Pha's Protection and cannons

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Ilderoth
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Pha's Protection and cannons

Post by Ilderoth »

Pha's Protection is an augment spell that, among other things, forces your opponent to roll a 4+ for any warmachine targeting a unit on which the spell is cast. If the roll is not a 4+ then the shot is lost. Now, my question is what happens in the case of a warmachine that does not target a unit, such as a cannon for instance? Up til now I played it in such a way that the player using the cannon, although he does not have to aim his cannon at a specific unit, still has a unit in mind when aiming the cannon shot and so still has to roll a 4+. But is this correct?
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Calisson
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Re: Pha's Protection and cannons

Post by Calisson »

The rulebook has a clear wording. It is not "targeting a unit", it is "All attacks against the target unit", i.e. it is the spell which targets the unit, not the attack.
For warmachines, even if the unit was not intentionally targeted, if it touches the augmented unit, the spell is lost.
Example, a mortar with large template deviates so far that the template ends up partially on the unit protected by Pha. Then the whole mortar shot is wasted, even on other units which would happen to be hit by same template.
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Ilderoth
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Re: Pha's Protection and cannons

Post by Ilderoth »

Now I'm getting a bit confused :roll:

The spell states that "Shooting attacks that do not use Ballistic Skill must roll a 4+ on a D6 before firing, or the shot(s) is lost." You're saying that a mortar shot accidentally scattering away from a unit that is not augmented by Pha to a unit that is augmented by Pha is wasted if it does not roll a 4+. So, just to get things straight:
- In the case of a mortar or stone thrower, etc. your opponent determines where the shot is supposed to land, then rolls a D6 before actually firing - he does so even when he does not aim at an augmented unit - then fires and depending on where the shot lands the D6 result might come in effect. Is this the correct sequence?
- In the case of a cannon: your opponent determines where the shot is supposed to land, then rolls a D6 before actually firing - he does so even when he does not aim at an augmented unit (but 2" before that unit for instance) - then fires and depending on who gets hit the D6 result might come in effect. Right?
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Thraundil
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Re: Pha's Protection and cannons

Post by Thraundil »

To my knowledge, if a cannon places a shot such that the cannonball has even the sligthest chance of hitting a unit under Phas protection (even if it means rolling a double 10), you must roll a d6 first. Its any shooting attack, even if a cannon has no target - if the cannonball can bounce into the unit, you must check to see if it even can.
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Re: Pha's Protection and cannons

Post by Haagrum »

I think a common-sense resolution would be as follows:

Does the attack (a) not roll to hit, and (b) hit any models in the unit(s) affected by Pha's Protection? If the answer to both (a) and (b) are "Yes", then roll 1d6: on a roll of 1-3, the attack does no damage to anyone.

While this may not be strict RAW, it's the spell's intended effect, and resolves any weapon-specific strangeness. Strictly speaking, one could claim (as Ilderoth alludes to) that if a shot is fired, and scatters or bounces onto a protected unit but does not target it as such, Pha's Protection will not work as the shot has already been fired before you roll Scatter or Artillery dice. To that, I would respond by suggesting that the shot isn't fired for game purposes until you know where it will land - which is to say, at the point in time that you know who will be struck by the attack - and that such an interpretation would frustrate the very purpose of the spell, which is an absurd result and clearly not one which could have been intended.

EDIT: Good spot, Thraundil. :) Also, good spot Ilderoth on the inconsistency between the FAQ and BRB - on that point, at least, I'd go with the spell text in the BRB regarding the dice roll required to make the shot successfully.
Last edited by Haagrum on Fri Feb 28, 2014 12:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Pha's Protection and cannons

Post by Thraundil »

Just found the latest FAQ on Pha's.

Q: If a unit is augment ed by Pha’s Protection how does this
int eract wit h Sh ooting attack s that do not specifically target a unit ?
For example a cannon or stone thrower shot? (Reference)
A: Fire the shot as normal. If the template ends u p over any
models in a unit that have been au gmented by Pha’s
Protection roll a D6. On a 4+ the entire shot is discounted.
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Ilderoth
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Re: Pha's Protection and cannons

Post by Ilderoth »

Well, there you have it. Nice catch Thraundil! It seems common sense prevailed for once in that FAQ !eek!
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Re: Pha's Protection and cannons

Post by Ilderoth »

Note that this makes the spell stronger than I originally anticipated. If a stone thrower hits an augmented and a non-augmented unit and fails to roll a 4+ then neither unit gets hit (not just the one augmented) - the entire shot is discounted after all. The same goes for a cannon. 8)

P.S. note that the FAQ actually does contain a screw up... It says on a 4+ the entire shot is discounted, whereas the WFB tells us that the shot is succesful on a 4+ !mad!
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Re: Pha's Protection and cannons

Post by Daeron »

Hihihihi.. Well.. Have your opponent roll a dice. If he rolls under 4, show him the book and say "It doesn't fire". If he rolls over 4, show him the FAQ and say "it doesn't fire". See how long it takes for him to figure it out.
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Re: Pha's Protection and cannons

Post by Thraundil »

Ilderoth wrote:P.S. note that the FAQ actually does contain a screw up... It says on a 4+ the entire shot is discounted, whereas the WFB tells us that the shot is succesful on a 4+ !mad!


DERP! Hadnt seen that at all, good catch too xD
If you have Pha's, just notify your opponent you play it as it says in the BRB but with the amendment for cannons, and say that 4+ is needed for a successful shot. Then there can be no confusion.
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