Dark Elves and Lore of Nehekhara

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Marchosias
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Dark Elves and Lore of Nehekhara

Post by Marchosias »

So, this might be actually astonishingly simple but I will ask just to be sure. :)

If a dark elf sorceress takes the new lore of undeath, she can among other things summon a liche priest who than can generate a spell from the lore of Nehekhara. This much is clear.

What might not be entirely clear is how does this affect the Dark Elf army. In two cases, the rules say: "augment, the target is granted this benefit. If you bubble the spell, all friendly Nehekharan Undead units get the benefit". From this wording the situation seems quite simple - the small version can help my witch elves, the boosted version cannot. It just seems odd that a normal and a boosted version would have different targets. So I wonder, do the rules say something else on that matter?
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Lostshadow
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Re: Dark Elves and Lore of Nehekhara

Post by Lostshadow »

Lore of Undeath?

I thought we can use dark magic or from the rule book?

Where exactly is this lore from because I'm pretty sure we can't use it
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Re: Dark Elves and Lore of Nehekhara

Post by Dyvim tvar »

Lostshadow wrote:Where exactly is this lore from because I'm pretty sure we can't use it


It's in Warhammer:Nagash and everyone can use it.

As to the original question, that's a really odd situation and I don't have all the relevant books so I'm not sure I am qualified to comment.
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Re: Dark Elves and Lore of Nehekhara

Post by Thraundil »

RAW: Nothing prevents you from casting lore of nehekhara augments on your units, no, as long as you cast the standard versions. Also, the lore attribute and signature spell obviously wont work :p

RAI: All the spells short fluff descriptions depict how for example "a fierce light emanates from the empty eye sockets of the Nehekharan Undead" for Ptra's incantation (+1 attack / multishot(2) augment to those who does not have the book at hand). Fluffwise, it also doesnt make ANY sense how the long forgotten words of ancient tomb lords might somehow make witch elves strike more swiftly :killed:

So - as the rules are written, nothing interferes with casting the augments on witch elves, for instance, but it seems very clear to me that this is not the intention. The Tomb Kings army book is written well before the end times, and, I think, not with these new rules in mind. I'd probably not try to enforce the castings on living troops :P
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Marchosias
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Re: Dark Elves and Lore of Nehekhara

Post by Marchosias »

What I have learned on this forum though is that while the intent can be obvious for any sane player you can never prove you are right and conclude your case with any certainty and definitiveness. And besides, even if this seems wrong, what if GW really does want you to augment yourself with this lore? It is probably not terribly strong, after all, you have to summon the caster first, roll a useful spell and then get it off.

If you were playing normal DE and normal TK as trusted allies then the augment would work just finely, no?

I went through some other lores and the normal and boosted version of a spell can vary quite a lot: number of hits, range, vortex size but more things, too: a boosted Transformation of Kadon turns you in a completely different beast, a boosted Raise Dead puts skeletons instead of zombies on the table, a boosted Drain Magic can be an augment and a hex at the same time... so it seems the difference between a small and big version of a spell can be arbitrarily high and the RAW wording is the one to use.

By the way, if you summon a VC necromancer instead, things get even funnier as the Lore of Vampires rule attribute just says a friendly model within 12 inches gets healed - there is no mention about the model needing to be undead.
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Re: Dark Elves and Lore of Nehekhara

Post by Dyvim tvar »

Marchosias wrote:What I have learned on this forum though is that while the intent can be obvious for any sane player you can never prove you are right and conclude your case with any certainty and definitiveness.


Although intent may seem obvious in some cases, there are lots of times I have seen people claim that the intent of the designers is "obvious" when there is are plausible reasons why designers would not have intended what someone claims.

In this situation, I don't think intent was much of an issue when the books were written since there was no Lore of Undeath or Undead Legions army at the time. And now that Undead Legions has been written, I personally believe that this issue may not have ever occurred to the designers prior to publication. They do seem to overlook stuff fairly frequently.

In other words, there may be no real "intent" here at all one way or the other.
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