High elves versus Dark elves, need your opinion!

Druchiigeneral · Post by **Druchiigeneral** » Thu Sep 26, 2002 10:15 pm

I get the impression that High elves are a 'bit' better than their evil counterparts, the Duchii. Since I'm relatively new to the game, I could be wrong on this one ( so please do correct me if that's the case ). For as far as I claim to know the HE ( I have to admit I never played against them ), they seem to have several advantages which we, DE players, don't have. There's the fact that some of their units can take magic items with them, they're immune to panic ( or at least something similar ) and their spearmen fight in three ranks. There probably are some other things that I forgot ( e.g. Tyrion, I won't start on this one ), but my knowledge of them simply is too limited. This is my opinion and I'm interested in what you veterans have to tell me on this topic. I just want to add that this isn't meant as a complaint as many others do on the GW forum. Thanks.

Post by **Dark Alliance** » Thu Sep 26, 2002 10:53 pm

Ok, when I first started to play this game (a whole 9 months ago) one of my early regular opponents used HE. My initial impression was that the magic would do me every time. The three rank spears and the core cavalry units.

But to my surprise, as I became more experienced I found that not to be the case. By exploiting our strengths and their weaknesses I overcame my worries. Using the Druchii aggressively scares the bejesus out of any ***** high elf "leader". All the tactics and opinions you need to allay your worries you will find by searching this site.

And we look so much bette than they do. Our minis are just so cooool!

Druchii Master · Post by **Druchii Master** » Fri Sep 27, 2002 1:14 am

Yes the fact that we don't have hearts and flowers plastered all over our armour and sheild makes up for it :twisted:

Having said that HEs do generally have it much better than DEs. They have similar units that are better and cheaper. But I don't think this is any reason to choose one army over another. I play in a group where I win most of my games, and the HE player wins next to none. It is all about what you do with what you have.

Also when playing against HEs the best way is to hit em hard and fast from every angle, which is what DEs do best. The hatred rule means that cavalry charges are almost always successful, and HTH is the only way to take em out.

Leithel and odd · Post by **Leithel and odd** » Fri Sep 27, 2002 3:43 am

Well this is one of the major debates that are had here on the Druchii.net forums and we all have our opinions. Mine is that the HE list is more "standard" with the rest of the warhammer races. The DE list being non-standard and needing to employ different tactics. I don't think that one is better than the other, but I prefer Dark Elves because of the modells and their tactics. I think people just see the advantages of the DE army and fail to see the advantages their army has over the HE list. I mean we can't seriously expect to be better than them at everything if you want a fair game.

Hell our monsters rule, we cause fear and terror all over the place, we have the best fast cavalry in the game BY FAR and I can go on. Sure the HE list has their own little things like attacking in 3 ranks and it's your job as a Druchii general to exploit these. Attack from the flank, bushka no more 3 ranks and a demolished unit of spear elves.

Good luck when you play High Elves, think like a Druchii and I rekon you'll win.

Shadowkiller venomblade · Fri Dec 06, 2002 8:28 pm

in my opinion he suke. every time i have used them or paly anganist them he lost and patheticly

Inquisitor black · Post by **Inquisitor black** » Sat Dec 07, 2002 5:54 am

Thanks for that post shadowkiller, you really intrigued me there. Ta.

Anyway, I think you will find the High Elves as has been said are alot more straight forward army, with regualr cavalry and regular infantry.

They arent subject to stupidity, can fight in three ranks, and have a good list of magic items. What they dont have however, is cavalry that causes fear, core troops with two attacks, or access to the rpx (aka the rain of death).

Against high elves go on the offensive. Hit em hard form all sides. Use heavy cavalry and chariots one flank, and dark riders and shades on the other.

The center should be occupied by corsairs, and witch elves. Use bolt throwers as support and target single enemy units at a time, and try to negate as many rank bonuses as possible. Abuse chillwind and always remember black horror and dragon princes dont mix.

Finally, never feel as if you are being cheesy when fighting against the High Elves. They can field the cheesiest armies within the rules. Damn those High Elves!

Shadowkiller venomblade · Sat Dec 07, 2002 7:45 am

i ment HE instead of he

Shadowkiller venomblade · Sat Dec 07, 2002 8:02 am

and only have two heros and two many singular troops and tha regiments are too expensive.and teir magical armors protect as well as shiz (exept the helmet). and the long bows stink. and thier magic si not comperavble thiz dark magic. I really had to say that

Inquisitor black · Post by **Inquisitor black** » Sat Dec 07, 2002 8:41 am

Thats great.

Go to www.ulthuan.com and post your opinions there. I'm sure you will have lots of supporters.

Well not reeeally!

Anyway, I think HE are one of the best armies in WH (behing the druchii ofcourse

)

The only let down is the lack of character. I think despite the fact we have a incomplete list, our fluff is waaay better than HE fluff. Like seriously, who get's their king killed by a Dwarf??? heh.

Alith anar · Post by **Alith anar** » Sat Dec 07, 2002 1:43 pm

HE are easily one of the most powerful armies in the game. They more or less have everything DE have, and more. No core troops with 2 attacks? Well, in effect, the Spearmen act as if they had 3, and even if charging, they still strike in 2 ranks.
No fear causing cav? Maybe so, but what is easiest for an enemy to come around; fear, or M9 heavy cav?
And longbows don't suck. They might not be able to shoot off as many arrows as the rxb, but they can do so at a longer range.
And don't even get me started on Swordmasters. WS6, S5 and I5 is an awesome combo. If joined by a hero, they can kill more or less anything. I could go on like this.

However, the thing that is their downfall is the fluff. It sucks bigtime, as do their traditional colours. No elf would be stupid enough to go wandering about in white clothes if stealth is needed. It's simply too far out.
Grr, I could go on all day about this but I won't.. you get the idea...

Inquisitor black · Post by **Inquisitor black** » Sat Dec 07, 2002 1:48 pm

I never said the dark elves were better than the high elves, I was simply outlininbg some dark elf advantages. If you take the time to do a step by step analysis of the armies you will eventaully find that the HE are marginally better through magic items, and their elite troops.

In saying this, High Elf players have learnt to fear witch elves and our beloved corairs. You have to love corsairs delivering a flank charge to HE spearelves though!

Alith anar · Post by **Alith anar** » Sun Dec 08, 2002 1:59 am

As was I, although I was uplining HE... and no HE actually fears Witches. Statistically, they can only barely beat spearmen (not counting hatred in, though). Stick a War Banner in the spears and shoot the witches a bit first, and they're off. I've done this countless times. The corsairs are pretty good though. But if anything charges HE spears in the flank, they're fucked...

Poisonblade · Post by **Poisonblade** » Sun Dec 08, 2002 4:05 am

Witches rip through Swordmasters actually. The hard part is getting them there with full unit strength.

The key to beating High Elves in my experience has been to get into combat as fast as possible. In combat, our big advantage against them (hatred) makes a huge difference.

Cold Ones with the banner of murder will outcharge any silver helms, and have a chance at outcharging Dragon Princes. Dark Riders will probably get shot or have magic cast on them, but that just means your infantry and cold ones are safer.

High Elves are my favorite army to battle, it has always been a blast. Just have fun and attack!

Inquisitor black · Post by **Inquisitor black** » Sun Dec 08, 2002 8:29 am

"As was I, although I was uplining HE... and no HE actually fears Witches. Statistically, they can only barely beat spearmen (not counting hatred in, though). Stick a War Banner in the spears and shoot the witches a bit first, and they're off. I've done this countless times. The corsairs are pretty good though. But if anything charges HE spears in the flank, they're fucked..."

Well, you might want to count hatred in. And also, the druchii are good at providing screens for their lightly armoured troops light witch elves. Anyway, Im going to argue with you, High Elves do have a better list than Dark Elves.

Lateo · Post by **Lateo** » Sun Dec 08, 2002 9:42 pm

Inquisitor Black wrote:

High Elves do have a better list than Dark Elves.

The thing is that DE and HE balance each other out by their diffeent powers and weaknessess. De can take core fast cav and core add handweapon. HE can take three rank figthing spearelves and heavy cavalry as core. DE witchelves are able to kill every kind of HE that stands on his two feet if the witchelves are used in a good way. Our Blackguard kicks their Phoenix Guard their swordmasters kicks pretty much ass to. He have Great Eagles DE have Harpies. HE have their hounors and DE the temple of khain.
Well I can go on like this forever even if i think that HE are a little tiny bit better than DE. But even so, I think that the DE have a much more amusing armylist.

Inquisitor black · Post by **Inquisitor black** » Mon Dec 09, 2002 12:59 am

Amusing it is, but whem it comes down to shove, the HE list wins out. The DE list is competitive though, and does have potential in the hands of a good WH player.

Dark lord kaleth · Post by **Dark lord kaleth** » Mon Dec 09, 2002 6:10 pm

Well this is one of the oldes questions, and there are many reasons that people believe HE better then DE. But that is because you always have tendencies to look at your opponents strengts while comparing to your own weaknesses.

I am a former HE player... and are still very interested in the HE, besides one of my main opponents are an HE player. but lets look shall we? I call this my little rule of Six (just like the Dwarf Rule of three)

HE Strength 1: Core Cavalry (yes I am here thinking of the much debated
Silverhelms)
HE Strength 2: Cavalry are faster this more mobile then DE cavalry.
HE Strength 3: They have Honours
HE Strength 4: MAGIC ITEMS!!!
-They are cheaper
- They have tendencies to be better then our Magic items (this is
partly because we look at effect/cost... but still!)
HE Strength 5: They can shoot longer than us... or at least some of them can.
HE Strength 6: THEY ARE VERSITILE!!! this is the most scaring fact about the HE
army... remember you never know what you are op against.

Now what to do to avoid these things... well the first one is easy to tell, but difficult to make into life. Since your problem lies within the Core list, you should also try to find the soloution within your own core list. In this case Dark Riders... Engage the enemy at your will... remember you can move the same distance but we have a slight edge since we have fast (although... remember that the silverhelmes also have the ability to be fast cavalry, so always remember to equip your Dark Riders with Repeaters!)
hmmm the second problem is more difficult to counter, yes they are faster... and proberbly will charge you, but here again Dark Riders will come to our aid... block the enemy with them... maybe you Dark Riders will be slaughtered, but they only need to hold 2 rounds of combat... then your Cold Ones are fresh on fight.
Yes they do have honours... but we have assassins!!! kill their leaders and then they dont have anymore honours!
hmmm Magic Items... these are difficult to counter... just hope that your opponent isn't to clever one these and a bit of luck have never harmed anyone
Yes Longbows is a threat to us... they effective mean that they can shoot at us one round before we can open fire... but fear not... when we fire each of our warriors fire as two... and it is well dokumented that 2 attacks always are better then 1.
as a last thing: YOU NEVER KNOW WHAT TO FACE WHEN YOU PLAY AGAINST HIGH ELVES! it can be an all defensive army, it can be a devestating offensive army but most players tend to take little from both offensive and defensive and you can't do Sh**t about it!

You proberbly have come across all these things before... but I just wanted to give some of my experience away

Goricexii · Post by **Goricexii** » Thu Dec 12, 2002 10:15 am

......but Inquisitor, witches DON'T have hatred against high elves!

Because they're frenzied. Which means they're immune to psychology. Which means no hatred. You know.

Purple whisper · Post by **Purple whisper** » Thu Dec 12, 2002 11:14 am

Dark Lord Kaleth wrote:remember that the silverhelmes also have the ability to be fast cavalry, so always remember to equip your Dark Riders with Repeaters!

I don't have a High Elf book nearby to verify this, but IIRC Silver Helms cannot become fast cavalry. They have the option to come rather light equipped, but it doesn't make 'em fast.