Shooting at salamanders?!?

Have a question about the Warhammer rules? Ask them here!

Moderator: The Dread Knights

Locked
User avatar
Rugi
Noble
Posts: 459
Joined: Tue Nov 14, 2006 2:33 pm
Location: probably still burried under snow after a failed backflip attempt

Shooting at salamanders?!?

Post by Rugi »

Hello! Some guys at our club saw this stupid rule somewhere on the net which says you first randomise what you are going to shoot at and THEN roll to hit. So they claim that in case of a RBT you first roll randomise all of your 6 dices and only then roll to hit (so all fives and sixes get -1 to hit because of skink skirmishers).
Please provide me with some solid proof so we can finally start playing correctly because if we don´t there is no obstacle why I shouldn`t do the same thing with my hydra but I don´t want to play like that.

Cheers,

Rugi
User avatar
Furiouscado
Malekith's Personal Guard
Posts: 803
Joined: Sun Oct 29, 2006 11:16 pm
Location: Penn State

Post by Furiouscado »

Well first you don't need proof because they won't be able to find their interpretation anywhere in the BRB. The unit is in skrimish formation but because it has models that are larger than "man-sized" the entire unit doesn't benefit from the -1 modifier.

It's like shooting at a war-machine. You don't randomize who you hit, then get the -1 for the crew because they're not in formation.

You always roll to hit first, then if randomization is needed, it is done subsequently. It never comes into question with the -1 because in the case of large targets inside a unit (slann) you can pick out the large target and get the +1 modifier.

As with the hydra, if it's a large target then the shooter gets the +1 to hit before any randomization would occur.

(EDIT) The most solid proof I can offer is in the rulebook:

pg 67: " Enemies shooting against a unit of MAN-SIZED skirmishers suffer a -1 to hit penalty in the same way as if they were shooting at a single man-sized model."

If you're shooting a unit of salamanders, you're NOT shooting at a unit of man-sized models, hence the rule does not take effect.
User avatar
One-s
Beastmaster
Posts: 364
Joined: Thu Apr 19, 2007 7:54 pm
Location: Genk - Belgium

Post by One-s »

furiouscado wrote:pg 67: " Enemies shooting against a unit of MAN-SIZED skirmishers suffer a -1 to hit penalty in the same way as if they were shooting at a single man-sized model."

If you're shooting a unit of salamanders, you're NOT shooting at a unit of man-sized models, hence the rule does not take effect.


That's how it is.

The salamanders aren't unit strength 1 so there's no -1 penalty for shooting at the unit.
Role to hit as normal (without the -1 penalty), then randomize to see if you hit handlers or salamanders.
User avatar
Rugi
Noble
Posts: 459
Joined: Tue Nov 14, 2006 2:33 pm
Location: probably still burried under snow after a failed backflip attempt

Post by Rugi »

Well I´m trying to tell them that but they just won´t believe!
It's like shooting at a war-machine. You don't randomize who you hit, then get the -1 for the crew because they're not in formation.

That is a very good example which I couldn´t recall. Thanx!
User avatar
Furiouscado
Malekith's Personal Guard
Posts: 803
Joined: Sun Oct 29, 2006 11:16 pm
Location: Penn State

Post by Furiouscado »

well if they don't believe the direct quote from the book then they're just being stubborn jerks.. you can't argue the rulebook when it's pretty darn clear.
Getwisteerd
Highborn
Posts: 614
Joined: Mon Jun 26, 2006 1:30 pm
Location: The duke's forest (yes that's the name of the town I live in)

Post by Getwisteerd »

Page 60, shooting at monstrous mounts says:
"once you have established how many hits have been scored, you must apportion them between the rider and the monster"

Thus, randomising is done after you roll to hit

shooting at warmachines (page 85) says something similar about shooting at warmachines, so it should be clear that in every situation randomisation comes after rolling to hit.

If they still don't listen, you can always show them why it is called the warhammer rulebook (hint, it has something to do with great weight and a hard cover ;) )
Locked