Soul Stealer and Spiteful Conjuration

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Air Pie
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Soul Stealer and Spiteful Conjuration

Post by Air Pie »

How does Soul Stealer work with Spiteful Conjuration? Is it on the initial placement of the template or where it lands after scatter or does it even effect it at all?

I had a game today where i used Soul Stealer, i placed the template and it scatters missing my initial target. There was a bit of a disagreement as Spiteful Conjuration states "the spells target suffers 2d6 str1 hits" although it missed i argued that, which it states, my "target" was where i initially placed the template. My opponent argued that it was where the template scattered to. So who is right or are we both wrong?

There was also a point of if when "placing" the template does that even count as targeting? I again argued that you would "place" a lets say "target template" or "place" the template where you would want to "target".

Thanks.

(we are both very new to the hobby starting fantasy about 4 months ago)
Vulcan
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Re: Soul Stealer and Spiteful Conjuration

Post by Vulcan »

Templates target areas or locations, not units.
Air Pie
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Re: Soul Stealer and Spiteful Conjuration

Post by Air Pie »

Vulcan wrote:Templates target areas or locations, not units.


The wording for Spiteful Conjuration says target, not target unit or unit hit, as i initially placed the template to hit 2 units that was my "target" area or "target" location.
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Haagrum
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Re: Soul Stealer and Spiteful Conjuration

Post by Haagrum »

In short, I'd agree with Air Pie's interpretation.

Magical vortex spells have no target, but direct damage spells that use a template will have a target. Direct damage spells target enemy units, even if they use a template (see p31 of the BRB). A template can scatter onto friendly troops, or enemy units in close combat - it's just that the template can't be positioned to hit them when the spell is initially cast.

There's no 100% clear explanation provided in relation to how to determine the "target" of a template spell that has scattered. In 99% of cases, it is irrelevant. However, given that you have to pick an initial point for the spell's effect, I'd say it's fair to say that units which are under the template before the scatter dice are rolled could be considered its targets.

If Spiteful Conjuration or Soul Stealer were likely to do much damage, people could call that an interpretation favouring the Dark Elf player. However, since neither are exactly game-breakers, and you'd have to deliberately leave space under the template that was reducing the number of hits in order to claim the second lot of Spiteful Conjuration hits, I don't see that it's unreasonable.
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Dyvim tvar
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Re: Soul Stealer and Spiteful Conjuration

Post by Dyvim tvar »

Haagrum wrote:Direct damage spells target enemy units, even if they use a template (see p31 of the BRB).


This is the important point. You need to declare a target for the spell before casting. In fact, the placement of the template technically doesn't even happen until the spell is successfully cast, while nomination of the target happens before the dice are rolled. As a result, even if the template would end up touching more than 1 unit, the spell only has 1 target that is declared before casting.

Since Spiteful Conjuration only affects the target of the spell, the plain language reading is that the nominated unit is still the "target" and will sustain the effect of Spiteful Conjuration even if the template is placed to hit an additional unit or units, and even if the template scatters and doesn't touch the target at all.
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Air Pie
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Re: Soul Stealer and Spiteful Conjuration

Post by Air Pie »

Thanks for the replies could anyone else share their opinion even if it is the same. :D
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Searinox Nagharha
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Re: Soul Stealer and Spiteful Conjuration

Post by Searinox Nagharha »

personally i have been playing it that whoever gets 'hit' by the template suffers the effects of Spiteful Conjuration aswell.
so if it would veer of of target and hits another one SC would go on that target, if it would end up hitting 2 units both would be affected.
if it doesnt hit anything at all then its lost.
(tho it doesnt have to Wound)
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