Assassins are Hidden... from enemy player's eyes as well?

[Silverheimdall]

Just wondering.

Fanatics are Hidden in units and usually people will put them on the tray, some will not, no rule mentions having to tell your opponent you have them in your army list.

How does it work for Assassins? Do I put em in my tray and that way my opponent knows I have one assassin in two of my three possible units that can include one?

So how do I play this? Hide em in my pocket until they are revealed because nothing says to even mention hidden stuff... o: And at tournaments.. ?

[Mmckeddie]

As long as they are on your army list you can do whatever you want.
What a friend and I like to do is always put an assassin model at the back of the table (or whatever) in order to unnerve an opponent whether or not there is an assassin in the list.

[Mordru]

In a closed list tourny I cannot conceive of a valid reason forces you to disclose the fact that you have an assassin in your list. As a practical matter it is way too much trouble to try to hide them anywhere so I would just keep them in the display base as you move from table to table.

You could keep them with your extra characters (you know the ones you need when your pegasus, manticore, etc.. get shot from under your mounted heros) on your disply base as you move from table to table.

[Sulla]

So how do I play this? Hide em in my pocket until they are revealed because nothing says to even mention hidden stuff... o: And at tournaments.. ?

Leave 'em in your army case (I would do this with fanatics too). They are secrets. Unless they are somehow revealed by the enemy, you keep them as a surprise.

Of course, if you want to let your opponent catch a glimpe of a couple of assassins in your case to keep them wondering if you have some and where they might be, that's your business (and a fun psychological game within the game). But at the end of the day, assassins are secret. That's what you pay big points for.

[Bad beast]

i personally love the idea of pulling out extra assassins and setting them out, (i do this with fanatics as well)

[Ehakir]

Or place as many assasins at the back at the table as you have infantery units in play in which they can hide; the enemy will think you have an assasin in every unit. You should see his face if he comes to know you don't have a single assasin

[Asikari]

Keep him hidden, have him on the table every game, even if you don't have an assassin in the list, it's up to you if it's a closed list.

[Zeth]

I'd leave them in your case, keep them a secret, both in terms of allowing your opponent to know if you have an assassin and in terms of pretending to have more.

I've seen many people lose sportsmanship for putting out more fanatics or assassins then they are actually fielding, and justly so.

[Silverheimdall]

Well I was told I should be putting them on my tray ( no display case yet to hide them in ) even if there are no rules supporting such a move.

[Zarast38]

...but nothing prevent you to add extra stuff on your tray too...

IMHO, things such as fanatics, miners and assassins should be hinted to be a possibility, even if there is none. It is only for your opponent to think about it, and be aware of the stats (pre-items) before the game begin.

[Zeth]

By whom?
Was it your TO? I guess you would have to play by those rules if it was.
Seems a very obscure ruling that your hidden assassin is not actually hidden.

Your TO requires fanatics to be on the tray as well?

It defeats half the point of both fanatics and assassins if they are forced to be shown before revealed, I wouldn't take those units if going to a tournament that required them. You should also talk with your TO and try to explain the case.

[Silverheimdall]

By whom?
Was it your TO? I guess you would have to play by those rules if it was.
Seems a very obscure ruling that your hidden assassin is not actually hidden.

Your TO requires fanatics to be on the tray as well?

It defeats half the point of both fanatics and assassins if they are forced to be shown before revealed, I wouldn't take those units if going to a tournament that required them. You should also talk with your TO and try to explain the case.

Well since you replied just after him, I guess you already know what the answer was (:

[Zeth]

...but nothing prevent you to add extra stuff on your tray too...

Besides that it is sneaky and underhanded. The exact opposite of the whole point of sportsmanship.

IMHO, things such as fanatics, miners and assassins should be hinted to be a possibility, even if there is none. It is only for your opponent to think about it, and be aware of the stats (pre-items) before the game begin.

So magic items and banners are not hidden either? You just play with completely open lists?

If so, having the assassin on the tray is fair. Otherwise it is a rather large nerf to a already fairly weak choice.

Well since you replied just after him, I guess you already know what the answer was (:

Damn simultaneous posting!

[Zarast38]

well this point is up to personnal interpretation and views. We will not be able to have a full prof answers, just opinions. As long as we can look through the other POV we will be able to go on in this discution, but in no way we will have a fully rule proff answers.

That said, magical items (may it be daemon gift, virtue and so on) and hidden units are 2 different things. In no way you should tell your opponent what magical item you have and where. Of course a magical weapon saying "great weapon" should be anounced to your opponent as "yeah, this guy carry a great weapon" no more, no less.

But then for units (or character or those kind of things) I think you should tell your opponent they are a possibility in your list, but not the exact number (it may be 0 or 700). I dont know why I feel it that way toward units and not magic item, but I believe you should let your opponent know how they work before the game begins.

It is something like ambushing units in a beastmen army...Are they hidden stuff ?

[Zeth]

But then for units (or character or those kind of things) I think you should tell your opponent they are a possibility in your list, but not the exact number (it may be 0 or 700). I dont know why I feel it that way toward units and not magic item, but I believe you should let your opponent know how they work before the game begins.

I don't agree but thats how this works. I feel that requiring hidden things to be shown to my opponent before the game to be seems to be counter to the whole idea of them being hidden.

Then the idea of intentionally being underhanded by implying you have 20 assassins when you have none to gain an advantage is the very definition of unsportsmanlike. I'm not passing judgement on wether you should be allowed to be unsportsmanlike there are arguments for both sides. I'm just stating that it is.

If my opponent had questions on how assassins work I would gladly explain and allow them to read the rules for themselves. But I believe that it is not intended and largely weakens hidden things to have them on the board before they are revealed.

DE fielding assassins and Night Goblins can have fanatics is not something I should be required to tell my opponent, it is a learning curve for the game and experienced players should be well aware of the potential for such hidden things already.

Anyway, it seems you just want people to be aware the units exist in the army. So why not just have players fielding armies with hidden units state before games that they potentially have them and explain what they do before deployment starts, rather then require them to be put on bases?

It is something like ambushing units in a beastmen army...Are they hidden stuff ?

Yes, I don't expect my opponent to reveal how many ambushing units they have before they enter the board, as that is how the rule works.

[Zarast38]

Anyway, it seems you just want people to be aware the units exist in the army. So why not just have players fielding armies with hidden units state before games that they potentially have them and explain what they do before deployment starts, rather then require them to be put on bases?

thats exactly what I want! But from experience I know it is best to have a more concise ruling on those kind of things. Vets will get you nice and convenient games, while younblood will ruin the day.

[Zeth]

Any tournaments you run have rulings a clarifications that players are supposed to read right?

Why not include the rules for all of the hidden units in those pages. This provides all of that information for any players, and new players are likely to read through any rules or clarifications carefully.

[Kinslayer]

I would keep the assassins hidden from sight, and in a game where i wasnt using any assassins i would leave one on display to make the enemy scared. If, at the end of the game, they say "you forgot your assassin was hidden" i would say "nope, he was just there to scare ya!"