black dragonegg breath weapon

[Pablo]

Is the black dragon egg breath weapon magical? I know the attacks aren't but. The breath should be.
Cheers

[Forumite]

I don´t think so. The attack doesn´t come directly from the magical item, what the magical item does is give the character a new ability which isn´t magical in itself. Like the Cloak of Twilight the egg gives you new special rules, but the item itself doesn´t cause the damage.

[Pablo]

But the item does causse the damage. The cot gives two special rules that amp damage, but your attacks are doing the actual damage where as here the item gives you a breath weapon that does damage on it's own.

[Pablo]

Bump for a clear answer please

[Thraundil]

A breath weapon is not magical unless specified. In fact, I believe there are no breath weapons that are magical.

[Searinox Nagharha]

well wouldn't a Breath Weapon that was created by a spell be magical? (Pestilent Breath from the Skaven lore of Plague comes to mind, tho i think thats the only one aswell )

[Thraundil]

well wouldn't a Breath Weapon that was created by a spell be magical? (Pestilent Breath from the Skaven lore of Plague comes to mind, tho i think thats the only one aswell )

Ah, good point. I am unfamiliar with the lores of magic, spells are of course always magic

[Pablo]

Why wouldn't a breath weapon from a magic item be magical? It's unlike I think any other breath weapon bc the source isn't a 'natural' breath weapon, but from a magic item who's damaging effects are magical. Thanks!

[Thraundil]

DE armybook p 62: "For the rest of that turn bla bla, and a strength 2 breath weapon against which no armour saves can be taken".

BRB page 67, covering Breath Weapons: nowhere does it state that breath weapons are magical attacks.

Thus, according to the BRB, a there is no evidence that a breath weapon is magical. Our army book rule does not provide any information overriding this, as a result, a breath weapon bestowed by a magical item is not by itself a magical ability. Also, a black dragon eggs damaging effect is not magical, and if you're gonna argue "natural" vs "supernatural" in warhammer terms... At what point does a dragon breathing noxious fumes become perfectly natural?

[Dalamar]

All damage done by magic items is magical.

BRB FAQ somewhere in there.

[Amboadine]

Details from the FAQ regarding Dalamars post;

Q. 'What are 'magical attacks?'
A. 'All attacks made by spells and magic items are considered to be magical attacks, as are all attacks that are specifically noted as being magical attacks. Shots fired from magical items are considered to be magical attacks, unless their description specifically states otherwise. Hits inflicted by rolls on the Miscast table are treated as magical attacks'

Also from the BRB FAQ

Q. 'Do Breath weapon hits benefit from any other special rules, equipment or magic items of the model that inflicts the hits?'
A. 'No'

[Thraundil]

I do not contest that damage done by magical items are magical damage. I however contest whether the breath weapon damage is done by a magical item. I'd say it is not.

1. The carrier eats the magical egg.
2. This bestows him a S boost, T boost, and a breath weapon.
3. The model uses the breath weapon. This breath weapon, a property of the model in question, is not magical because it is a property of that specific model, no longer associated with the magical item from which it originally came.

The attack is made by the model. Not the item. Otherwise, cloak of twilight attacks might as well be magical, but they are not since the cloak bestows a set of special rules onto the bearer, who makes the attacks.

[Amboadine]

Thraundil, I think your argument falls nicely into the second FAQ question and answer about breath weapons = No

[Thraundil]

Yeah. It just seemed as if Dalamar wanted to argue that the breath weapon attacks are magical, and so I presented my reasoning to me saying they are not

[Dalamar]

And that's the only good argument that can be used against it as a more fluffy explanation.

Use whichever one works for you. I've never even considered using the egg

[Thraundil]

And that's the only good argument that can be used against it as a more fluffy explanation.

Use whichever one works for you. I've never even considered using the egg

In a big game, with room for 2 combat lords, I'd probably take it on a mounted lord designed to blow up anything which relies on armor. Lance, black dragon egg, and some ward save. Either pop the egg right away, or pop if you fail to kill during first turn of combat. S8 means anything shy of 1+ will get no save, and 1+ is reduced to 6+. And then a wound on average from the egg too. He stands a fair chance to just flat out break a MC unit on the charge. But other than that, definitely not a strong item...

[Pablo]

I use mine in a horde of witches with the cauldron with manbane to kill armor and it works pretty amazingly. Cheap too.