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Two Handweapons, but one is not just a Handweapon 
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When you have two Handweapons you gain one additional Attack. Ok.

What if you have two Handweapons, but one of them (or both) are different (i.e. one actual Handweapon and one weapon that counts as a Handweapon but has other special advantages)?

Can you make all Attacks with the better weapon, or do you have to do at least one Attack with each weapon and only the remainder with a weapon of your choice (and thus the more advantageous weapon)?

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Mon Jun 30, 2008 11:34 am
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easy enough, depends on the wording...
You'll probably have to be a bit more specifik for us to answer your question...

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Mon Jun 30, 2008 11:43 am
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Well, it's a bit hypothetical, but what I'm talking about is the Beastmaster's Scourge, which seems to count as a Handweapon (let's just assume it does). Another case would be Hellebronne, who has two magic weapons and most likely can use both, but she probably does have specific rules text to make this clear in her case.

What I'm wondering is, when there is no specific text that describes how this is handled with the weapon.

i.e. the Beastmaster's Scourge could have a text like this:

Beastmaster's Scourge
Handweapon. Armour Piercing.

Now you have a Beastmaster with the following:

Equipment
Handweapon, Beastmaster's Scourge.

Would the Beastmaster's extra Attack also have Armour Piercing then?

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Thanee


Mon Jun 30, 2008 11:48 am
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Thanee wrote:
Another case would be Hellebronne, who has two magic weapons and most likely can use both, but she probably does have specific rules text to make this clear in her case.

She always used to have a scpecial rule

Thanee wrote:
Beastmaster's Scourge
Handweapon. Armour Piercing.

Now you have a Beastmaster with the following:

Equipment
Handweapon, Beastmaster's Scourge.

Would the Beastmaster's extra Attack also have Armour Piercing then?

Bye
Thanee


Don't know if I've got this right but the scourge isn't an additional handweapon. Every model has a handweapon and doesn't lose it say if you upgrade to a halberd or get the sword of might, you just use one of the weapons.

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Mon Jun 30, 2008 11:55 am
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I'd say no, since the armour piercing is a rule of that specific weapon, and obviously not of the normal handweapon nor the Beastmaster (I think).


Mon Jun 30, 2008 11:57 am
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Nothing in the BRB that I can find one way or another, But logic would dictate that you have to make at least one mundane attack. Just my two cents...

EDIT: Actually it would. As the handweapon entry simply states that two handweapons adds one attack to your PROFILE. It doesn't say that you make an extra mundane attack. I know it seems a little RAW but then again so does making you roll one mundane attack...

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Mon Jun 30, 2008 12:00 pm
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ooooo thats a good question...


i guess not. reason behind it is an example of spears.

all spear armed warriors also have a hand weapon but you have to choose which to attack with. a spear counts as a single hand weapon but has the rank special rule. you only receive 1 attack not 2.

hope that helps Thanee

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Mon Jun 30, 2008 12:04 pm
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Duffman: a spear is NOT a Handweapon.

If you have more then one handweapon and one has a special rule then all your attacks will use that special rule. Simple as that. (So in your example you gain +1 attack and all attacks are AP).

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Mon Jun 30, 2008 12:13 pm
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sure about the spears count as handweapons?

Question is in the wrong place imho and should be in one of the rumor threads, as it has nothing to do with the rules atm, which was my reason for asking a specific case.

You are asking us to provide detailed interpretations from a book that non or maybe few of us posess.

When, and if the question is reasible, I'm sure it will be answered, but currently I believe that it can only cause confusion...

Adding ti the confusion it states nothing about being able to be used with an additional hand weapon, so it only helps for the shield bonus. Assuming that it could thered be no AP if the description states: "All attacks made by the ... count as AP" as you would make your attacks with add hws. If the item stated: "All CC attacks made by the bearer gains AP" it should be obvious. In short no Item (that I know of) has had such a short description, so it is unrealistick. The question should be saved for when we have something concrete to discuss.

If for what ever reason the book wont provide an answer hellebron will, I'm positive.

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Mon Jun 30, 2008 12:30 pm
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I'd say it'd work the way Linda said a good example would be Konrad von Carstein only difference would be one of his weapons is a magic one but same principles apply.

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Mon Jun 30, 2008 12:32 pm
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A 6th edition example is Malekith. He has 2 magical "hand weapons" which provide him an extra attack. I don't have the book in front of me but as I recall it states taht at least one atttack is made with each weapon and yopu can allocate the remaining attacks on his profile as you see fit. This is more of an example of how two special rules handweapons are used. Not really a hard and fast rule on how all two special handweapons are used or necessarily applicable to 7th ed.

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Mon Jun 30, 2008 1:27 pm
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IMO it's the same thing as in 40k. You have a hero running around with a energetic fist and a boltpistol so you just add one attack to his base attacks and then use all of them on the fist.

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Mon Jun 30, 2008 3:20 pm
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Not exactly,

2 handweapon/mundane = 2att
mundane weapon = no special rule
AP = special rule

So if beastmaster's scourge's not specified as a mundane weapon there's no additional attack.

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Mon Jun 30, 2008 4:15 pm
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Hiss wrote:
Not exactly,

2 handweapon/mundane = 2att
mundane weapon = no special rule
AP = special rule

So if beastmaster's scourge's not specified as a mundane weapon there's no additional attack.


Its a basic equipment option, not a magic weapon, as long as it says 'Hand Weapon' its fine, not 'Mundane Weapon'


Mon Jun 30, 2008 4:19 pm
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Hiss wrote:
Not exactly,

2 handweapon/mundane = 2att
mundane weapon = no special rule
AP = special rule

So if beastmaster's scourge's not specified as a mundane weapon there's no additional attack.

I disagree (and agree with Linda). It's just like "Counts as a halberd," or "Counts as a spear," on HE and WE weapons. What's the point of it saying this if it doesn't use the rules for them? Those get +1A, +1S when charging, and hand weapons give a shield bonus or +1A when 2 are equipped.

Now, yes, the wording will matter so we have to wait and see, but if it just says "Has armor piercing rule and counts as a hand weapon," then by all means make that extra AP attack. Pretty clear.

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Mon Jun 30, 2008 4:28 pm
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SilverHeimdall wrote:
Hiss wrote:
Not exactly,

2 handweapon/mundane = 2att
mundane weapon = no special rule
AP = special rule

So if beastmaster's scourge's not specified as a mundane weapon there's no additional attack.


Its a basic equipment option, not a magic weapon, as long as it says 'Hand Weapon' its fine, not 'Mundane Weapon'
Quote:
Its a basic equipment option, not a magic weapon, as long as it says 'Hand Weapon' its fine, not 'Mundane Weapon'

Well, call it what you want, the weapon has not to be covered by the rule(p56 RHBook), Armor piercing is covered by the rules.

It as to be a basic handweapon with no special rule.

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Mon Jun 30, 2008 4:38 pm
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Then why bother putting "Counts as a hand weapon" as that means nothing. Not even that it's one-handed as weapons are unless stated to be two-handed.

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Mon Jun 30, 2008 4:47 pm
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Quote:
Then why bother putting "Counts as a hand weapon" as that means nothing. Not even that it's one-handed as weapons are unless stated to be two-handed.


Because, with that, you can explain they can have 2 attack, but 3 like some people was thinking about.

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Mon Jun 30, 2008 4:52 pm
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Hiss wrote:
Quote:
Then why bother putting "Counts as a hand weapon" as that means nothing. Not even that it's one-handed as weapons are unless stated to be two-handed.


Because, with that, you can explain they can have 2 attack, but 3 like some people was thinking about.
I said 3, you said 2. How does putting CaHW mean 2??

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Mon Jun 30, 2008 5:08 pm
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Maybe it would be a good idea to wait until we've seen te rules before we start discussing the rules? For all we know, it could say "counts as wheelchair". Wait until you've seen the rules and then discus it, if it is still not clear. This is just pointless.


Mon Jun 30, 2008 6:18 pm
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If it is referred to as a hand weapon, you can use it as an additional hand weapon and get the extra attack. Read the rules for two hand weapons and there's nothing there about needing to be specified as additional, or something like that. Hand Weapon and Armour Piercing are both special rules, and a model using a hand weapon with armour piercing along with another hand weapon would get +1 attack and armour piercing.

There's no restriction on needing to be just a hand weapon, or even a mundane hand weapon. There's a bretonnian magic weapon that can be used as a hand weapon or great weapon. If you have him on foot, he could use the hand weapon with a shield and get the extra armour save. (In that specific case though, the magic weapon restrictions prevent him from using another weapon so he can't use it with another hand weapon).

Hand weapon can be an attribute of any weapon. If it has it, it follows the rules.


Mon Jun 30, 2008 8:39 pm
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Wouldn't it be awesome if it did count as a wheelchair....

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Mon Jun 30, 2008 8:50 pm
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Xerasi wrote:
Question is in the wrong place imho and should be in one of the rumor threads, as it has nothing to do with the rules atm, which was my reason for asking a specific case.


It's a bit hypothetical, granted, but it's still a rules question which can be answered with the knowledge we have to this day. ;)

Thanks for the answers! :)

Bye
Thanee


Mon Jun 30, 2008 8:52 pm
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