I HATE THE SKAVEN

How to beat those cowardly High Elves?

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I HATE THE SKAVEN

Post by Dark Alliance »

I am using my 2000pt GT army to fight the Skaven tomorrow evening.

My opponent has three big infantry blocks in the centre of his army, 2 x 5 jezzails, ratling guns, slaves which he generally puts out front (and which I've noticed seem to take his opponents forever to kill) and loads of warpstone. The bound spell causing 2d6 s5 i think, is used a lot by him. Oh and a warp lightning cannon! And some gutter runners.

He moves his units well and generally keeps his 3 block infantry units tight together, protected on the flanks by ratling guns.

I have played him twice, lost first time round, drew second time round.

Any ideas out there guys and gals?????? :?


keep the faith
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Grogsnotpowwabomba
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Post by Grogsnotpowwabomba »

Show us your army list. Impossible to say until you do that.
Hell Knight

Post by Hell Knight »

Use dark riders to get in his flanks and defeat hin on combat, mayby use cold ones because they cause fear so the skaven autobreak if defeated in combat
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Post by Grogsnotpowwabomba »

Harpies engage the cannon. Barring that, they should take the jezzails.

Get your Witch Elves into combat immediately with one of the infantry blocks, and use the Corsairs to engage another (assuming you bumped them to 20 strong like I suggested on your army list thread)

The Dark Riders should engage the flank of one of the units in combat to remove their rank bonus (absolutely deadly against skaven).

Screen your COK from his shooting with your other units (it seems that the shooting is all he really has that can harm them). Once they enter combat, they will slaughter him utterly. Especially if your highborn is with them (like I again suggested in the other thread). Your Dark Riders/Harpies are the perfect screen.

Use the RBT to pick off any targets of opportunity (Jezzails, etc.) Barring that, just cut down some ranks of those filthy vermin infantry blocks. His ranks are even more important because of the Ld aspect.

I also suggest another unit of Dark Riders in place of the Xbow warriors. I believe Xbow warriors are only good in large numbers so that they can double up as regiments. Otherwise, you are better off with xbows on your shades/dark riders.
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Post by Leithel and odd »

He has a lot of rank and file trops, but I wouldn't worry about them too much. What I would be worrying about is warmachines and magic. His jezzails and his cannons. You HAVE to figure out a way to take them out in the first few rounds before they cull your ranks and allow his pathetic infintry a chance.

My suggestion would be harpies and perhaps sacrifice some dark riders with a charge into the units. I probably would have taken a noble on a pegasus for this game just for that purpose just as you have but I'm not sure that the gauntlet isn't a waste of points. They won't have any chariots and are mostly T3... it might be overkill.

I think the RBTs are a bad idea, I would take a Hydra instead. Flams is very useful against T3 and more likley to kill a lot of weak troops rather than just a few each round.

I said it on the army list and I'll say it again here. You have no weaknesses but again you have no strengths.. good luck though, let us know how it goes with a battle report. I haven't played Scaven yet.
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Hell Knight

Post by Hell Knight »

why not worry about the infantry? the skaven infantry will beat ours in combat for sure, so goo all shooty and use lots of cavalry. Hopefully hes not using any screens and many waramchines or you are toast :(
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those stupid rats!!

Post by Pendragon »

hello!!!
skaven cannot beat the DE in CC...
and I also HATE SKAVEN!!!
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Post by Grogsnotpowwabomba »

Hell Knight wrote:why not worry about the infantry? the skaven infantry will beat ours in combat for sure, so goo all shooty and use lots of cavalry. Hopefully hes not using any screens and many waramchines or you are toast :(


Since when???

When they outnumber us 4 to 1 maybe (which is entirely possible). But I would put my money on a unit of Corsairs carving up a unit of Clanrats very well.

And Witch Elves will just obliterate anything save StormVermin.
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Post by Adreal_the_immaculate »

ok warplightning cannon crew must flee as charge reaction, also corsairs in the front and dark riders in the flank and his slaves and clanrats will run, black guard or executioners will mess up his storm vermin RBT are great use on with single shot and one multi shot aim them both at one unit and it wont last. He'll only have one true magic user and atleast one half mage. My only sugestion against him is to RBT the unit he is in, never go up against a unit that has skirmishes lurking near by as they will either ignor armour, reduce it emensly or have poison. so thats all the help I can give you :shock:
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Post by Double-edge »

all are good suggestions but i haven't seen anyone suggest the ratling guns yet. i play skaven and let me tell u, those guns tear up units like elves. i play against dwarves (mostly) and the ratling gun is still very effective. if i were u i wouldn't jump into CC so fast. get a screen and have a unit charge the ratling gun or take them out as soon as possible, cause they can still shoot u in CC. [/quote]
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Post by Dark Alliance »

Well I lost the battle, he got a solid victory. No need for a battle report it can be summed up very quickly - he had four guys casting the warped lightning spell thing (2d6 s5), 3 rattling guns which were lethal and he was rolling 13s in his magic phase with consummate ease!!!!

Despite the speed I had, the only unit I was able to get into combat was my cok on his flank, they won, overun & were promptly despatched by the warped lightning cannon.

So yes, watch out for rattling guns, they probably did the most damage to me with lethal ease.

Lesson learnt? Yes, deploy in a stronger formation and push forward at one point.This way I should be able to get my main units into combat, while taking the damage with dark riders & the harpies.

Rematch is in 2 weeks time so I'll let you know how I get on

keep the faith
Hell Knight

Post by Hell Knight »

GrogsnotPowwabomba wrote:
Hell Knight wrote:why not worry about the infantry? the skaven infantry will beat ours in combat for sure, so goo all shooty and use lots of cavalry. Hopefully hes not using any screens and many waramchines or you are toast :(


Since when???

When they outnumber us 4 to 1 maybe (which is entirely possible). But I would put my money on a unit of Corsairs carving up a unit of Clanrats very well.

And Witch Elves will just obliterate anything save StormVermin.


because of the outnumbering and clanrats get a decent 4+ save, so you need to rol very good to win by just doing kills, remember DE don't have that much armour, and the DE will porbably have only 2 or 1 ranks because of the skaven shooting and magic

i've seen it happen, and i play DE and skaven so i could know
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Post by Totlichen »

Try using something that gives terror, for eksample a Manticore or a character with deathmask, throw them into combat and watch those critters fly :!:
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Post by Grogsnotpowwabomba »

Totlichen wrote:Try using something that gives terror, for eksample a Manticore or a character with deathmask, throw them into combat and watch those critters fly :!:


Excellent point Totlichen.

Terror can really screw up the Skaven badly.
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Post by Marauder »

I have also recently played against skaven, and found one BIG weakness in their list.... however it is far easier to exploit it with my dwarfs than with my DE.

The ratling gun, despite being purchased with a unit, is in fact its own unit. If it is wiped out by shooting, magic or hth, then all units with x" must make a panic test (I can never remember the various panic ranges... why didn't they just pick a range and stick with it for all conditions!!).

Now the dwarfs can just use one of their many template warmachines to drop these guys.. but us dark elves can't. If you opponent is foolish enough to make the ratling gun the closest target, you can always snipe it with the reapers.

The only thing that springs to mind right now is the death magic spell "drain life" where you hit every unit in 12". Can anyone else think of ways around targetting those things?

BTW, the terror is brilliant. I watched a O&G player chase the skaven off the table with a Giant.

I do feel your pain though. The first time I played them he was wiping out whole units of dwarf warriors! I was thinking at the time that my Dark Elves were just going to get hosed by them. But I think the key is that you have to not be too scared of all the shooting, and just go in and break just one unit. It should cause enough panic to route a good part of his army. Once a bit unit or two are gone, your shooting should be able to take out some of those key gunteams/warplock engineers.
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Post by Hell Knight »

uhm ratling gun is only unit strenght 2, to force a panic test you need a unit wit at least unit strenght 5
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Post by Linda lobsta defenda »

Hell Knight wrote:uhm ratling gun is only unit strenght 2, to force a panic test you need a unit wit at least unit strenght 5


eh nope. see page 81 of the rulebook.under 6. Unit wiped out by shooting or magic within 4".

it never sais anything about unit strength or unit size for that matter
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Post by Druchiigeneral »

Apart from the drain life spell, you can use Black Horror to get rid of those pesky ratling guns. It affects everything under the template, so there's a good chance you can remove them from the game in this way.
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Post by Ewok »

the problem with skaven is their shoot into combat rule... if you won't break them they will exact heavy punishment on your troops with ratling guns... most horrible are rat swarms, which can tie up almost anything for a couple of turns - even Witch Elves with their insane numbers of attacks rarely will get through 3 bases in in one pass...
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Post by Whaledawg »

Might I suggest magic? Black Horror will DECIMATE at least one of his units, and if he
keeps then shoulder to shoulder(which skaven allways do) U can kill enough of them that
u might even decrease the rank bonus to leadership and make 2 units take a panic test at the
same time. It's brutal. So is charging with a unit of corsairs and a soceress who has that life drainer. U will kill half the unit and force a panic test b4 the combat even starts.

Terror is good also. This might be the one case where it is worth 50pts just to give a hero that terror causing mask. Y is terror so good against skaven? Well they lose their rank bonus to leadership once they start running so after that there is about a 1 in 20 chance of them rallying.

And I also think RBT are where its at. 2 of them should be able to make a unit take a panic test
every turn. Once one panics.......

And Dark Elf assault flamers too. Those rule. 3-4 models with those will kill at least 2 of his units.
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Post by Dungeon_god »

umm, Dark Elf Assault Flamers?

Am I missing pages from my rulebook?
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Post by Whaledawg »

They're in the Bicentenial annual
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Post by Sortelveren »

huh?
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Post by Dungeon_god »

whaledawg wrote:They're in the Bicentenial annual


Ermm, come again?

Do you mean the 2000 annual? What are you talking about?

I am so confused! :?
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Post by Thanee »

Have played against the Skaven only once so far.

A combination of Black Horror and lots of mostly small fast units was pretty good to defeat them (over 2000 Victory Points difference in a 2000 points game... is there a result beyond Massacre!? ;))

Bye
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