fanatics

Lord dalamar do'urden · Sat Oct 12, 2002 8:29 pm

O.K. Dark Alliance will laugh at this.
How do you guys deal with fanatics?
I had 800+ points wipped out by them on thursday.
We dont really have a cheap unit to use to draw them out especially if the opponant has 3 units with fanatics in all of them.
Phil

Post by **Lord Thalack** » Sat Oct 12, 2002 8:32 pm

You could use a few harpies to draw them out early in the game

Bye
Lord Thalack

Lord dalamar do'urden · Sat Oct 12, 2002 8:44 pm

only problem here is that it will only work on 1 unit .
Most people taking mad caps and us omly being able to take 1 unit of harpies.
Thanks phil

Post by **Thanee** » Sat Oct 12, 2002 8:50 pm

Unless the goblin units are far apart you should be able to reach two units at the same time, moving your Harpies in a line with maximum distance (1") between them. This will cover 2x 8" + 4" (the gaps) + ~4" (the combined width of five 20mm bases) = 24" of distance between the two goblin units with the minimum of 5 Harpies!

Shades (5 for 70 pts) and Dark Riders (5 for 90 pts) would work, too, of course, to trigger the fanatics of different units.

Why the reference to mad caps? I don't exactly remember what the mushrooms do, but weren't they for magic or something?

Bye
Thanee

Post by **Dark Alliance** » Sat Oct 12, 2002 10:43 pm

To Phil (with respect) ha ha :lol:

Seriously though, you have my sympathy. That was the first time he had used that army. I am going to play it on Tuesday so I'll let you know how I get on with it.

To Thanee - the mad cap mushrooms (which I believe only one unit can have) double the fanatic damage on the first turn!

Back to Phil - you saw my army, intend to use my harpies and shades to draw them out and then I'm gonna shoot 'em. Thanee gave a good idea to stretch out the harpies and try to affect 2 units at once. The thing is,o nce they are out the basic unit which is left is pretty crap. And small. So Dark Riders in the side and front will do it, assuming they pass their fear test of course. Remember Goblins fear elves they don't outnumber by at more than 2 - 1.

Another tactic I use is magic - chillwind, black horror - only one hit and they have to test, and shooting with rbts. Destroy a war machine completely with shooting and make any goblin unit nearby test. Chances are it will fail & run, taking the fanatics with it.

Hope you enjoyed yourself anyway

Cheezz · Post by **Cheezz** » Tue Oct 15, 2002 6:49 am

In saturday,I wiped out night goblins in my first shooting phase,knowing I would have problems.Still,I lost.ith Orcs & Goblins,you may have much morew problems than fanatics.Can anyone remember White Dwarf 253,when Gav and Fat Bloke played with Dwarfs against Space(Goblins only) and Phil Kelly(Skaven).After the battle they made a picture of all units that gork killed(Gork's Warpath & Foot of Gork).From 1403 Victory pts Gork killed 967(yep,I'm reading it right now).That's what happened to me in saturday.I made a list of my units and counted how many models were wiped out by magic.It was about 1100 :oops:

pts,on a 2000 pts game!So don't worry bout the fanatics,you should better fear a level 4 shaman. :evil:

But now I have some lists thanx to some people on this site.

Crimsondeath · Post by **Crimsondeath** » Tue Oct 15, 2002 7:32 am

How many units with fanatics does he have?

If it's just a single unit, then you can either try to avoid it (difficult), panic it with shooting, or allocate a sacrificial unit depending on the circumstances.

Also, you should note that a unit in difficult terrain will still cause fanatics to be released, and the fanatics will die when they reach the difficult terrain (and before getting your unit).

Legionz · Post by **Legionz** » Tue Oct 15, 2002 8:02 am

cheezz wrote:In saturday,I wiped out night goblins in my first shooting phase,knowing I would have problems.Still,I lost.ith Orcs & Goblins,you may have much morew problems than fanatics.Can anyone remember White Dwarf 253,when Gav and Fat Bloke played with Dwarfs against Space(Goblins only) and Phil Kelly(Skaven).After the battle they made a picture of all units that gork killed(Gork's Warpath & Foot of Gork).From 1403 Victory pts Gork killed 967(yep,I'm reading it right now).That's what happened to me in saturday.I made a list of my units and counted how many models were wiped out by magic.It was about 1100 pts,on a 2000 pts game!So don't worry bout the fanatics,you should better fear a level 4 shaman. But now I have some lists thanx to some people on this site.

use morte dispell scrolls the next time

Cheezz · Post by **Cheezz** » Tue Oct 15, 2002 8:20 am

I used 4 dispell scrolls,but he killed both of my mages in his 1st turn.More comments?That's why I made a new topic to ask people what to do against this.

Post by **Dark Alliance** » Tue Oct 15, 2002 10:05 am

Hey Phil

I did him last night - but that was with my khorne army. I used 2 units of warhounds to draw the fanatics out in a similar way to Thanee's suggestion. Then skipped round 'em and mullered the whole army with 2 units.

Mind you they were one unit of 24 chosen khorne warriors and one unit of 10 chosen khorne knights!

I am playing him tonight with my Dark Elves. I post later and let you know the outcome

Tue Oct 15, 2002 11:27 am

remember fanatics can't enter difficult terrain so if you do get the golden opportunety shield your units with that and the fanatics can't hurt you

not always easy but should kill off a few.

failing that the long harpy line is a major pain in the ass for them fanatics. every fanatic out round one? eekk

Leithel and odd · Post by **Leithel and odd** » Tue Oct 15, 2002 12:14 pm

If the opponent's night goblin units are near another Orc unit then run some DR within 8 inches and inline with the other opponent units so if he tries to kill the DR unit he will possibly end up killing his own guys. It's worth taking a hit on the DR unit to bring out the fanatics early because it will un doubetedly put the fanatics in front of his own units and slow down his advance letting you shoot him down a little.

Fanatics aren't that scary, just take em out early and use them as a screen.

Post by **Dark Alliance** » Tue Oct 15, 2002 12:20 pm

CrimsonDeath wrote:[color=#FF6666]How many units with fanatics does he have?color]

There are three units of night goblins in that army and they contain 8 fanatics.

Lord dalamar do'urden · Tue Oct 15, 2002 3:48 pm

hi dark alliance.
Great show even if it was with chaos.
Let me know how you get on with your dark elves.
The problem with this army is that it has 4 sharmen. and that means lots and lots of waarg it is not a nice lore of magic as it is so destrutive.
3 units of gobbos are placed so that they are at least 8 inches apart on set up so getting moree than one unit to relerase at a time is difficult.
Gary is a good player who has thought alot about this army and although very beatable it is still a tricky army to face.
phil

Post by **Dark Alliance** » Tue Oct 15, 2002 11:14 pm

Phil - he chickened out man! Went off and played Warmaster instead. So much, much bantering later, he is now backed into a corner to play on thursday at our club.

Gonna do him man! !razz! Here is the list ......

Lord mounted on a manticore, with the Gauntlet of Power, heavy armour, sea dragon cloak and the Enchanted Shield.

Noble Battle Standard Bearer with heavy armour, sea dragon cloak and the Hydra Banner, mounted on a cold one and leading a unit of 7 Cold One Knights with full command group and the Banner of Murder.

Level 1 Sorceress with 1 Dispel Scroll and the Seal of Ghrond (for magic defence)

1 Bolt Thrower

18 Corsairs with the War Banner and full command unit (which the sorceress will join when/if she outlives her usefulness, to make up the full rank bonus)

5 Dark Riders with rxbs and a musician

10 Crossbowmen with a musician and shields

Another 5 Cold One Knights with full command unit

1 Cold One Chariot with spears

And 5 Harpies.

Tactics: Use the harpies and the dark riders to draw the fanatics in my first turn. Hopefully he will look to try and establish a screen across the front of his own troops with the fanatics, which I will then look to shoot with the crossbowmen. Hopefully creating large enough gaps for my chargers to pass through.

His level 4 orc shamen, who is also the general is a concern as you quite rightly say. If I can get the charge I intend to use my general to hit him in the front where I will direct the attacks, and a unit in the side, possibly the 5 cok if I am lucky.

Dependant upon the final resting place of the fanatics, I will probably use my trademark move of fast redeployment in turn 2 to take advantage of any gaps in his defensive line.

Sounds good I think but we will see.

I am playing dwarfs fist on thursday @ 4.30pm and then high elves after. Tourney practice man !lol!

Wed Oct 16, 2002 1:20 pm

oh remember do NOT make a challenge against the unit that has his general!

often i see people make that mistake then get long in the face as the wizard scoots off giggle

Post by **Thanee** » Wed Oct 16, 2002 2:01 pm

Linda wrote:remember fanatics can't enter difficult terrain so if you do get the golden opportunety shield your units with that and the fanatics can't hurt you not always easy but should kill off a few.

failing that the long harpy line is a major pain in the ass for them fanatics. every fanatic out round one? eekk

Yeah, if the fanatics get triggered early, the smart Orcs & Goblins General will point them towards the nearest terrain feature and hope that they'll die there. Otherwise the fanatics could easily turn back on his own units!

Bye
Thanee

Post by **Thanee** » Wed Oct 16, 2002 2:06 pm

fizz286 wrote:3 units of gobbos are placed so that they are at least 8 inches apart on set up so getting moree than one unit to relerase at a time is difficult.

As I said, 5 Harpies can cover a distance of 24" between two units already!

I don't have the O&G book, but you only have to be within 8" of the unit (anywhere not within the front arc or something) to trigger them, right?

So, if they are less than 16" apart, even a single model would be able to trigger them from two units!

Bye
Thanee

Post by **Dark Alliance** » Wed Oct 16, 2002 2:07 pm

Linda wrote:oh remember do NOT make a challenge against the unit that has his general!

Ta for the advice. My intention is just to direct attacks against the general, his armour is pidgeon feather so he should die quite easily. No ward save either!

As long as he doesn't back out again.... :lol:

Post by **Thanee** » Wed Oct 16, 2002 2:14 pm

If you plan to use the Highborn on Manticore to charge a unit into the front to kill a character, you better have a unit of Dark Riders in the flank (otherwise you will probably lose the combat) AND best have a Herald with the Dark Riders to accept the challenge he will issue then with the unit champion!

Bye
Thanee

Post by **Dark Alliance** » Wed Oct 16, 2002 3:49 pm

Yeh, I was planning on using my smaller unit of knights in the side as I figure with the higher ws and charge bonus my cok champion should take care of any challenge from the orc unit. I mentioned this briefly in my tactics, sorry if it wasn't clear.

I've been caught like that before. My lord once charged the skaven general's unit on a dragon and was promptly challenged. Not what I was expecting. But that was in the early days when I had just begun to play.................... :roll:

Legionz · Post by **Legionz** » Wed Oct 16, 2002 4:22 pm

Thanee wrote:If you plan to use the Highborn on Manticore to charge a unit into the front to kill a character, you better have a unit of Dark Riders in the flank (otherwise you will probably lose the combat) AND best have a Herald with the Dark Riders to accept the challenge he will issue then with the unit champion!

Bye
Thanee

the herald cannot accept the challenge because he is in the flanks and not in combat with the front rank (which contains the champion)

also if the herald decides to isue a challenge no one can accept (unless a character is for some reason placed in another rank and hes in contact with the dark riders)

Post by **Thanee** » Wed Oct 16, 2002 4:45 pm

You are wrong, Legionz.

Sorry, Dark Alliance, hadn't noticed that part. But better safe than sorry. Good to see, that you are aware of this trap!

Bye
Thanee

Legionz · Post by **Legionz** » Wed Oct 16, 2002 5:19 pm

Thanee wrote:You are wrong, Legionz.

The challenge must be fought with 2 characters (or champions) that are in combat with each other (or their units), and a unit in the flank is not in combat with the front rankso no challenges can be fought

It says so on Page 99, Issuing a challenge, that the characters must be in combat with each other

Post by **Thanee** » Wed Oct 16, 2002 5:30 pm

I cannot check right now, but I'm quite sure, that the Champion must only be in contact with any unit in the battle to issue/accept a challenge (front, flank or rear is irrelevant, as long as both champions are in a fighting position)!

Bye
Thanee