Chariot charges, reaches target and aligns into a wood

[Thanee]

Ok, so my Chariot makes a charge, easily reaching the target, but then when it is aligned properly, its back wheels into a wood.

I suppose it does get damaged now (d6 S6 hits as normal). Alright.

What if the Chariot gets destroyed, does it still cause impact hits?
Do they count towards CR for that round?

Bye
Thanee

[Lazarus]

Although I'm no expert on WFB by any means, having spent the better part of the last 30 years with wargames I would suggest the following....If you charged through clear terrain, impacted in clear terrain, "aligning" should not by any means cause you damage. Either push the whole fight over a tad to clear the terrain or simply ignore the difficult terrain for the sake of that charge. Aligning is simply a means of defining combatants, not the combat itself.

[Zakath the slaughterer]

The BRB says that if the charger can't align to a combat then the defender should. I think this qualifies as one of those situations.

Just my two cents..

[Dark Alliance]

I concur with these feelings. And would rule so in a tourney situation too. Anyone who claimed you would take damage should be shot!

Obviously it is a fine line between fudging a battleline and trying to circumvent a unit which has positioned next to a wood to avoid a chariot charge.

[Crawd]

The BRB says that if the charger can't align to a combat then the defender should. I think this qualifies as one of those situations.

Just my two cents..

He's right, since the Chariot didn't moved in the wood, you align the chariot as much as you can until you almost touch the wood and then you align the defender.

[Arcturus]

But the chariot CAN move into the wood, it just takes damage if it does so. I think it's unfair to start fudging enemy units just because you don't want your chariot to get damaged by a charge you make. You make a call to charge, you end up with your rear wheel in the woods, not really the opponents fault, he's the last one who should pay for this.

Cheers

[Linda lobsta defenda]

Agrees with Arcturus, the chariot can move into the woods. It will take damage but it can so it has to align to the defenders.

[Thanee]

Ok, leaving the underlying question aside, how the aligning should be done, and also the shooting of my very self, since I claimed that my chariot would take damage with this maneuver myself, what about my actual question...

Assuming the aligning takes place and the chariot gets damaged... and destroyed.

What about the impact hits?

Bye
Thanee

[Ehakir]

You make the charge, have to align to the woods as you are able to do so, take the hits, if killed you won't do impact hits, otherwise you would.

The defender align part is for a flyer charging a target partially in a wood/a steamtank charging an unit partially in terrain IMHO

[Hasdrubal]

Personally, I'd roll a d6.

Aside from that, I would say that the chariot would take the d6 S6 attacks, but the impact hits of the chariots will still count. At least in my thinking, you made contact first (thus those hits are given first) then you "ran" into terrain (those are next), and then regular combat.

As to if the terrain will give your opponent CR res, I wouldn't believe so, since the terrain is a "neutral party." But, thats just me thinking again.

But, again, if it causes this much discussion during the game, its best just to roll the d6.

[Thanee]

As to if the terrain will give your opponent CR res, I wouldn't believe so, since the terrain is a "neutral party." But, thats just me thinking again.

Interesting thought... I meant the impact hits counting towards CR, though, not the destroyed chariot.

But, again, if it causes this much discussion during the game, its best just to roll the d6.

That was definitely not a problem.

I'm just curious, how others would decide in such a situation.

Bye
Thanee

[Dalamar]

You run into terrain and get hit immediately, if you're destroyed, you're destroyed in movement phase.
Impact hits are dealt at the beginning of close combat phase, but your chariot isn't there anymore.

[Linda lobsta defenda]

You run into terrain and get hit immediately, if you're destroyed, you're destroyed in movement phase.
Impact hits are dealt at the beginning of close combat phase, but your chariot isn't there anymore.

Agreed.

[Crawd]

But the chariot CAN move into the wood, it just takes damage if it does so. I think it's unfair to start fudging enemy units just because you don't want your chariot to get damaged by a charge you make. You make a call to charge, you end up with your rear wheel in the woods, not really the opponents fault, he's the last one who should pay for this.

Cheers

The problem isn't about the move through the wood, it's the alignment in the wood. In the situation, the chariot went from the initial point to the ennemy without even touching the wood but when aligned, it goes in the wood.

I'll check later though.

[Linda lobsta defenda]

Crawd: So? It can do so, so it has to. In other words: keep those chariots away from woods. Aligning to the enemy is part of the charge and like other factors when charging something you have to think about. I really dont see the problem.

[Dark Alliance]

I'll tell you what the problem is - sportsmanship and the spirit of the game. Unless I'm misunderstanding what Thanee was pointing out as his hypothetical situation.

Sometimes movement trays and other situations cause anomalies, that's when fudging comes in, along with just playing a game with friends.....

[Arcturus]

@Crawd
Aligning is movement, just like anything else. On top of all, it's free bonus movement, if you hit a wood with it, you've just failed to see how your chariot will align once you charge, which is hardly hard. You don't have to charge a unit inside woods, with a chariot, but you may, you'll just have to take the damage. Same thing with the alignment stuff, you can charge all you want, but if you touch the woods, you're getting hit.

@Dark Alliance
A chariot hitting a wood on alignment isn't an anomaly caused by anything else than the player not taking into account that his chariot might hit the woods when he charges. His chariot has a weakness, I see no reason to let him forgo that weakness. I can actually see this same situation happen with a High Elf dragon on the new base, hitting a wood, would make flying illegal, so it would stop the whole charge. Need to make a mental note of this, and see how I can use it with woodelves, having a wood that speeds about is always nice, might squeeze some tactical tricks outta this.

As for sports and spirits, that's a personal thing for every player, no one has the same idea about it, which makes talking about it a total moot point and waste of time. Btw, I always score well on sports, but that doesn't mean I give anything to my opponent, I just have the ability to be "not an asshole" during the game. A hard fought, by the rules game is more fun that "push your toys over there" kinda game. Someone can't wheel, and I gotta teach them, I don't see the problem there. Someone drives his chariot into woods, not my fault, really. I don't see why anyone should take the fall if I drive my own chariot into a wood. Makes no sense. Even in the terms of sportsmanship.

Cheers

[Ant]

As far as RAW goes, I have to agree with Linda and Arcturus. DA does have a point about sportsmanship though, but having said that, I have had this exact situation occur myself, on both sides of the table, and have always played that the chariot takes hits - it just seemed the most obvious thing to do at the time.

I can actually see this same situation happen with a High Elf dragon on the new base, hitting a wood, would make flying illegal, so it would stop the whole charge.

Now this however, is not only poor sportsmanship, but also illegal. A flyer CAN'T enter the wood, which means that the unit it charged MUST align to it after it has been hit.

[The golden arrow]

I would agree with Arctus.

How would you do this if the chariot got into a wood when it charged maximum amount of enemy models, but you can clip the unit and avoid the wood? I'd say that you still have to go into the woods, but I don't really know.

[Zeth]

I can actually see this same situation happen with a High Elf dragon on the new base, hitting a wood, would make flying illegal, so it would stop the whole charge.

While I agree with the chariot realigning into the wood and taking damage, I disagree with it preventing a dragon from being able to charge with flying, as he makes it to the opponent with flying without difficulty, however just the alignment puts him in the woods. You check to see if flying is effected by the woods when you charge, which it is not. Then you realign so you are.

[Arcturus]

@The Golden Arrow
I would assume that the situation is such that the chariot will end up in the wood even if it clips, in the situation given.

@Zeth&Ant
I'll have to check this out as well, just a theory. While I don't really agree that the target unit "MUST" align because the flyer can't othervise complete a legal charge. I dislike the idea of aligning my troops because someone else can't othervise complete a legal charge. Actually in cases like this, you could take a unit "out" of a wood by first charging it with flyers, and then move units you also "announced" to charge into the unit that just aligned itself out of a forest in order to fit a dragon that could only reach one guy who was out of the forest. Very intresting, I'll take a look into it, when I get to my armycase&BRB.

Cheers

[Zeth]

That is not quite what I meant.

The rules do not require my charger to be able to maximize legally according to how I charged to make a legal charge.

All that is required is my unit being able to follow the rules of charging, to make it legal. So if my opponent has a part of the unit outside of the woods, and my dragon can legally charge that part it can do so with flight. Now that my charge was successful I follow the rules to maximize my Dragon to the opponent. This may bring him into the woods but will not make the already successful charge illegal. However, now that he is in the woods, he can not use his flight to flee or pursue, forcing him to use his base MV of 6 and he will then flee/pursue at 2d6 rather then 3.

[Izirath]

I think some of the answers here are more or less ridicolus, of course he won't take damage as he didn't charge into the forest. He pummeled into his oponnent, big diff.

[Thanee]

Unless I'm misunderstanding what Thanee was pointing out as his hypothetical situation.

Not hypothetical, it actually happened in my last game.

I willingly accepted the damage from the wood, assuming that aligning into the wood would be enough to get damaged (though I can see how one could argue against that, as it's aligning and not really movement, and having the chariot only damaged when moving out of the wood again - but that's another question, albeit a good one ).

It just seemed a bit weird to have impact hits in the close combat phase from something that isn't there, anymore. OTOH, it would be unfair to not have any impact hits, as the impact clearly happened.

For the record, we resolved it exactly as Dalamar said above. Chariot was removed immediately. Impact hits happened during close combat (though we rolled them immediately, since no other units would have interfered there, anyways) and were counted normally towards CR.

Bye
Thanee

[Crawd]

Humm... I just read "Aligning the combatants" (P.21) and it's pretty vague about it.

If it's impratical to align a unit properly because of interposing terrain, or other models, or whatever, then it is acceptable to realign the charged unit as well (or instead) so that the battle lings remain neat

P.21 of the Rulebook

However, on the last page of the FAQ it says:

Therefore, the charging unit is aligned to its target, but in situations where it would be more convenient (eg, ig impassable terrain is in the way) it is entirely possible to move the charged unit to align it with the charger.

The FAQ

Since wood isn't an impassable terrain but a difficult terrain, you can't stop your wheel so yes it goes through the wood and take the impact hits.

When I said I would checked it up, I wanted to know if I was right or wrong