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Army Blog - The Dark Reapers - Dragon Lord Musings 
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Highborn
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Joined: Mon Nov 11, 2002 10:43 am
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Location: Trondheim, Norway
I am liking the idea of some Shades though. I can actually have quite a lot of them if I drop one or both unit of Harpies and maybe a bolter as well. I will have to think about this. :) This is what I like about getting advice and creating discussion.

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Wed Feb 18, 2015 11:31 am
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Malekith's Best Friend
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Good to see your reports are moved to this section, followed your reports for a long time and learnt a lot from them ! I am still a total noob lakcing the experience you have, but learning.

When I see you new list which I like very much, it also seems my list could hurt it a lot in the shooting phase. Your witches and kharibdyss will drop easy by RXB fire. If you come to close with dark riders and warlocks they are also gone.

In combat, my 300 bsb master on manticore that eats a BDE in de turn of combat, are their combined attacks not able to kill your general as the dragon strikes last ?

Again I am very unexperienced, and you will likely win if we were to ever be matched, but how would you tackle my list ?




Supreme Sorceress, general, level 4, shadow Magic, cloak of Twilight 270

Master, BSB, manticore, halberd, heavy Armor, sea dragon cloak, shield, black dragon egg 309

10 Darkshards, musician 130
10 Darkshards, musician 130
10 Darkshards 120
5 Dark riders, RXB 95
5 Dark riders, RXB 95

5 Shades 80
5 Cold One Knights 150
1 War Hydra, fiery breath 180
3 Reaper Bolt Throwers 210

5 Warlocks 125
10 Sister of Slaughter, handmaiden of shards, standard bearer, banner of eternal flames 180
1 Bloodwrack Shrine 175

PS. after checking your battle reports, I notice the placement of the reapers. From now on I will also deploy them 12" away, but I see sometimes Reaper deployed at the back of a forest, does that not block your line of sight or -2 to hit ?

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The 13th Legion


Wed Feb 18, 2015 12:19 pm
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Highborn
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Location: Trondheim, Norway
The list I have been playing for the last months is this one:

Dreadlord, Heavy Armour, Shield, Sea Dragon Cloak, Giant Blade, Dragonhelm, Dawnstone, Potion of Foolhardiness - 257pts
Supreme Sorceress, Lvl4 Death, Dark Steed, Ring of Hotek, Dispel Scroll - 315pts

Death Hag, Cauldron of Blood, BSB, Banner of Swiftness - 315pts

33x Witch Elves, Full Command, Razor Standard - 438pts
5x Dark Riders, Shields - 85pts
5x Dark Riders, Shields - 85pts

5x Harpies - 75pts
9x Shades - 144pts
9x Shades, Standard - 154pts
Reaper Bolt Thrower - 70pts
Reaper Bolt Thrower - 70pts
Reaper Bolt Thrower - 70pts
Reaper Bolt Thrower - 70pts

10x Doomfire Warlocks - 250pts

I have gotten a bit tired of it and wanted to try something else. That being said, if you met this, you would have some serious problems as there aren't that many points for you to take. You can kill me with shooting, but I shot better than you and your units are more vulnerable to shooting than mine.

I read a few of your BRs the other day, and it looks like you are improving. I don't think your list would be an easy fight for my list at all. That being said, if I can get rid of your RBTs somehow, I think the dragon would be allowed to roam rather freely. I haven't used a Shrine, War Hydra, Sisters of Slaughter or Manticore with the new book, so your list is actually rather unfamiliar to me, but I have some idea how it works, and I have to admit, there are reasons why I don't take them myself. :P I was actually contemplating placing a master on a manticore myself, until I realised that it costs more than a Cauldron of Blood, which is just plain madness. How is it working for you?

I don't think your Manticore would be able to do much to my lord. KB doesn't work against monsters or their riders, so you would only have a few s5 attacks and a few s7 attacks from the master. If my calculations are right, you actually do well below 1 wound on average. You could attack the dragon I suppose, but I fail to see how you would be able to kill it with only 7 attacks and a breath weapon. It it actually quite hard to kill a Kharibdyss with RXB fire. You will need aprox 45 HITS to kill it, which means about 90 models shooting. Your shooting should rather be put to use against my squishier elements, such as Warlocks or Dark Riders, if I let you get in range of them.

I am probably the only player in the world who thinks this, but I mostly find Cold One Knights to be a waste of points. They have their uses and bring some much needed high S attacks, but they are quite vulnerable, despite their 2+ save and in a unit as small as 5, each casualty is going to hurt you a lot.

I agree with you that Witch Elves aren't the best fit in this matchup. They are their mostly for fighting opponents with lots and lots of wounds that my shooting or CC threats cannot deal with effectively and also because Darkshards are comped.

Hope this helped a bit. :)

Lastly, I am also curious how you use your Shrine, and would love to get some input about it and how you use it.

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Wed Feb 18, 2015 12:42 pm
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Against the list you used last months I will struggle for sure, the new one looks much easier to handle with as you lack the shades and anything difficult to hurt besides the dragon and reapers.

Ah ! Good to learn these things on time, I did not know the Manticore doesn't get KB against a character on a monster. I think it is going to be rather hard to get rid of the RBT with the pegasus master or two units of harpies if I play defensive, as BSB on manticore will be able to take out your pegasus master. I guess those units you stated are a bit more fluffy and therefore underestimated by the enemy who would expect peg masters, fast cavarly or two towers (witches or executioners) lists. For me all them proved very efficient and powerfull so far.

BSB Manticore was started out of fluff and theme, but I actually prefer it now above the pegasus. Mainly because of the more specific role as BSB, improving its re-roll bubble with 1/3 (which is huge) and the less solo idendity to hunt juicy warmachines or missile infantry. I field it even without the 4+ because of points, but so far the 4 tougness 5 wounds have been too much for the enemy who also want to shoot down the Shrine and Hydra. In four games, the BSB never died, while saving a lot of units with its re-rolls or countercharge. The 300 points are totally worth it so far, more synergy with the army than a CoB ever could. I hope to prove its worth by every new battle report with him.

You are rights that the Kharibdyss needs a lot of attack unsupported, but I guess in nearly all magic phases I should succesfully cast at least 1 spell. When I have access to soulblight, doombolt and withering (90% of the time) and got one of them on the Kharidbyss, 60 bolts from the darkshards would be enough to kill it in 1 turn. War Hydra or possible BDE Manticore can roast 2/3 of the witches without their ward save, that's 10 left. That still leaves me with 3 reapers and 30 RXB shots for anything else in the same turn ! With Lore of Metal, and Soulblight + Doombolt you have to get within range of my RXB fire, so I can just wait for you to come.

Ofcourse you outshoot me with artillery, so I did not calculated any incoming damage with changes the matter completely in your advantage. With this MSU army with a lot of dangerous, hard hitting but small units I find that incoming casualties don't make that much of a difference, combo charge are a must most of the times, but most units are also fast. Remember this is all on paper, in reality I am pretty sure you tackle all of this and defeat me ;)

Lastly, the Shrine of Slaughter : WOW. I call it the Shrine of Slaughter because it is an amazing unit when the Shrine and Sisters are combined into 1 unit. I did not tested them separately, or the Shrines synergy with a small unit of dark riders, warlocks or cold one knights. But I believe the Shrine can even make a darkshard unit defeat most elite infantry units. Until now you have seen the Shrines especially in the Two Tower model of Dalamar, but I believe it is much better and more effective in MSU lists than Two Tower lists.

The most effective rule of this unit is the Will of the Gods. Even when you deploy your small unit of 10 or 5 models in normal 2 x 5, when the Shrine joins that unit and got placed in the front and centre, it pushes the rest of the models alligning the Shrine. Therefore that leaves only 2 models in base contact with the enemy + the Shrine. This works with infantry and cavarly. Most effective ofcourse is with infantry because of its footprint, making a unit of 10, the same as one of 25 (with three ranks). Therefore it will be much harder to kill that infantry unit than before, as the infantry unit is only in base contact with maximum of 6 enemy models. All the other attacks have to be diverted to the tougness 6 wounds of the Shrine. Other very important add to a unit :

- Terror
- MR 1
- +1 Leadership (enemy -1)
- D6 + 1 strength 5 Impact Hits
- Swiftride

So suddenly your 10 darkshards cause terror, are leadership 9, have 6+ ward save against magic and inflict D6+1 strength 5 impact hits on the charge, if the enemy did not already flee. Then the enemy has to make a fear test with - 1 (otherwise hitting on 5's). As extra you have the Medusa magical killing blow attack and two attacks from shrinekeepers. Besides that, they go into combat with 3 ranks ! Now imagine an enemy heavily armoured unit of 10 knights who failed his charge and therefore is charged by you. You will likely win combat because of the impact hits and rank bonus. This was an example with a small units of 10 darkshards, but think about the hundreds of possibilities with any of our units. Something extra which is very important, is when you had you LVL 4 in that darkshard unit, while it had at least two command models (musician and standard bearer). Normally your LVL 4 is dead, but with the Shrine you can protect her behind the command models against any harm !

The combination I field is the synergy with the sisters of slaughter. In combat, they have the best save of our infantry, the 4+ ward save, so very hard to kill. Besides that, they neglect enemy rank bonus and parry saves, while having 3 ranks with only 10 models theirselves. Add all the other extra's I just mentioned and they become superkillers. Also here you have so much possibilities, adding two fully killed masters in the front rank, with a lot of life wizards to heal up the shrine and buff the unit.

I had not tested them in battle before yesterday, when they faced warriors of chaos with the mark of nurgle. I think warriors of chaos are the best infantry in the game? The Shrine of Slaughter (10 sisters + shrine with flaming banner) charged 22 of them, including exalted BSB and LVL 2 wizard, heavily buffed by his magic and killed 6 with impact hits alone. All of his returning attacks (he needed 5's because of fear) were ward saved or couldn't penetrate the Shrine. He did 1 wound to the Shrine, lost combat and got caught. Shortly after it easily killed a Chariot and 5 Chaos Knights with only 1 casualty in return. All this for only 355 points ! I personally like to believe that there is nothing that can beat this thing in combat.

Conclusion ; Bloodwrack Shrine is amazing

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The 13th Legion


Thu Feb 19, 2015 12:28 pm
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Highborn
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I am having a game against Daemons today. For some reason, I decided to buy and put together a Scourgerunner Chariot which I am going to try today. I hope to post a BR where I write down all my hate for it by the end of the night.

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Sun Feb 22, 2015 9:38 am
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Dark reaper wrote:
I am having a game against Daemons today. For some reason, I decided to buy and put together a Scourgerunner Chariot which I am going to try today. I hope to post a BR where I write down all my hate for it by the end of the night.


Looking forward to the BR !

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The 13th Legion


Mon Feb 23, 2015 11:19 pm
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Dark reaper wrote:
I have to admit I lost some interest in writing this a while ago, when I figured that I was pretty much talking to myself and occasionally two or three other people


With 4927 and counting views, you are definitely not talking to yourself and two or three others :P

I've greatly enjoyed this thread, and I'm sure that many others have as well.

I know what you mean though; feedback is good.

@ Forum Membership and Lurkers

The more feedback we give to quality posts like the ones in this thread, the more quality posts we will tend to get ...and the more quality posts we get, the more opportunity for positive feedback ...and so on and on, in a building postive loop of good quality content and discussion :)

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Fri Mar 13, 2015 3:58 pm
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Miscast into the Warp
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T.D. wrote:
@ Forum Membership and Lurkers

The more feedback we give to quality posts like the ones in this thread, the more quality posts we will tend to get ...and the more quality posts we get, the more opportunity for positive feedback ...and so on and on, in a building postive loop of good quality content and discussion :)


^^This, very much this.

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Fri Mar 13, 2015 6:43 pm
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