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What weapon used after mount dies?
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Author:  Dggrj [ Tue Aug 12, 2008 5:58 am ]
Post subject:  What weapon used after mount dies?

Here's the situation: My manticore lord charges a unit of Bretonnian knights wielding Deathpiercer, and fluffs his attacks. Well, they all hit, but then the manticore decided not to wound but 1x, my lord got no KB, and all the attacks except 1 were saved by Bret's obnoxious armor/ward save combo. Oh, I was in a challenge, so I killed the champion, but that was it, I actually lost combat.

Now in his turn, my friend charges my apparently tame-little-kittycore with his general (alone, fled from the unit before getting charged) who has the autohit lance (making my Ring of Darkness a waste). My manticore had taken 1 wound before this from peasant bowmen, so he put all of his lords hits on the manticore and killed it :(.

Now, before the real question, please don't bring logic into this, as logically a lance is probably a one-hit thing that you can't use for a subsequent charge (like 40k lances), yet we use them charge after charge, and in subsequent rounds and blah blah blah...

So, the question: I'm locked in combat, I can't change my weapon because:
A) it's magic, and I won't put down the shiny
B) you can't change mid-CC

But, a lance is "mounted only" and my mount was just killed.

Does my hero suddenly and rule-bendingly let go of the shiny lance? Immediately? At the end of that round of CC?

We couldn't decide, diced off on it, ended against my favor (which in this case I wasn't upset about, we just really weren't sure), and then I rolled a 6,1,1 to wound.. It was tragic - my lord didn't KB, lost, and ran like a little high elf, to be trodden beneath so many Bretonnian horse hooves.

Side note - I hate their ward save.. so much.

Author:  Kefka [ Tue Aug 12, 2008 7:35 am ]
Post subject: 

did you have another weapon other than the lance? because if not I'm pretty sure it counts as a single close combat weapon after the first round, mount or not.

Author:  Dggrj [ Tue Aug 12, 2008 8:27 am ]
Post subject: 

All models come with hand weapons, of course :D
But as it's written the Deathpiercer gets KB subsequent rounds of combat. Will probably be FAQ'ed, but we weren't worried about that part of it, as This does apply to some other armies' weapons, too.

Author:  Entreri [ Tue Aug 12, 2008 8:45 am ]
Post subject: 

Normally you have to use your lance in subsequent rounds, at least when mounted.
Damn good question though when you lose your mount!

Like you can't find it anywhere.... but thinking RAW, when you fight with the weapon you started with, you can't change it, but when you charge a new enemy for example, after losing your mount, I doubt you'll have your lance with you, as you have to be mounted!

So when fighting that brett general you still had use of your lance.

At least you'll get your extra armour save bonus when using your hand weapon the next rounds (if you have a shield of course ;)).

That's how I see it, hope that helped cheers.

Author:  Lethalis [ Tue Aug 12, 2008 10:52 am ]
Post subject: 

The way I see it you lose the +2 Strength bonus when you charge on foot. You still fight with the lance though and thus should have retained the killing blow rule.

Author:  Rabidnid [ Tue Aug 12, 2008 11:43 am ]
Post subject: 

Well, lances are mounted only weapons, so once you lose your mount you need to revert to your hand weapon, and you do lose the benifits of both the magic weapon and killing blow when on foot.

Author:  Agrem [ Tue Aug 12, 2008 11:58 am ]
Post subject: 

Because it is a magical weapon you still benefit from it's original bonuses when on foot. Because you cannot choose to wield mundane weapons with magical ones.

Author:  Sedro [ Tue Aug 12, 2008 12:15 pm ]
Post subject: 

Since you can't strike with a lance if you not have a mount and can't shift your weapon since your lance is magical you will have no attacks :cry: :?

Author:  Lethalis [ Tue Aug 12, 2008 12:24 pm ]
Post subject: 

Where does it say you cannot attack at all when your character has a lance but is on foot? Because if the answer is 'nowhere' I am to assume that the bonus which a lance grants is the only thing you need to be mounted for.

Author:  Steve tu [ Tue Aug 12, 2008 12:27 pm ]
Post subject: 

Lethalis has it correct I think.

The lance then counts as a magical hand weapon so you retain your KB.

You HAVE to use a magical weapon if you have one. The mounted only means you cant buy it if your character is on foot at the start of the battle.

Author:  Sedro [ Tue Aug 12, 2008 12:28 pm ]
Post subject: 

Guess we found the answer here

Author:  Linda lobsta defenda [ Tue Aug 12, 2008 3:37 pm ]
Post subject: 

Lethalis wrote:
Where does it say you cannot attack at all when your character has a lance but is on foot? Because if the answer is 'nowhere' I am to assume that the bonus which a lance grants is the only thing you need to be mounted for.


Which sadly is an assumption, you cant use the lance if you are not mounted, and if it is magical you must use it. It has been submitted to GW for their FAQ if they ever answer it.

Author:  Calisson [ Tue Aug 12, 2008 4:23 pm ]
Post subject: 

The same situation can happen in the same way with a character on a chariot (BRB p.56, the two "lances for mounted troops" entries).
What will the Character do with his magic lance if the chariot is destroyed?

Author:  Thanee [ Tue Aug 12, 2008 4:25 pm ]
Post subject: 

I think the only sensible ruling here would be to switch to the handweapon.

Bye
Thaene

Author:  Lethalis [ Tue Aug 12, 2008 5:18 pm ]
Post subject: 

Except that it says under 'Magic Items' -> 'Magic weapons' that, when in possession of a magic close combat weapon you cannot use any other close combat weapons.

Linda Lobsta Defenda wrote:
you cant use the lance if you are not mounted
Call me pedantic but... says where? The way it comes across to me is that you'll only get the bonus of a mounted only weapon if you're mounted. Otherwise, you'll have to do without the bonus but still carry the weapon with you.

Author:  Linda lobsta defenda [ Tue Aug 12, 2008 5:21 pm ]
Post subject: 

Lethy: page 56 when it stipulates that you must be mounted. Clearly sais mounted only, so then you cant use it when you are on foot since you are not mounted.

Author:  Thanee [ Tue Aug 12, 2008 5:58 pm ]
Post subject: 

Lethalis wrote:
Except that it says under 'Magic Items' -> 'Magic weapons' that, when in possession of a magic close combat weapon you cannot use any other close combat weapons.


Yes it does. And it says that you cannot switch weapons in the midst of a close combat.

Still, I think that would be the way to go.

And hence why I called it "sensible ruling", it's certainly not RAW. RAW fails in this case. ;)

Bye
Thanee

Author:  Rabidnid [ Fri Aug 15, 2008 2:01 am ]
Post subject: 

Lethalis wrote:
Except that it says under 'Magic Items' -> 'Magic weapons' that, when in possession of a magic close combat weapon you cannot use any other close combat weapons.


Yep, and the rules also expressly say you cannot use a lance except when your mounted. If you can't use the lance then you must fight using your default profile, which is your handweapon.

Basically all of the special rules contradict each other and the default profile is all that is left.

Author:  Lethalis [ Fri Aug 15, 2008 10:28 am ]
Post subject: 

The way I've read it you only get the +2 Strength bonus when you're mounted using a lance. Like I said, you can call me pedantic but the only rules I see which expressively say something on the subject are the ones dealing with whether you can change (magical) weapons during combat. I don't see rules saying you drop the lance or whatever.

Author:  Ant [ Wed Aug 20, 2008 6:34 am ]
Post subject: 

This actually came up in a UKGT heat I was refereeing last year. As has already been discussed the rules are very woolly around the issue. However, after a fairly long discussion we decided that you have to still use the lance, losing the +2S but nothing else. I think this ruling went into the refs notes so an FAQ is likely to go with this ruling IMO. But going by RAW at the moment it could still go either way.

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