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Rumours of 7th ed. DE Army book (?) 
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Beastmaster
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Hi all together.

While reading the new Rulebook I had some fun with the example stat-lines for the different races. As it happens the most important thing I found was a manticore with S6 and Ld7.

So I decided to open a rumour post for all stuff concerning an upcoming DE Army book.

So the first one is that GW will use the stat-lines printed in the rulebook also in the new army books.
To argument for this I found the Orc-Gargbosses are printed with S5 T5, as rumored and the banshee and their ethereal guys are stated with T7 (=new rule for ethereals?).

I am aware that a army book for our beloved DE is quite far away, but rumoring is so much fun :roll:.

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Fri Sep 15, 2006 6:21 pm
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well the stats are plainly wrong. it is pre revision for us and many others are just wrong. so sorry

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Fri Sep 15, 2006 7:06 pm
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What do you mean with "pre revision"?
As I interpret your tone there was simply one guy writing this without reading the actual army book properly. Well, this could be the reason why the Beastmasters come from another city now.
- how sad :cry:

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Fri Sep 15, 2006 7:16 pm
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beastmaster apprentice M5 (was updated to 6 in the revision) cold one knights ld 8.. was updated to 9 in the revision.... man eaters having wrong LD.. etc.. there are so many errors in there it is silly

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Fri Sep 15, 2006 7:25 pm
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Cat-the-Odd wrote:
as rumored and the banshee and their ethereal guys are stated with T7 (=new rule for ethereals?)


I would really curse if this was the proposed rules change for ethereal models - it makes absolutely no sense at all.

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Fri Sep 15, 2006 7:31 pm
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Funnily enough COK are given as having both Ld 8 (back of the booklet) and Ld 9 (army intro in the beggining of the booklet).

Only have the booklet though, don't know about the big book though.

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Fri Sep 15, 2006 7:36 pm
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Yeah, I'm afraid that the rulebook has a ton of errors.

Now, back to the spirit of the post, I have a tidbit to add. I've been told that Malekith is getting a different mount... If only I could say more. :X But I have a feeling he's going to become far more effective, and someone we might actually consider taking after the change.

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Fri Sep 15, 2006 8:42 pm
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concerning the errors about pre-DE-revision stats in the new rulebook i guess they just copy-pasted the old rulebook and stats in the new one and started from there while totally ignoring the revisions and errata. it's stupid, sure, but not totally inexplicable. it's time pressure, sloppyness and, well, typical GW.

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Fri Sep 15, 2006 9:45 pm
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The wierd Toughness of ethereal units is there to try give an idea of how the unit is without actually having 'Ethereal' as a rule - bascially they are very hard to kill without some sort of magic weapon (or warmachine but thats besides the point)

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Fri Sep 15, 2006 11:23 pm
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Is this a rumour thing or a lets talk about etherials?

I don't know any rumours but I have hopes we get something like you pay x amount of points and your highborn trained in Har Ganeth as an executioner so he has killing blow with a great weapon.

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Sat Sep 16, 2006 5:24 am
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I think a lot of people have been hoping that. Rather than a generic highborn every time, you could add a lot more flavor.


Sat Sep 16, 2006 5:57 am
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We've been mentioned as one of the armies that are being looked at currents, however we're not among the next three releases or so. There won't be a set timetable for when the new army book will be released (too far in the future) but its certainly likely to be late 2008 or 2009, probably not much later than that.

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Sat Sep 16, 2006 10:39 am
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id reall like some new minis if we get a new book.

definatly a good noble/highborn model. (the other elves seem to get these even when other armybooks are being released)

a box set or two. possibly dark riders, corsairs, WE, execs anything really.

like Slerac Fellblade said an honor system would be good. ive been hoping for one of these for a long time.

a decent amount of time in white dwarf. for example, the amount of time woodelves got in there was about 4 issues. dwarves had about 3. I'd like someting similar to get across that the DE are a plausible army (instead of one that people think thats onl there becasue of the fluff of the HE)

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Sat Sep 16, 2006 12:27 pm
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A New Noble? Highborn would be great for the Next GT I go to. It would be nice to use an actual GW model instead of worrying that a red shirt or some player will notice and be all pissed that one to three of my character minis aren't GW issue.

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Sat Sep 16, 2006 4:57 pm
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Well, as I understood the Lord/BSB plastic Boxes will come out for all races. So we will have a customisable Lord on a Mount (probably a Cold One), which can be built to be BSB as well. Probably a few different heads (with/without helmet) and a few weapon choices (I imagine Lance and Hand Weapon, with RXB as the usual glue on)

GW is going the "more plastics" route, so we will have a new plastic regiment box. My money is on all plastic Dark Riders, very few other choices can compete there. And it would nicely reflect the HE Warriors/Silver Helm Boxes.

That's pure speculation based on GW's current policy, btw.

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Mon Sep 18, 2006 1:22 pm
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If i'm not mistaken, in the last Gav Thorpe interview he said specifically that we won't be getting a new book for awile but that there are some plans in the immediate future for some new models.

I do believe he is talking of character releases since we obviously didn't get ours.

I don't think that it will be a plastic one either. I don't think it makes sense for elves. I would rather have a variety of quality metal models to choose from than having a somehat varied lesser quality model that everyone else has!

I think the new OaG book is going to concretely pave the way for the rest of the armies being released after it in the future.

What is there, like 15 new goblins characters alone?? PLus a new plastic warlord!

If they do anything like that Dark Elves, it will most likely be a plastic Dragon Kit.

I could also see them releaseing some new COK nobles and perhaps new scorceress models. They probably won't do assassins again though, nor beastmasters.

I will be happy with just plastic Dark Riders for core releases. The rest of our models should be metal as it is much better quality.

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Mon Sep 18, 2006 1:41 pm
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Hi

Here are a few rumours picked up from Warseer about the DE which are apparently in playtesting.

* Dark Riders can be upgraded like Silver Helms. Repeating crossbow for free.They don´t have attibutes yet but they still are fast cavalry.
* Corsairs, 1 point less. An option can be Skirmish.
* Warriors:The same as Now. May St,mu, and ch cheaper.Poisoned arrows +1pt
* Chariots LD 9
* This one is 90% pushed back-->Witch Elves: Skirmish and ward save 6+. If Cauldron Of blood is in the Army, 4+.
* All weapons in DE army have piercing
• Testing piercing on Xbow
• Cold ones can re-roll Stupidity if a beastmaster is in a certain range ( testing)
• War Hydra: (Ideas BrainStorm) Flame atacks. S6 with 6 wounds, S5, 5 wounds, and so on.//Regenerate//Stubborn LD8 while apprentice are alive

The guy posting them was at great pains to say these are playtesting ideas only at the moment and may not make it to the book.

Hope this is of interest to all you guys.

I personally like the idea that RXB's may become poisoned and the changes to the Hydra.

Have fun

Vogon

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Mon Sep 18, 2006 5:19 pm
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Drools....

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Mon Sep 18, 2006 5:22 pm
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Vogon wrote:
Hi

Here are a few rumours picked up from Warseer about the DE which are apparently in playtesting.

* Dark Riders can be upgraded like Silver Helms. Repeating crossbow for free.They don´t have attibutes yet but they still are fast cavalry.
* Corsairs, 1 point less. An option can be Skirmish.
* Warriors:The same as Now. May St,mu, and ch cheaper.Poisoned arrows +1pt
* Chariots LD 9
* This one is 90% pushed back-->Witch Elves: Skirmish and ward save 6+. If Cauldron Of blood is in the Army, 4+.
* All weapons in DE army have piercing
• Testing piercing on Xbow
• Cold ones can re-roll Stupidity if a beastmaster is in a certain range ( testing)
• War Hydra: (Ideas BrainStorm) Flame atacks. S6 with 6 wounds, S5, 5 wounds, and so on.//Regenerate//Stubborn LD8 while apprentice are alive

The guy posting them was at great pains to say these are playtesting ideas only at the moment and may not make it to the book.

Hope this is of interest to all you guys.

I personally like the idea that RXB's may become poisoned and the changes to the Hydra.

Have fun

Vogon


I want those rules :D
especially the witch elves, and poisoned/armour piercing rxb's


Mon Sep 18, 2006 5:32 pm
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Vogon wrote:
Hi

Here are a few rumours picked up from Warseer about the DE which are apparently in playtesting.

* Dark Riders can be upgraded like Silver Helms. Repeating crossbow for free.They don´t have attibutes yet but they still are fast cavalry.
* Corsairs, 1 point less. An option can be Skirmish.
* Warriors:The same as Now. May St,mu, and ch cheaper.Poisoned arrows +1pt
* Chariots LD 9
* This one is 90% pushed back-->Witch Elves: Skirmish and ward save 6+. If Cauldron Of blood is in the Army, 4+.
* All weapons in DE army have piercing
• Testing piercing on Xbow
• Cold ones can re-roll Stupidity if a beastmaster is in a certain range ( testing)
• War Hydra: (Ideas BrainStorm) Flame atacks. S6 with 6 wounds, S5, 5 wounds, and so on.//Regenerate//Stubborn LD8 while apprentice are alive

The guy posting them was at great pains to say these are playtesting ideas only at the moment and may not make it to the book.

Hope this is of interest to all you guys.

I personally like the idea that RXB's may become poisoned and the changes to the Hydra.

Have fun

Vogon


I would be happy if half of those were in there. If all our weapons were armour piercing, that alone would be an amazing boost. Cheaper corsairs are also a great thing to see. Poisoned RXBs would be a bit over the top though imo. With the volume of fire we can put out, monsters would be laughably easy to take down, and all but the hardest rank and file units would be swiss cheese. I think armour piercing would be a more reasonable upgrade. If our whole arsenal got it, I would rejoice. Armour piercing spears are something I have long dreamed of and advocated. Armour piercing witch elves are too delicious to even contemplate, as are armour piercing corsairs. I would love to see that change. I just dont think it should be coupled with too many other bonuses, otherwise it may get a bit ridiculous (under no circumstances should it be coupled with poisoned RXB shots for example).

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Mon Sep 18, 2006 5:32 pm
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I particularly like the poisoned RXB's because "real world" RXB's (developed in the far east) *were* poisoned to make up for their lack of killing power compared to other bows of the same era.

I think that it should be poisoned but not armour piercing on the RXB's as this would be more "historically accurate"

Cheers

Vogon

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Mon Sep 18, 2006 5:38 pm
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:lol:

*Thinks how effetive his 16 RXB elves will be with poison.*
Convert all hits to wounds. Shabba

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Mon Sep 18, 2006 5:49 pm
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To hell with you GW! :evil: what does this stupid joke mean? ORC bss ST5, T5? I hope they will give VERY strong magic,cult of Slaanesh and better skilled warriors, becaouse kill this little guy would be very difficult.


Mon Sep 18, 2006 6:18 pm
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Sezax wrote:
To hell with you GW! :evil: what does this stupid joke mean? ORC bss ST5, T5? I hope they will give VERY strong magic,cult of Slaanesh and better skilled warriors, becaouse kill this little guy would be very difficult.


What on Earth are you on about? You seem very angry, and over what appears to be a falsehood. Orc Big Bosses are S4. Even if it were true I have no idea what relavence it would have to this thread.

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Mon Sep 18, 2006 6:30 pm
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RasputinII wrote:
:lol:

*Thinks how effetive his 16 RXB elves will be with poison.*
Convert all hits to wounds. Shabba


Indeed. You would cause an average of 5.33 auto wounds per 16 RXB guys, not even accounting for the wounds you would cause with the remaining hits that wound. Thus, a giant would be dead in one turn in most cases, a hydra in 2, and a dragon in 3. Two units of 16 would be dreadful. Our gunlines would start to make Skaven look reasonable. The only vulnerability would be knights, and of course we have RBTs, Executioners and what would now be kitted knight killing nobles to deal with that. This would be an absurdity fo epic proportions, and would turn an army that is supposed to be dynamic and offensive into a gun line. Count me out. As it is our RXBs are competitive. A slight improvement like armour piercing should be sufficient, whatever the historical precedent (and normally I am sympathetic to historically accurate solutions to gaming problems). There are times when game balance needs to take priority over historical consideration, and this is definitely one of those cases.

The only way I would see poison as being acceptable is if it came with a very significant cost increase, say +5 pts. 24" range 2X shot BS 4 units that are capable of reforming into competitive combat units, that's good enough as is. Poison is way over the top for a mere +1 pts. We can pump out such a high volume of shots (which is of course what is most important for poison weapons), at good range with a high degree of accuracy. We have a very competitive cost to shot ratio of 5.5 at an effective BS of 3. Poison would be ridiculous when combined with these features. I would expect armies with 4-5 units of 15 strong RXBs and 4 Reapers to pop up over night. Imagine 90-120 shots, in which 15-20 autowound a turn, plus a good extra 5 wounds from hitting on 5's. Combine that with the casualties caused by Reapers. Now add in new and improved Shadow and Death magic and some knight killers. Even all 1+ save knight armies will be losing 6+ knights a turn from shooting alone. We would handily win shooting contests against every gunline I can think of. I just cant see how one could think this is a reasonable idea.

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Mon Sep 18, 2006 6:37 pm
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