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Army Blog - The Dark Reapers - Dragon Lord Musings 
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Slave (off the Altar)

Joined: Thu Apr 03, 2014 7:04 am
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The Coven is indeed a very interesting thought, I hadn`t even considered it!

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Sat Apr 05, 2014 9:52 pm
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Slave (off the Altar)

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Amboadine, you`re a genius! List suggestion:

Dreadlord, Heavy Armour, Sea Dragon Cloak, Giant Blade, Shield, Dragonhelm (General) - 252pts
Supreme Sorceress on Dark Pegasus, Lvl4 Light, Cloak of Twilight, Dispel Scroll - 345pts
Sorceress on Dark Steed, L2 Light, Channelling Staff, MR(2) - 170
Sorceress on Dark Steed, L1 Light, Scroll of Shielding - 105
Death Hag on Cauldron of Blood, BSB, Banner of Swiftness = 315

Characters = 1187

9 Dark Riders, Musician = 154
34 Witch Elves, Full Command, Razor Standard - 449pts

Core = 603

5 Shades = 80
4 RBTs = 280

Special = 360

5 Warlocks = 125
5 Warlocks = 125

Rare = 250

Army Total = 2400

Rationale: a lot of the poor matchups for the WE-star include things that can win a ranged fight and/or redirect the Witchelves for long enough for them to not have a strong enough impact on the game. In essence, I took the core described in the last post and removed a single unit of Shades, spending the remaining points on 2 more mages with the Lore of Light and changing the Lore on the Supreme Sorceress as well. Also, the Dreadlord now has 1+ re-rollable instead of 1+ and stubborn and he sports a 2++ vs Fire. This is because the overall nature of the list has change drastically.

Let`s take a look at typically poor matchups with the original list:
- Empire
- Shooty Ogres
- Daemons (lots of chaff, Skullcannon is strong against Cauldron and Nurglewall is hard to kill when WE are chaffed away)
- Lizardmen (poison, redirection)
- Ethereal-heavy VC

Suddenly, all of these matchups have become average (at worst), and downright good at best (I don`t see any Daemon list that wants to face this one, nor Ethereal-heavy VC). Literally all of the spells in Lore of Light are good with this list: Timewarp on the Witchelves is super-powerful, Pha`s is as always strong, Net disables a WM, Speed of Light makes the Witchelves a nightmare to face (being WS4 they`re usually hitting on 4s, even with re-rolls this could be better), Light makes a unit unbreakable (actually it`s even better), Banishment is ridiculous with S6+ and lastly Shem`s help cover the weaknesses of the list: especially against DoC and VC where you can throw 3 magic missiles on 2D6 and reliably get the spell off scoring 2D6 S4 hits.

It also allows the list to score way more points at a distance and in a lot of matchups you won`t even have to advance the WE since the opponent has to come to you.

Yeah, food for thought ;)

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Sun Apr 06, 2014 9:36 am
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Miscast into the Warp
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Thank you, just reapplication of others success.
I like the list but would still rather see at least a couple of units of Dark Riders in there, and still not sold on the need for 4 RBTs.

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Sun Apr 06, 2014 10:38 am
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Highborn
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Amboadine wrote:
@ Olannon. Some interesting musings, which I agree with most of the points. Although I would say if you are going to use 3 sorceresses, going the way of a light coven is not a bad option. Death snipers are a nice option however.
Not convinced that 4 RBTs are needed, so you could free up another 140 points to play with by only using two, to get another small unit in or give the DRs the shields, rxbs and musicians they do so well with and still have 80 points left.


This is a really interesting idea, and one that I am bound to try out at some point. I believe the fast moving coven can be really powerful and hard to catch for the opponent.

As for now, I am having a battle against Vampire Counts on Wednesday. I won't make many changes to my list, but I want to try switching up the equipment on the characters just a tiny bit. The dreadlord will get Dawnstone instead of Crown of Command, and I will see if I can find 5 more points to give my Supreme Sorceress mr(1) for 2++ against magic. They are probably going to come from the Death Hag, who will get a different configuration. I can't really seem to find anything that fits her...

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Mon Apr 07, 2014 7:22 pm
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Warrior

Joined: Fri Dec 27, 2013 1:07 am
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My vote is usually to leave the death hag naked, but then I'm always a fan of naked chicks. ;-)

Seriously though, I can't see the point in putting items on her when she dies so very easily. I do think Cry of War is a steal, though, and would always spend those fifteen points.


Thu Apr 10, 2014 2:11 pm
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Highborn
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I will consider that option. :) It will still give me 55 points to spare, giving me a few more warlocks if i want to.

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Thu Apr 10, 2014 2:43 pm
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So, I had a game against my friend Drakim's Vampire Counts yesterday and the Cauldron finally saw combat. (yay!)

I decided to use the same list as I did against the WE.

Dreadlord, Heavy Armour, Sea Dragon Cloak, Giant Blade, Enchanted Shield, Crown of Command (General) - 254pts
Supreme Sorceress on Dark Pegasus, Lvl4 Life, Cloak of Twilight, Dispel Scroll - 345pts
Master, Heavy Armour, Shield, Sea Dragon Cloak, Ring of Hotek (BSB) - 157pts
Death Hag on Cauldron of Blood, Rune of Khaine, Sword of Anti-Heroes - 345pts
Characters = 1101pts

34 Witch Elves, Full Command, Razor Standard - 449pts
5 Dark Riders - 80pts
5 Dark Riders - 80pts
Core = 609pts

4 Reaper Bolt Throwers - 280pts
5 Shades - 80pts
5 Shades - 80pts
Special = 440pts

5 Doomfire Warlocks - 125pts
5 Doomfire Warlocks - 125pts
Rare = 250pts

His list:

Vampire Lord, level 4, Master of Dark Arts, Black Periapt, Talisman of Preservation
Necromancer, level 2, lore of death, Dispel Scroll
Necromancer, level 2, lore of death, Scroll of Shielding, Obsidian Trinket
Necromancer, level 2, lore of death, Book of Arkan
20 Zombies
5 Dire Wolves
5 Dire Wolves
47 skeleton warriors, Spears, Full, Command, Banner of Swiftness
29 skeletons, hand weapon & shield
10 Crypt Horrors, Champion
Spirit Host
Spirit Host
Spirit Host
Terrogheist
Varghulf

Deployment

I rolled up Awakening of the Wood, Flesh to Stone, Throne of Vines and Shield of Thorns on my level 4. This was probably not optimal, but something I could live with. He rolls up 3xSpirit Leech, Caress of Laniph, Soulblight and Doom of Darkness on the necros as well as Raise Dead, Gaze of Nagash, Vanhel's and Invocation of Nehek on his vampire. That is a lot of snipes.

He had so many drops that by the time I was finished, he had placed almost no units of any importance at all. Well, at least the support elements of my army are fairly mobile, so I could always redeply a bit. I had some trouble finding places to put my RBTs and I am not completely happy with their placement. I realised that I had to be effective in clearing out his chaff units early on, so that the Witch Elves could find meaningful combat with the big blocks as nothing in his army had any chance at all of dealing with that unit.

Image

After Vanguard

With four units of Fast Cav on my side and two units of Dire Wolves on his side, this proved to be an interesting start to the game. Drakim moved his Dire Wolves forward, while I pulled my Warlocks back a bit to be out of screaming distance, in case he got the first turn. I let my left unit of Dark Riders stand back, so that I could get a charge if I got the first turn. I did.

Image

Turn 1

The left Dark Riders charge the Dire Wolves. They were probably going to get countered by the Varghulf, but I did not care. I needed them out of the way. My Warlocks move up to get in Doombolt range of his Spirit Host, and the rest of the army moved up aggressively.

Magic was 10v6 and my Warlocks decided to cast Doombolt with IF on the Spirit Host. With the 2d6s5+2d6s1 hits, they only managed three wounds however, and in return, two of the Warlocks died. This was really bad, as 1 or 4 wounds on a Spirit Host doesn't really matter at all. He dispels soulblight twice with dice. Halfway into my second turn, I have killed more of my own stuff than of his.

In shooting, the Shades combine to take out the Dire Wolves, while the four Reapers miss ALL of their shots. Every single one!

In combat, the Dark Riders easily dispatch the Dire Wolves and overrun.

Image

Drakim doesn't declare any charges, instead opting to Move the Varghulf forward, as he was afraid I would only flee with the DR anyway. His terrorgheist moves in to howl at one of the Shade units, leaving its flank wide open for the half-depleted Warlock unit! If they only had not blown themselves up last turn...Otherwise, he shuffles around a bit.

For the Winds of Magic, he rolls a 6 and a 1. Luckily for him, he has the Master of the Black Arts power. He picks up the 1 and promptly rolls another 1. His dice are all drained after he IFs Gaze of Nagash on one of the Dark Rider units and kills a bunch of skeletons in the process.

His terrorgheis takes aim at the Shades. He need a 7 to wipe them out, but he rolls Snake Eyes and the Shades are still very much alive.

Image

Turn 2

The Warlocks find the flank of the Terrorgheist all too tempting, and I declare a charge. I also make sure to redirect the Varghulf with the last remaining Dark Rider, in case he survives all the shoots coming at him this turn. The other Dark Rider unit zips around the skeletons to be used later.

Magic is 9v5 as I manage to channel twice. Both Warlocks both tries to cast Soulblight at the Terrorgheist. The ones not in combat is stopped with dice, but the ones in combat gets IF and blows up another one. I now only have two left to kill the beast... Flesh to Stone on the Warlocks is scrolled.

In shooting, the Shades don't really have any decent targets, so I shoot of some zombies, reasoning that his Vampiric caster is such a long distance away and that he can't really raise any. The reapers combined do 3 wounds to the Varghulf, but fail to kill it.

The Warlocks put 1 wound on the Terrorgheist in combat, and win by 3. Only two more wounds to go!

Image

His Varghulf charge the lone Dark Rider, the big Skeleton unit charges the Witches in the flank, and his units redeploy a bit. (I forgot to take a picture this turn) His Spirit Hosts all fail their charges against the central Reapers, needing 7", 7" and 8".

Magic is 12v7 and the first casting of Gaze of Nagash deals 2 wounds to my Supreme Sorceress, despite the Cloak of Twilight. This means I have to scroll Caress of Laniph and dispel Spirit Leech with dice.

The terrorgheist fails to wound the Warlocks with its scream and were cut down by the poisoned blades. The Witch Elves win the combat with the skeletons comfortably and reform to face them, knowing that I will wipe them out this turn and can then reform back to facing the Crypt Horrors/Skeleton bunker.

Turn 3

As my Warlocks are now free, they charge the depleted zombies to snipe the Necromancer. The other warlocks move around to be within range of the Varghulf. I need to get rid of him this turn.

Magic is 10v8 and I start with castings of Throne of Vines and Flesh to Stone, just to heal my lvl4. He dispels them both, but uses all of his dice in the process. I now have 4v0 and his scroll is gone, and I decide to cast Awakening of the Wood to heal back one of the wounds I lost. A double 1 later, my Sorceress still hasn't healed at all, and I can't cast Shield of Thorns to heal either. The warlocks also fail a two dice Soulblight on the Varghulf.

My shooting finally kills the Varghulf and the Witches kill the Skeletons in combat and reform.

Image

He doesn't declare any charges and just shuffles around to prevent any charges on his skeleton bunker.

In the magic phase, he gets 6v4. I dispel GoN on the Sorceress and he casts Vanhel's Dance Macabre on the Crypt Horros in case I want to charge.

The Warlocks kill some more zombies in combat. He kills one of the Bolt Throwers with Spirit Hosts.

Image

Turn 4

My Witch Elves charge his Crypt Horrors, while my Dark Riders flanks the Skeletons, ensuring that a 4" or more overrun move will bring me into contact with the skeletons.

In my magic phase, I get 8v5 dice and cast Doombolt with IF on one of the Spirit Hosts, killing it, as well as one Warlock. Flesh to Stone is dispelled.

In the combat phase I make short work of his Crypt Horrors, overruns into the skeletons and kills the General as well as the remaining skeletons. The Warlocks kill the rest of the Zombies. The Spirit Hosts crumble due to the loss of the general.

Image

Image

The game ended here as he did not have any models left on the board. He had killed one RBT and one unit of Dark Riders, giving him 150VP. I killed his whole army, giving me 2550 VP. Even though the numbers are high, I did not feel that this was an easy fight at all and he had me on the back foot during deployment. I really think the Ring of Hotek helped me a lot here, as he could not simply snipe my General and BSB for easy points. It was also completely essential that I took out his chaff so early, so he could not redirect the Witch Elves. The (wo)men of the match were the Witch Elves who took out all of his big points, but they could not have done so without the Dark Riders and the Shades, who cleared the way for them. The RBTs did for once not do very much, while the Warlocks were solid as always.

It is worth noting that there were a lot of strange rolls in this battle. I could not cast one spell with my Supreme Sorceress, and all the spells that were cast by me were with IF. He also failed to charge a Bolt Thrower with two units of Spirit Hosts two turns in a row, needing 5" the second time.

Anyway, it was a crushing win for the Dark Elves again! Comments and criticism are, as always, very welcome! :D

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Thu Apr 10, 2014 3:51 pm
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Nice work. Always good to kill off the general, makes it all easier from there. Congratulations.

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Thu Apr 10, 2014 5:41 pm
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Killed by Khorne
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Nicely played :)

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Thu Apr 10, 2014 5:49 pm
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Highborn
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Thanks guys. I am not completely satisfied with my own play. I made some mistakes I should not have made and they could have cost me more than they did. The list looks good so far. It is very safe, as it is almost impossible to get big points from it, but you can't make that many mistakes if you want to get big points from it either. I will elaborate more tomorrow.

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Thu Apr 10, 2014 8:57 pm
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Slave (off the Altar)

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Interesting game. Spirit Leech spam is a strong strategy which can win games on its own if the opponent isn`t prepared.

Deployment-wise I believe the RBTs are placed too far ahead. I see no reason to have them near the 12" line like this: especially given the rest of your army I think they can safely chill out at the edge of the table, spaced 6.1" or more. The problem with putting them far ahead is not only their inherent vulnerability to charges, but also the fact that things who charge them can also relatively quickly get back in the fray. The extra ~10" or so you gain from putting them at the board edge means that most units will not do anything significant after having hunted them down. I know some DE/HE players prefer to space them as much as 12" to avoid any potential overruns as well. While I consider this a little overkill, I think that more than 6" and the back field is very good, unless there are good hill available to provide supreme vision of the battlefield.

The Shades also had a nice position, but again I don`t understand why they are so close to eachother. Keep them more than 6" apart and they still fulfil the same role, without panicking eachother off the table (LD8 is crap).

Other than this, deployment was pretty much perfect: you got the chaff where you needed it, the Witch Elves are hard to completely redirect off the table etc.

Vanguard: Defensive vanguard is good for you. Offensive vanguard is suicide for him. He has nothing whatsoever that can handle your Witchelves. His only hope of winning is to eliminate the chaff and redirect the Witchelves. Barring very bad play on your part, a big victory is close to impossible for VC here.

Early game: Vanguarding the chaff and committing the Terrorgheist sealed the deal here, in my opinion. He lost all elements which could compete for board control (which was totally unnecessary as well, in my opinion) and you could pretty much do as you wanted. Despite poor selection from Life (a common problem, unfortunately), you managed to put out the hurt through the Warlocks (showcasing their flexibility). Also, Gaze of Nagash averages a little over 1W on your Sorceress so taking 2W is far from unusual. The 3++ is deceptively weak against a multitude of magic missiles out there.

Middle game: You were lucky his Spirit Hosts didn`t make your RBTs (re: previous comment about deployment). Going into Witchelves was suicide. Having cleared the TG the Locks are free to start chopping mages. The game pretty much ends here.

Good deployment and early game decisions on your part sealed the deal. You managed to capitalize on his mistakes and use the various elements to full effect. Yes, a bit lucky here and there (Shades surviving TG, Spirit Hosts not reaching RBTs) but in the end, I don`t think it affected the result too much: winning board control (i.e. killing chaff and TG) won the game. Well played :)

Oh and a thought experiment: what would you have done if he had swapped all the Crypt Horrors for Hexwraiths? With 2 decent sized units, board control suddenly isn`t that easy for you any longer, especially considering Vanhel`s as well ;)

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Fri Apr 11, 2014 10:38 am
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Highborn
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I agree about the RBTs. On the other hand, I did not really feel that they were threatened during deployment, as I did not expect his Spirit Host to be going for them. I thought they would be used to redirect the Witches instead.

About the Shades; you are absolutely correct. There is not even any good reason for the units being deployed in a line. They should have been 3+2 for saving space. If the Terrorgheist had screamed away one of the units, the other could very well have paniced off the board. This would not have been a disaster, but still quite unnecessary.

I have been thinking about the Hexwraith build, and I am not completely sure if I should be pushing or defending against something like that. There really isn't anything in that list that can kill the Witch Elves, but I am unsure whether or not the Hexwraiths can just kill the rest of my army on their own. I figure I would probably try to push, clearing out all Dire Wolves and other small chaff units as a number one priority, as he can't really use the Hexwraiths for redirecting, they are too expensive.

Correct me if I am wrong, but if a unit of hexwraiths is standing 24" away from another unit, they can't possibly inflict damage to that unit, barring some odd circumstance like a double Vanhel's cast? If that is the case, Dwellers might be an option to reduce them a bit.

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Mon Apr 14, 2014 10:29 am
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So, it seems I am facing rusty again this Friday. He is going to a big tournament in Sweden, the Masters, in the near future. After deciding that Wood Elves can't really compete right now, he is changing it up a little and bringing his ogres instead.

His list:

Heroes (575pts)
Bruiser (170pts)
General
Great Weapon, Heavy Armour
Ironcurse Icon,Talisman of Preservation
Bruiser (191pts)
Battle Standard Bearer, Great Weapon
Armour of Destiny
Firebelly (214pts)
Great Weapon, Wizard Level 2
Dispel Scroll, Ruby Ring of Ruin
Core (610pts)
10x Gnoblars (25pts)
10x Gnoblars (25pts)
10x Gnoblars (25pts)
9 Ironguts (432pts)
Full command
Standard of Discipline
3 Ogres (103pts)
Bellower
Additional Hand Weapon
Special (871pts)
8 Leadbelchers (364pts)
Bellower, Champion
7 Maneaters (444pts)
Bellower, Poisoned Attacks , Stubborn
Maneaters (62pts)
A Brace of Ogre Pistols, Light Armour
Sabretusk (21pts)
Sabretusk (21pts)
Sabretusk (21pts)
Rare (340pts)
Ironblaster (170 pts)
Ironblaster (170 pts)
Total: 2396 pts

The list is hard as nails and has a lot of nasty shooting. Fortunately for me, my list is also hard as nails and has some decent shooting. His main weaknesses against my list are probably close combat and magic. There is really nothing in his list that can compete with the Witch Elves. Even if he manages to kill the cauldron and half of the unit before they see combat, they will still pretty much chew through anything given their amount of attacks.

He does, however, outshoot me and he has a lot of chaff. The game is probably going to come down to how I mange to deal with his chaff. That means my RBTs, Shades and Warlocks will have to deal with three Sabretusks and three units of Gnoblars. No easy task, but it shouldn't be completely undoable.

Any thoughts on how I should approach this battle?

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Tue Apr 15, 2014 1:27 pm
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Slave (off the Altar)

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Face the witchstar backwards to avoid being redirected.


Tue Apr 15, 2014 1:54 pm
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Slave (off the Altar)

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Image

See picture above. Hopefully you can see it :). . It's a standard table after all your units have deployed , bar scouts. One ST (sabretusk ) were deliberately set close to the building to block scouts.

Where to go from here?

As I see it my army should deploy in the corner furthest away from WE. That could let me use the house to slow the WE, but might also block my shooting.

I could split deployment, with gutstar behind the forest, one shooter unit and a cannon behind the hill. They all move and shoot, thus eliminating some DE first turn shooting.


Tue Apr 15, 2014 3:15 pm
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Highborn
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I uploaded the picture to photobucket.

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Tue Apr 15, 2014 3:29 pm
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Did a bit of analyzing on this one. My best guess is Dark Reaper will win if I make any mistakes in chaff deployment and movement. If I don't make any mistakes I will have a minor victory. If I somehow roll very well for shooting and manage to deplete the witchstar enough to charge inn, then I will win big.

By the numbers, I control deployment. The challenge is how to best exploit it. Suggestions?

A higly salient point during deployment is what happens right after. Dropping chaff to control deployment does nothing good if those are shot and killed during turn one. Not much of a problem for gnoblars, they like being shot at. It's an improvement on their current situation. Sabretusks however die easily and are very much needed mid to late game.



Looking at shooting
Ironblasters have a 53% chance to kill RBTs outright, doing 2,2 wounds on average.
The cauldron will on average suffer 1,1 wounds, even with the bigger base. Life magic ensures that I must kill whatever I target in one turn, otherwise it's a waste. Neither do I have the option to support IB's with fireballs or BS-shooting, they will just hit the unit. Which in turn is protected from shooting by the cauldron.
8 leadbelchers will kill 4 witches at long range, not impressed.
Summed up: shooting at the witchstar is a bit of a waste. Particularly since it's a damage dealer only "in potentia". It won't do anything before it hits something expensive. The rest of the DE army will do damage from turn 1, and all damage done to them will reduce damage coming back at the ogres.


If I hit CC, what happens?
A frontal charge, guts on witches does not end well. The gutstar is "armoured" by T5, WS5, 4++ bruisers. Witches in horde formation will do roughly 4 wounds to a bruiser. Reroll hits, poison and reroll wounds is nasty. Then there's the DE lord who will add 2 wounds.
The gutstar, if the characters survive and the cauldron is active can expect to to 10 wounds between impact, attacks and stomp.
After the first 1-2 turns when the ogre characters are gone it's a complete massacre in favour of the witches.


Thu Apr 17, 2014 10:21 pm
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I had a game against rusty’s Ogres last Friday, but I did not have the time to write it up until now.

I used the same list as in my previous games.

Dreadlord, Heavy Armour, Sea Dragon Cloak, Giant Blade, Enchanted Shield, Crown of Command (General) - 254pts
Supreme Sorceress on Dark Pegasus, Lvl4 Life, Cloak of Twilight, Dispel Scroll - 345pts
Master, Heavy Armour, Shield, Sea Dragon Cloak, Ring of Hotek (BSB) - 157pts
Death Hag on Cauldron of Blood, Rune of Khaine, Sword of Anti-Heroes - 345pts
Characters = 1101pts

34 Witch Elves, Full Command, Razor Standard - 449pts
5 Dark Riders - 80pts
5 Dark Riders - 80pts
Core = 609pts

4 Reaper Bolt Throwers - 280pts
5 Shades - 80pts
5 Shades - 80pts
Special = 440pts

5 Doomfire Warlocks - 125pts
5 Doomfire Warlocks - 125pts
Rare = 250pts

His list:

Heroes (575pts)
Bruiser (170pts)
General
Great Weapon, Heavy Armour
Ironcurse Icon,Talisman of Preservation
Bruiser (191pts)
Battle Standard Bearer, Great Weapon
Armour of Destiny
Firebelly (214pts)
Great Weapon, Wizard Level 2
Dispel Scroll, Ruby Ring of Ruin
Core (610pts)
10x Gnoblars (25pts)
10x Gnoblars (25pts)
10x Gnoblars (25pts)
9 Ironguts (432pts)
Full command
Standard of Discipline
3 Ogres (103pts)
Bellower
Additional Hand Weapon
Special (871pts)
8 Leadbelchers (364pts)
Bellower, Champion
7 Maneaters (444pts)
Bellower, Poisoned Attacks , Stubborn
Maneaters (62pts)
A Brace of Ogre Pistols, Light Armour
Sabretusk (21pts)
Sabretusk (21pts)
Sabretusk (21pts)
Rare (340pts)
Ironblaster (170 pts)
Ironblaster (170 pts)
Total: 2396 pts

Deployment

He wins the roll to pick sides, which is extremely important given the nature of the board. He had a large impassable piece of terrain near his corner, which he could use to maneuver around.

I roll up Throne, Regrowth, Shield of Thorns and Dwellers. He gets Fireball and Flaming Sword on his Firebelly.
Again, I play against an army that has so many drops that it is extremely difficult for me to get a decent deployment. Still, I was actually quite happy with how it turned out, despite the Reapers being a bit out of place.

Image

After Vanguard/Scouts

I place one unit of Shades on each side of the table. Rusty made a huge error in deployment in that both his sabretusks where within 6" of the gnoblar unit on his right flank, and I wanted to capitalise on this. He also had one unit of Gnoblars and a unit of Ogres isolated on his left flank that I wanted to get some easy points from. With my +1, I win the roll to go first.

Image

Turn 1

My Witch Elves move forward and I shuffle around a bit on the flanks. I move the sorceress forward to be within 24" of the Gutstar so I can try Dwellers. One unit of DR acts as her screen.

Magic is big! 11v6. I start of with a 4 dice doombolt on the gnoblars in front of the Maneaters. This actually kills 9 gnoblars, with the last one passing his panic check, just enough to get one of the sabretusks to not be within 6" any more...However, my magic isn't done yet. I cast Throne with two dice, and I am surprised to notice that Rusty lets this one go. I immideately follow this up with an IF Dwellers that kills 5 Ironguts.

Shooting kills the last gnoblar, but the sabretusk passes his ld4 panic check. The maneaters also passes their panic test. The rest of my shooting kills one maneater, all of the Gnoblars on his left flank and puts two wounds on one of the Ironblasters.

Image

In his turn he does not declare any charges, instead opting to kill stuff at range.

Magic is 2v1 and I dispel a Fireball on the Shades. The combined firepower of the Maneaters and the Ironblasters kill 3 Reapers...Well, it has a decent chance of happening I guess, and after my first Magic Phase I shouldn't complain anyway.

Turn 2

I move up aggressively, and use the Shades to redirect the Maneaters, so they won't charge my Warlocks.

Magic is very noneventful. Even though I get 11v6, I fail to cast anything. He dispels doombolt on a sabretusk and I fail to cast Dwellers.

In shooting, I don't really have that much after my Reapers got killed, but my Shades manage to kill one ME and put two wounds on an Ogre.

Image

He charges the Shades on both sides of the board. The ogres take a wound to S&S and run off the board. He puts some chaff in front of the Witch Elves to hinder them from killing the Leadbelchers.

Magic is 10v7. I dispel Flaming Sword of Rhuin and he can't cast Fireball as he is in combat.

His ironblasters put two wounds on the Cauldron, but both fail to wound the Hag!
The Maneaters easily dispatch the Shades.

Image

Turn 3

I turn my brain on for a minute and charge the Cauldron out of the unit and into the Leadbelchers. I easily make it. Then I turn off my brain. I FORGET TO MOVE MY SORCERESS! On the one hand, this isn't something I really have to care about, because she can easily withstand the solo Sabretusk about to hit her in the flank. However, due to the fantastic Realm of Battle Board, the Ironguts standing next to the building, where really standing higher up on the hill, but had just slid down, meaning that they really were in position to charge the Sorceress as well. I could blame the board, I could blame the 3 hour boat trip, followed by the 2 hour car trip I had taken prior to the game, but in the end, this is on me. Some extremely poor play.

Magic is 8v6 and even though Doombolt is dispelled, I manage to get off Shield of Thorns on the Cauldron irresistably. It promptly does 5 wounds to the Leadbelchers and I heal a wound on the Cauldron. I shrug off the miscast.

In shooting, the remaining Shades kills one sabretusk after my Reaper missed it with all of its shots.

In combat, the cauldron kills a Leadbelcher, the Hag is killed in return, but they fail their break test and are run down.

Image

He charges and kills the Supreme Sorceress after I fail to roll 10 to get through the Warlocks. I hope I learned something from this.

Not much else happens this turn. The Maneaters pick off one Warlock with shooting and the Cauldron saves two cannonballs.

Image

Turn 4

I decide to do something incredibly stupid again and charge the Gnoblars next to the Witch Elves with my Shades. They promptly flee and are now in front of the Witch Elves, who cannot move towards the Maneaters due to this...The Shades redirect into the Sabretusk, which elects to hold. The Reaper moves to get some better firing options.

Magic is 10v5. I fail one Doombolt and the second is dispelled. I cast Frenzy on the Shades to make it a bit easier against the Sabretusk. They easily dispatch it.

Image

He surprisingly charges his BSB into my Shades. I was very OK with that, as that would put him into view of my Reaper as well as several Doombolts. The Shades S&S and do two wounds to him.

Magic is 8v5, but he fails to cast Fireball. Both Ironblasters misfire, but both of them gets the turn around result. The Shades do one wound to the BSB in combat, leaving him on one wound. He kills three of the Shades, but they manage to get away.

Turn 5

Very blurry picture here. I charge my Cauldron out to kill his gnoblars. They fail their terror check and runs, but the Cauldron runs them down. Shades rally.

Magic is 3v2 and I manage to get three 6's when casting Doombolt on his BSB!!! Unfortunately, 2d6 s5 and 3d6 s1 produce zero wounds on him, but fortunately my Reaper is able to kill him.

Image

On his turn, he charges the Cauldron with the now half-depleted Gutstar. Again, a mistake on my part, leaving it out in the open like that. I did not think that the Gnoblars would run that far.

Magic is 6v5, and he casts Flaming Sword of Rhuin on the Ironguts with IF. The miscast does nothing of notice.

In combat, he kills the Cauldron.

Image

Turn 6

I move around a bit, making sure that he can't charge my Warlocks with his Ironguts.

In magic, I kill some Ironguts with Doombolt, getting them below 25%, and puts some wounds on the characters. His general takes two wounds.

Image

In his turn, he charges his General, who is now on two wounds, out of the unit and into four Warlocks. I haven't done the maths, but I don't find it that unlikely that they will simply kill him. However, he does as he has done on every charge so far, rolls 10 or more to get the all-important d3 impact hits. Magic is 12v6. He double 1's Fireball on the Shades and I dispel it with dice. The miscast doesn't hurt him. Ruby Ring kills one of the two Shades. In combat, his Bruiser takes one wound, but after some great ward saving, he is left with the one. I have one Warlock remaining as well. And that was the end of the game.

In the end, he won 11-9. He played better than me, so I feel like it was deserved. On the other hand, I think I could have won if I did not make so many mistakes, which is frustrating. This also marks my first loss with the new Dark Elf book. Hopefully the flood gates have not been opened. :D

Comments and critcism are very welcome, as always!

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Thu Apr 24, 2014 8:30 am
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Warrior

Joined: Tue Dec 07, 2010 7:51 pm
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I am following your progress as I am building a similar DE list. But I dont Get your character set up. They must join the witch elves. You never write about withches backstabbing general/BSB. They are bound to Get hurt every other game, and with two wounds, your BSB is in jeopardy of getting killed.

Do you really need the crown on general? Dont you win every combat anyways? Wouldnt dawnstone be better for protection, both against backstabbing and enemy attacks?


Thu Apr 24, 2014 9:09 am
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Highborn
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The witches do 0.145 wounds to a 1/2+ armour character each turn. It really isn't that big of a deal. The Life Sorc is also extremely helpful if this should occur. In the first game against Wood Elves, she actually healed two wounds on the BSB during the match.

As for your second point, I have considered this several times myself. Dawnstone/Dragonhelm would be a much better protection than Crown/Enchanted Shield and I am considering switching.

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Thu Apr 24, 2014 9:19 am
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Miscast into the Warp
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Thanks for the write up. You understand where you went wrong in leaving characters isolated and vulnerable, so it unlikely you will do that again in a hurry.
I would agree on the potential to change the generals load up.

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Thu Apr 24, 2014 9:37 am
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Slave (off the Altar)

Joined: Thu Apr 03, 2014 7:04 am
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I`m not a fan of the table impacting the game as much as it did here. There`s basically one corner which both sides are drooling over, which is unfortunate. Realms of battle does make it kind of harder, but I think one can simply agree that "that`s not a hill" for example :)

So onto magic: not getting Flesh to Stone here is very, very unfortunate. Dwellers is strong and the combination with Soulblight is amazing, but Flesh is very versatile in this matchup. Shooting T5 Warlocks is a nightmare, for example. It highlights one of the key weaknesses of Life: it is so selection dependent. Some games it`s truly awesome, some games it will downright lose you the entire thing. I have played my fair share of Life games (mostly with the old HE-book using a seerstaff mage), and even with a perfect selection (throne, flesh, regrowth, dwellers), it`s hard to make good, tactical magic phases pay off. You either get a huge spell through and do loads, or you don`t and the entire phase is "meh". At least your list synergizes well with Lifebloom, which is (possibly) the saving grace here.

Deployment: Witches have a really nice position here. When I saw it I was thinking: "hmmm they might actually see useful combat here!". The RBTs should all be at the backline in my opinion. Rest is fine, lots of flexibility. I`m not a big fan of the chaff on the East being so close, a panic can quickly cascade but I suppose most of them are in BSB bubble so it`s not that big of a deal.

T1: I don`t think I would have prioritized Dwellers this early. You need to win the chaff war, everything else is secondary. With 5v6D6 I suppose your options are limited though. Perhaps just skip throne entirely and go doombolt x2 + soulblight? An interesting thing in a big phase is to start off with Soulblight - does your opponent let it through in the face of a possible IF Dwellers? If he dispels you can pretty much double doombolt for great justice ;) Shooting: did the ones targeting the Maneaters not have any chaff to shoot at? Dispersed shooting is usually ineffective against Ogres. Unlucky with the cat passing Ld4. Your third reaper dying so early impacted the game massively: deploy on the board edge and the Maneaters have no choice but to leave it alone.

T2: Not a big fan of the Shades redirecting here. Warlocks are fastcav so if Maneaters charge they`re in for a merry ride. Just angle the Warlocks so that they run towards the LD bubble and you`re fine. Besides, Shades are super-powerful in this matchup: they excel against his chaff and can really put the hurt on the squishy ogres. You lose a big magic phase because Dwellers is risky, even with an L4, when you can only spend 5PD. I think a general strategy for 11v6 should be 3D6 Soulblight (if he lets it through you can consider Dwellers but any sane general would stop this, in my opinion) then 2x 4D6 Doombolt.

When this turn is done you have won the East flank BIG, which reveals a big mistake: placing the 3 Ogres outside of LD bubble. Doing this is situational at best, suicide-vp at worst.

T3: What`s blocking you know is what I`m wondering why you didn`t target with more doombolts and shooting when instead you cast Dwellers twice and tried shooting apart Ironblasters and Maneaters. With the excellent deployment of the Witches and the East flank completely obliterated, you should be in a position now to completely devastate his centre with the deathstar. Anyways, your Cauldron is free and charges out: not a bad thing considering Leadies will have a hard time against its T6. The L4 Sorceress. Well yeah you won`t do this again ;) As for sliding units, in cases like this I make it clear with my opponent right after a unit`s done moving whether it`s in another unit`s arc or not. Prevents stupid mistakes.

Magic: I`m questioning Shield of Thorns here. Don`t you want to stay in combat here? I mean it`s a fairly safe place compared to 2 Ironblasters shooting their imbalanced cannons in your direction. Besides, there`s more chaff to go around :D 8D6 should just be double doombolt, in my opinion ;)

T4: seems to be a rule misunderstanding here. As soon as something declares a flee reaction, they roll their distance and move. NOTHING happens before this is done. When this is done, the charger decides whether to try and complete the charge, or redirect. After this, you move on with declaring charges. In this case, this would`ve let your Witchelves charge (and most likely catch, granting you a free reform as well!) the fleeing troops, so playing the rules properly this is actually a brilliant move on your part, whereas fleeing is a terrible mistake by rusty. Magic - seeing you fail so many doombolts forced me to look it up. It`s roughly 90% chance of success on 4d6 with an L2 wizard. Did you always use 4d6? On 3d6 it drops to just above 60% so the last dice is very "effective" here and should rarely be left out, unless you`re in truly dire straits. Frenzy is in my opinion risky here as you`re forced to overrun. The turn photo is also very hard to evaluate, where are the Witchelves facing?

T5: why didn`t the whole unit charge the Gnoblars? Any reason for the Cauldron doing another one-man army stunt?

T6: I think the safest bet here is to simply reform Witchelves into 1 or 2 ranks, so that they`re just blocking the Ogres from doing anything but charging them, should they wish to do so.

Highly interesting game, thanks for the report :)

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Thu Apr 24, 2014 10:34 pm
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Noble

Joined: Tue Aug 06, 2013 6:48 pm
Posts: 466
Norse_malekith wrote:
I am following your progress as I am building a similar DE list. But I dont Get your character set up. They must join the witch elves. You never write about withches backstabbing general/BSB. They are bound to Get hurt every other game, and with two wounds, your BSB is in jeopardy of getting killed.

Do you really need the crown on general? Dont you win every combat anyways? Wouldnt dawnstone be better for protection, both against backstabbing and enemy attacks?


I have a Dreadlord in the Witch block most of my games. He didnt get one single wound in more then 10 games from them. But reroll all wound dice is a big plus.

Im surpriced he shot the Reapers first. Most games i play the Ogre shoot anything on the Expensive witch block and trying to kill the CoB with the Cannon.
Maybe i should consider playing more Reapers. Not that they are useful after they shot the Chaff.. they could be a magnet for shooting so my important stuff is safe :)

Btw: I like your Battle reports. Really good work.


Last edited by Askador on Fri Apr 25, 2014 6:10 am, edited 1 time in total.



Fri Apr 25, 2014 5:53 am
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Highborn
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The Cauldron is actually extremely resistant to cannons with its 5 wounds and 4++. This combined with Life Magic is usually enough to keep it alive. The Reapers on the other hand, not so much. They are also extremely good against ogres, as they can quickly kill a lot of their more expensive troops, such as Maneaters. This is especially efficient if you can get a casting of Soulblight off first.

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Fri Apr 25, 2014 6:06 am
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Noble

Joined: Tue Aug 06, 2013 6:48 pm
Posts: 466
Dark reaper wrote:
The Cauldron is actually extremely resistant to cannons with its 5 wounds and 4++. This combined with Life Magic is usually enough to keep it alive. The Reapers on the other hand, not so much. They are also extremely good against ogres, as they can quickly kill a lot of their more expensive troops, such as Maneaters. This is especially efficient if you can get a casting of Soulblight off first.



I lost mine 2 times now from cannons. Im so afraid of them that i tend to have a Pegasus Guy with Twlightmantle infront of it against Cannons. (Helps also to make an unwanted frenzy attack impossible)
2 Reapers usualy kill one ogre a Turn. To me thats not soo impressive.


Fri Apr 25, 2014 6:14 am
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