This is a spell I like. Against enemies such as Tomb Kings or anything with poison shooting, this spell is fantastic for us. It neutralises Skinks and Maneaters almost completely. Armies such as Wood Elves are also going to have enormous problems making an impact if they suddenly have to re-roll all their 6s to hit and wound. The single version is where it is at though, the boosted version is far too expensive to cast reliably. Pegs can survive a long time in combat if the opponent is affected with this spell.

4 - Urannon's Thunderbolt
10+ basic
13+ boosted

An old classic. I am not this spell's biggest fan, but it helps us greatly against targets with high toughness and is a decent addition to RBT fire. The main problem with the spell is that it is only d6 hits which can be fairly random. S6 plus maybe an additional d6 s4 hits can do a lot of damage to the right target though. Still, I would probably go for the buffs/debuffs over this one almost every day of the week.

5 - Comet of Cassanadora
12+ basic
24+ boosted

Another old classic. This one I am a great supporter of though. The comet starts with one marker, so it will always be at least 2d6+1 s5 hits on any unit hit. It also has unlimited range! This spell is a game changer! It can be used to destroy gunlines, much in the same way as Purple Sun, the main difference being that the Comet is easier to cast, but not as devastating. The relatively cheap casting value makes this spell relatively easy to cast on three dice at the last spell in a phase and it is usually something the opponent has to prioritize. You will always cast the basic version, the boosted version is way too expensive.

6 - Chain Lightning
15+ basic (cannot be boosted)

Why this is the 6th spell and Comet is 5th I will never know. Chain Lightning is pretty much a Thunderbolt that bounces, but cannot be boosted and is direct damage instead of magic missile. This means that you are stuck with a 24" range direct damage spell that does s6 hits to your target and may bounce. The main question here might be: what do you want to bounce it to? You often have one target you really want to hit with s6 and nearby units might not be as suited for the spell. I suppose this spell might be good for redundancy with Thunderbolt, but I already have Doombolt for that. Maybe this spell is better than I give it credit for as well, but I prefer Comet's damage potential every day of the week.

Overall

I have some thoughts on pros and cons regarding Heavens with this army, but I am way too tired now and will have to write that tomorrow.

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Fri Jun 20, 2014 10:52 pm
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Shade

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Chain lightning is pretty bad for the casting value.
Great job on the win!
I agree with. The comments about pictures. Also, another trick against ogres is utilizing your reapers extra 12 inch range on the itronblaster's.
The attribute isn't amazing, but vs an army like lizardmen where the terradon riders provide so much utility, it comes into it's own. Your analysis is pretty spot on. I'd just like to say that you. Should think of thunderbolt as an extra shot from an rbt. Strngth 6 is no joke.
I'm glad I could offer a useful opinion.
I love this blog.

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Fri Jun 20, 2014 11:17 pm
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Most importantly, is that a bottle of Innis & Gunn in the marsh? Very classy.


Sat Jun 21, 2014 5:18 pm
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Slave (off the Altar)

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@pablo: ironblasters have 52" effective range. 36" range + 10" bounce + 6" move and fire.
@Fisty: indeed :)


Sun Jun 22, 2014 6:01 am
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Shade

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Yeah I was just completely wrong. Hahaha

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Sun Jun 22, 2014 7:13 am
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Highborn
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Dark reaper wrote:
Overall

I have some thoughts on pros and cons regarding Heavens with this army, but I am way too tired now and will have to write that tomorrow.


I lie. I went on holiday instead. :D

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Fri Jun 27, 2014 8:03 am
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So, long time no update. I have been away on vacation and on honeymoon, but this weekend I attended the so far biggest tournament in Norway with 40 participants including 5 of the Norwegian ETC-players. I did not take any pictures, but below is a SHORT summary of the games.

My list:

Dreadlord, General, Light Armour, Sea Dragon Cloak, Dark Steed, Enchanted Shield, Giant Blade, Dawnstone - 258pts
Supreme Sorceress, lvl4 Death, Dispel Scroll, Ring of Hotek - 295pts
Master, Dark Pegasus, Heavy Armour, Lance, Sea Dragon Cloak, Shield Cloak of Twilight - 188pts
Master, Dark Pegasus, Heavy Armour, Sea Dragon Cloak, Lance, Armour of Destiny - 184pts
Master, Dark Pegasus, Heavy Armour, Sea Dragon Cloak, Charmed Shield, Lance, Talisman of Preservation, BSB - 211pts
Characters = 1136pts

25 Darkshards, Guardmaster, Musician, Standard Bearer, Banner of Eternal Flame - 340pts
9 Dark Riders, Shields, Repeater Crossbows - 180pts
5 Dark Riders - 80pts
Core = 600pts

Reaper Bolt Thrower - 70pts
Reaper Bolt Thrower - 70pts
Reaper Bolt Thrower - 70pts
Reaper Bolt Thrower - 70pts
5 Harpies - 75pts
5 Shades - 80pts
Special = 435pts

9 Doomfire Warlocks - 225pts
Rare = 225pts

Army Total = 2396pts

Game 1:

I met a Vampire Counts list with 2x9 Hexwraiths, Vampire Lord, 2 lvl1 death wizards and a big block of ghouls, as well as a terrorgheist and some wolves and zombies. He placed his terrorgheist in plain sight of all my shooting and I used my first turn to shoot it down. The player I played against was not very experienced so he moved his Hexwraiths too far forward and they were killed by Doombolts and my Lord. His ghouls and characters were then shot down and I completely wiped his army out. A 20-0 win for the Dark Elves.

Game 2:

I met one of Norway's best players and the one who would later go on to win the tournament, with Tomb Kings nonetheless. He had a lvl4 death and a level 4 nehekara as well as 4 sphinxes, a hierotitan, a casket of souls, a screaming skull catapult and all the shots in the world. I actually managed to get the upper hand when my Darkshards and Reapers shot down the Necrosphinx approaching my bunker after a lucky round of shooting and I decided to press my advantage. I therefore decided to fan my Pegs out and kill his Screaming Skull Catapult and Casket in the next round. I decided to move my BSB out of range of the bunker as I knew he would only get one shot with the Catapult at the most. This turned out to be a big mistake as he hit the unit, they fail their LD9 panic and then they run of the board...Fair play to my opponent for taking the shot and a huge slap in my face for being so stupid as to move my BSB away. He also snipes my Lord (w/ no magic resistance) off with Caress of Laneph IF. Even though I managed to take out most of his army as well, I couldn't touch the Sphinxes and bunker and it ended up as a 12-8 to the Tomb Kings. He really deserved the win.

Game 3:

I met a HE player who had 2 busses, one of Dragon Princes and one of Silver Helms. He had a level 4 on life without Dwellers so magic couldn't really touch me. Nothing much happened as I mostly danced around him and shot him off the board. In turn 6 I charged my Pegs in and took his characters off the board. I got 2550 VP and he got 155. 20-0 to the Dark Elves.

After day 1 I had 48 pts and was in 3rd place and things were looking good for the next day, so I was obviously complaining about how things could only go one direction from here.

Game 4:

Being in 3rd place I obviously had to meet the person currently placing 4th, my friend Olannon. This was probably one of the most intense games I have ever played. After doing an inexcusable mistake with my redirecting turn 1, his big cavalry bus were able to be in my face from turn 2. I had to retaliate to try and salvage something and the game turned into a big brawl in the middle. In the end both of us managed to take more than 2000VP from the other and it ended with an 11-9 win for the HE. I got lucky as he could have won much more if the dice didn't roll my way in a few crucial combats.

Game 5:

I managed to hold on to my 3rd place and drew the Norwegian WoC player in the last match. This is easily the worst game of Warhammer I have ever played. I made stupid mistakes all over the place and I let his multiple threats run all over me. I managed to kill almost nothing and he just ran towards me and killed everything I had. A 20-0 victory for the WoC. He managed to grab 2nd place due to this.

With 0-20 in the last match I fell from 3. to 13. place. I was, and actually still am, very mad at myself for playing so bad during the last game and destroying what could have been a very nice finish in a tough tournament. At the same time, I think I learned a lot from the last game and will definately not make the same mistakes again.

Anyway, the list is getting a nice little makeover. I found out that protecting the Darkshards is too hard and I have to think a bit outside the box this time. Look at this and see what you think, rationale will come later.



Dreadlord, Heavy Armour, Sea Dragon Cloak, Shield, Giant Blade, Dragon Helm, Dawnstone - 252pts
Supreme Sorceress, lvl4 Death, Dispel Scroll, Ring of Hotek - 295pts
Master, Dark Pegasus, Heavy Armour, Lance, Sea Dragon Cloak, Shield Cloak of Twilight - 188pts
Master, Dark Pegasus, Heavy Armour, Sea Dragon Cloak, Lance, Armour of Destiny - 184pts
Master, Dark Pegasus, Heavy Armour, Sea Dragon Cloak, Charmed Shield, Lance, Talisman of Preservation, BSB - 211pts
Characters = 1130pts

27 Black Ark Corsairs, Full Command, Handbows, Banner of Swiftness - 342pts
5 Dark Riders, RXBs, Shield - 100pts
5 Dark Riders, RXBs, Shield, Herald - 110pts
5 Dark Riders, RXBs, Shield, Herald - 110pts
Core = 662pts

Reaper Bolt Thrower - 70pts
Reaper Bolt Thrower - 70pts
Reaper Bolt Thrower - 70pts
Reaper Bolt Thrower - 70pts
5 Harpies - 75 pts
Special = 335pts

5 Doomfire Warlocks - 125pts
5 Doomfire Warlocks - 125pts
Rare = 250pts

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Mon Aug 04, 2014 12:04 pm
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Miscast into the Warp
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Shame about the 0-20, but it happens and at least you learnt. Well played up until then and thanks for the summary.
Interesting change to the Core. Looking forward to hearing the rationale behind it.

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Mon Aug 04, 2014 7:30 pm
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Sorry to hear about the loss to WoC, still given the change to your list I was curious about some aspects.

I use a block of corsairs with handbows but I've not put a dreadlord and L4 sorceress in there though, nor given them the banner of swiftness, I guess the goal is to protect the sorceress and still provide decent combat res to the DL? Since you play pretty competitively, how often does your L4 die, do people go after her?

The list also totals out at 2377 which I wasn't sure about either. If so, have you thought about giving either DL or L4 the ironcurse icon, it's only 5 points but it's not too bad. Might give you a second (slim) chance if you botch a cannon LoS, it also is a junk item to mitigate against arcane unforging.

Why the heralds in the two dark rider units? I'm assuming that's the champion going by the english book, or is it supposed to be the musician? Musician makes more sense to me but I figured I'd check.

Anyway, also curious to see what your overall insight was to the list changes.


Mon Aug 04, 2014 9:49 pm
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Dark reaper wrote:
I lie.


How very Dark Elf of you :mrgreen:

Dark reaper wrote:
I have been away on vacation and on honeymoon


Congrats! :D

Dark reaper wrote:
Game 1: A 20-0 win for the Dark Elves.


Your opponent had some good tools at his disposal, so a nice result! :)

Dark reaper wrote:
Game 2: 12-8 to the Tomb Kings.


He indeed must be some player to win a tournament with Tomb Kings. For their general lack of top level results, it has to be said that some nasty lists can be created with Tomb Kings, and you faced one here. Casket can ruin MSU setups, Catapult can ruin monsters, and while most lists out there have good anti-1+AS choices, not many have multiple ways of taking out multiple multi-wound T8 monsters!

Dark reaper wrote:
Game 3: 20-0 to the Dark Elves.


Doubly satisfying taking out the hated kin :twisted:

Dark reaper wrote:
Game 4: 11-9 win for the HE.


Curu Olannon is a top player, and a legend of mobile high elf play, so no shame in losing to him! High stakes matches with good friends are always the best. Your list does have the tools to compete with the HE Bus, so I look forward to the rematch!

Dark reaper wrote:
Game 5: This is easily the worst game of Warhammer I have ever played. A 20-0 victory for the WoC.


Somedays we have off days :P

Lot of positives to take from the tournament by the sounds of it, so I wouldn't be too down about it!

Dark reaper wrote:
Anyway, the list is getting a nice little makeover. I found out that protecting the Darkshards is too hard and I have to think a bit outside the box this time. Look at this and see what you think, rationale will come later.


Darkshards can under perform so I can see why you might want to try something else. I think your steed lord/multi-peg list is very optimised so I'm surprised to see the General back on foot (incidentally, I think your earlier WitchStar would be better with the Giant Blade lord on a Peg or Steed).

But... with handbow Corsairs you have short ranged shooting, stand-and-shoot option, multiple attacks (inc. shooting), and protection from light arms fire, as well as magical defence and offence from the SS, and anti-toughness-and-armour from the Lord. A quick and powerful unit, with a lot of support in the form of your chaff, Reapers and Pegasi.

I'll be very interested to see how it performs :)

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Mon Aug 04, 2014 9:51 pm
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Thanks for the feedback. :) The thing about the lord is that he dies, usually from death snipes, cannons or stone throwers after 5 warlocks has been shot away. I can't seem to find any way to protect him and it bothers me. I also found that a lot of good opponents could fairly easily neutralise my Darkshard threat. I am not sure Corsairs are going to be fantastic, but I think I will try it.

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Tue Aug 05, 2014 8:06 am
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Hey, thought I`d add a few thoughts here. First of all, here`s a BR from my point of view from game 4: http://www.ulthuan.net/forum/viewtopic. ... 46#p884046

So, onto the play and the list. Dark Reaper most certainly played well and achieved a high placing before the 5th game, despite running into a very solid TK player (who plays at my club and have multiple strong tournament results with that list, he took best general at a similar event back in May) and having a hard game vs me. The problem in the TK and WoC game is in my opinion experience. It`s impossible to know exactly how to handle a threat you haven`t faced before, no amount of skills or talent can weigh up for not being properly prepared. Given the possible builds these days, it`s nigh on impossible to face everything prior to a tournament, it would require something like 30-40 high-skilled games which few, if any of us, have the possibility to do.

Regarding the new list direction, the point of the corsairs is to provide cheap wounds and a pushing unit. The idea is to land Pegs here if need be, to create a truly terrifying unit. With 2 pegs the front rank consists of 1+/4++, 1+ re-roll and 1+/4++. With 3 ranks and 2 banners, this is downright terrifying to fight. The pegs can also split up and go out, so in essence the unit configuration is both flexible and strong. As Dark Reaper points out, it`s also a way to keep the lord safe. Having played the HE Cavprince for a while, I know exactly how hard S7 and 1+ re-roll is.

It would appear the latest draft hasn`t been posted here, as I do believe the inclusion of Shades eventually made it. This allows the L4 and Lord a secondary haven as Corsairs can easily be killed in droves by artillery, for example OnG, Dwarfs and Bretonnia can easily put a big hurt on the unit and losing LoS! is disastrous.

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Wed Aug 06, 2014 9:38 am
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Phew. Interesting battle reports across the board (for some reason, I havent noticed your battle log here until now :O )

You play the loveable pegasus list with the steed-lord variation. I like how you make such good use of it - I always found that a steedlord was simply too "out there", as you take an obvious shooting target in the warlocks and make them even more of a target by including your army general.

Your description of warriors of chaos mirrors my own thoughts on them. "Multiple threats running across the board with no apparent though involved, killing everything that stands in their way". God I hate them so much. They can weather most shooting due to extreme armor and ward saves, they just wont die in close combat either, and hit like trucks. And then the fact you have a single turn of bolt thrower shooting to kill the demon prince, or he will just go and rip apart basically any unit you've got. F me :p WoC is one of my most frequent matchups, and I just still have no idea how to play it. It always comes down to the WoC coming across the board, ramming his numerous chariots and characters into my stuff, and destroying them.

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Wed Aug 06, 2014 10:44 am
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A magically assisted Dreadlord with Dawnstone + Giant Blade will take anything WoC can throw at him and come out on top, unless he`s on foot and it`s a DP in which case thunderstomp tips the scales.

As for the rest of their army, chaff, chaff, chaff! WoC`s 3 biggest weaknesses are magic, board control and big things that just don`t die. DE lack the third but have plenty of the two former.

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Wed Aug 06, 2014 10:47 am
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Another very big issue for WoC is mixed speeds or frenzy.

A typical army of WoC is comprimised of very fast elements (heroes on disc/dem mounts) + slow elements in several chariots.
If you back away from his chariots (and focus fire the closest ones Down), they should not reach combat anytime soon. He is then faced with either charging only with his fast elements (Which OTS should make sure you can handle), or waiting for his chariots. Either way, you are in control of the game.

If he brings Skullcrushers, have fun redirecting them; preferably in front of his other units.

Im not saying WoC are weak. Im saying they have some inherent weaknesses we need to exploit.

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Wed Aug 06, 2014 11:34 am
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