Hellcannon and Ironcurse Icon

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toots
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Hellcannon and Ironcurse Icon

Post by toots »

Does it work? The 6++ I mean. Technically classed as a monster, but it fires "following the rules for mortar" or something like that. It's clearly a damn war machine though!!

Little help here guys?!



J
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Re: Hellcannon and Ironcurse Icon

Post by Thraundil »

Well. I actually dont know the official ruling on this. I'd always claim that the 6++ works on the hell cannon, even if it is a monster... because otherwise, where is the line drawn? An ironblaster is technically a chariot. No ward save then? How about versus the scourgerunner chariot?

The ruling as written is pretty clear in my own mind though.

"The character (and any unit he is with) gain a 6+ ward save against war machine weapons."

A hellblaster fires like a stone thrower. So its a war machine weapon --> ironcurse gives the ward save.

I believe this is also the ruling in the ETC - which, as someone will point out soon (Dalamar!) ETC is not warhammer, but several of their rulings makes a lot of sense.
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Red...
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Re: Hellcannon and Ironcurse Icon

Post by Red... »

I'd argue the other way, sadly. "War machine" exists as a unit type. I don't have the WoC book to check, but if the hell cannon is missing the "War machine" characteristic in its entry, then RAW it is not a war machine. It is instead a monster. Now, you could play it RAI along Thraundil's suggestion, but unless there's a relevant FAQ around, I don't think it is RAW correct, no matter how idiosyncratic the notion that a monster spouting a cannon that fires like a warmachine can't generate a ward save from the ironcurse icon, but a cannon can.
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Re: Hellcannon and Ironcurse Icon

Post by Watchmaster »

I don't know if precedence has anything to do with proper rules interpretation, but the Ogre chariot cannon, Scraplauncher, and mammoth creature that throws a ball of ice "like a stone thrower" -none of which are actually war machines- all are FAQ'd to specifically allow the ironcurse save.

So there's that to muddy the waters.
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Re: Hellcannon and Ironcurse Icon

Post by Red... »

Indeed, FAQs always win - check to see if there is a FAQ for the Hellcannon on this front.

If there isn't, then the existence of other FAQs actually confirms that the Hellcannon shots don't generate the ward save, as GW is saying that FAQs are needed for this rule to apply, and so the absence of such an entry indicates that it does not apply in this case.
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Re: Hellcannon and Ironcurse Icon

Post by Dyvim tvar »

You are confusing the concepts of FAQ and errata ...
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Re: Hellcannon and Ironcurse Icon

Post by Taijushue »

isnt there a bow that fires like a bolt thrower? would this get a ward save?
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Re: Hellcannon and Ironcurse Icon

Post by MexicanNinja »

wroot wrote:Does it work? The 6++ I mean. Technically classed as a monster, but it fires "following the rules for mortar" or something like that. It's clearly a damn war machine though!!

Little help here guys?!



J


I haven't read the rules for a quick minute; however, I'm pretty sure the rules for the hellcannon states that it fires as a war machine. You should/would get your 6++ from the ironcurse icon. If you are being shot at by anything with the rule "fires/shoots as a war machine", you get the 6++ from iron curse icon.
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Re: Hellcannon and Ironcurse Icon

Post by Red... »

ICI confers "a 6+ ward save against war machine weapons". That means it confers a 6+ ward save against any weapons used by a model/unit with the classification of "war machine." The Hellcannon is a monster, even if it fires as a warmachine, so it does not fit the rules as stated: no ward save.
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Re: Hellcannon and Ironcurse Icon

Post by Dalamar »

You actually got it wrong Red...
War Machines and War Machine weapons are two distinct classifications.

Any weapon falling into a war machine weapon category is one, regardless of what it happens to be mounted on.

Cannons, stone throwers, flame cannons and bolt theowers are all war machine weapons and ironcuse icon will protect against them, regardless of what they are mounted on.

Counter example: casket of souls is a war machine, but it doesn't fire a war machine weapon, it casts a spell. Ironcurse icon doesn't protect against it.
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