Druchii Magic...As good as it should be?

Binky · Post by **Binky** » Sun Sep 29, 2002 12:49 pm

My main army is Necrarch and I frequently "borrow" my friend's Tzeentch army so obviously I'm used to complete domination of the magic phase, but probably my (second) favourite army (both fluffwise and in terms of gameplay) is Dark Elves and I'm gonna start an army this Christmas (gotta love bein' a kid

) and so obviously I've done a bit of research and I realised that Dark Elves are nowhere near as powerful magic users as they should be fluffwise. E.g. Dark Elves use powers that High Elves wouldn't dare to, yes? Why wouldn't they dare to? Because it's too dangerous? So what Games Workshop are trying to say is that the Druchii turned away from a safe and incredibly powerful form of magic to a more dangerous and weaker one? That strikes me as strange

Sureal · Post by **Sureal** » Sun Sep 29, 2002 1:31 pm

You don't seem to be getting many replies, so I'll give you my (newbie) opion.

Do you mean our lore or spellcaster's in general?

The +1 is nice, but doesn't compare with the fact that you can get two goblin mages for a similar price.

Our lore has got some good spells, over than words of pain.

We only get three lore compared to the HE all of the bloody ones (though only level 4), I mean, if HE get the lore of death and shadow etc. why don't we get all of them as well?

We have very few arcan items which really doesn't help.

Why?

Post by **Lord Thalack** » Sun Sep 29, 2002 1:39 pm

I think dark magic is good enough, except for word of pain. Just gotta love a high sorceress with black horror and soulstealer

Last battle I killed 7 silver helms in my first turn just by casting black horror

Bye
Lord Thalack

Dantrag · Post by **Dantrag** » Sun Sep 29, 2002 1:54 pm

Word of pain needs to be able to be cast into combat - apart from that i think the spells are fine but the high elves get better options. We need better options

Post by **Thanee** » Sun Sep 29, 2002 2:17 pm

Yep, Word of Pain should be castable into close combat. Dominion might get a higher range (18"), but that's far less important. We definitely need some offensive bound spells to complement our magic!

So, no, dark elf magic is not as powerful as it should be IMHO, altho it is very close and surely useful already!

Bye
Thanee

Post by **Lord Thalack** » Sun Sep 29, 2002 3:43 pm

Would be nice to have chillwind as a bound spell
Or black horror :twisted:

Bye
Lord Thalack

Metallurgist · Post by **Metallurgist** » Sun Sep 29, 2002 5:13 pm

Personally, I am a big fan of dark magic. Black horror is simply awesome, and dominion has a lot of winning potential - if you can get it off twice in a game, your odds of winning improve dramatically.

Long live dark magic!

-Metallurgist

Da'ghault · Post by **Da'ghault** » Sun Sep 29, 2002 5:13 pm

As many other already pointed out the Word of Pain is useless and need to be changed to cast into combat. Apart from that our magic list is good enough for me. Dominion is my favourite. Perfect to stop all the super units that some people always like to play with. Having their best unit glued to the ground for three rounds really seems to annoy some people.

A useful bound spell would be nice though.

Da'Ghault Deceiver of the Damned

Oguleth · Post by **Oguleth** » Sun Sep 29, 2002 9:11 pm

As with every other post - Word of Pain is useless except against maybe empire gunlines and such when you have used up all avaible chillwinds.

I love the rest of the lore, I think it`s well done. And if you want a more indirect lore, take Shadow, a more direct lore, take Death...

Furion · Post by **Furion** » Mon Sep 30, 2002 2:05 am

Its not so much the spells as it is the casters. When ours cost more than Empire wizards and die just as easily for more points, I tend to avoid it. Magic for Elves in this edition has suffered. For a group of great practioners, they sure do have a hell of a lot of cheaper counter parts who do it just as well if not better. That's the real problem.

Druchiigeneral · Post by **Druchiigeneral** » Mon Sep 30, 2002 7:14 am

Apart from the somewhat high point cost, the real problem is the range of our spells. I'm not saying Dark magic sucks, but adding a few inches to the range of some spells could help. The +1 we have on our casting rolls probably explains the higher point cost, though I think it is a bit exagggerated.

Post by **Grogsnotpowwabomba** » Mon Sep 30, 2002 4:06 pm

Our magic is good, but our mages are the most expensive in the game for their effectiveness.

+40 pts to upgrade to lvl 2!! :shock:

Post by **Grogsnotpowwabomba** » Mon Sep 30, 2002 4:09 pm

Lord Thalack wrote:Would be nice to have chillwind as a bound spell
Or black horror

Bye
Lord Thalack

No, this topic was about the shittyness of our magic, not our magic items.

All joking aside, I do agree we should have some sort of a bound spell item that fires a missle (Chillwind would be ideal).

Oh well...

Post by **Dark Alliance** » Mon Sep 30, 2002 8:46 pm

Well I think Dark MAgic is ok, as long as you get the spells you want in any particular game!

I agree with Lord Thaleck & Grog about a bound spell magic missile, and a thread like this will inevitably lead off into other directions. Here it goes again . . .

Can someone please explain exactly how to work the template positioning when Black Horror has been successfully cast. I have come across two different interpretations.

Post by **Lord Thalack** » Mon Sep 30, 2002 8:53 pm

When black horror is cast place the CENTRE within line of sight of the wizard and within 18''. So the edge of the template can be further away then 18''. All models partially under the template are hit on a 4+. All models completely under it are automatically hit.
SO only thing is to keep the centre within 18'' and within line of sight

Bye
Lord Thalack

Post by **Dark Alliance** » Mon Sep 30, 2002 9:00 pm

Sorry for appearing dumb here,

so the centre of the template can never be in the centre of the target unit then (unless a single model or war machine I suppose).

To put it another way - I have seen it played where the caster places the template in such a way as to cover whole units. This is wrong then?

Post by **Lord Thalack** » Mon Sep 30, 2002 9:06 pm

You can place it anywhere you want, completely over a unit if you want to as long as the centre of the template is within 18'' of your sorceress.

Bye
Lord Thalack

Post by **Dark Alliance** » Mon Sep 30, 2002 9:10 pm

Thanx

Dragon9 · Post by **Dragon9** » Thu Oct 10, 2002 2:26 pm

Yes, the Sorceresses are more expensive because of the +1 to casting rolls. They're +35 points over any other mage (IIRC) and that's the same cost for a magic item in other lists that increases your casting roll by 1. So while yes, it does make them more expensive, it's consistent with the points rules at least. And this is reflected in the points to upgrade a level. being +40 instead of the usual +35.

Metallurgist · Post by **Metallurgist** » Fri Oct 11, 2002 1:04 pm

Dragon9: a +1 on casting item always costs 50pts (ie staff of baduum, there are others, all at 50pts). Of course, the higher cost in comparison to humans is also due to simply being an elf (Ld, WS, I). The HE have equally expensive mages (at least Lev 2 and 4, Lev 1 and 3 are 5pts MORE expensive), but they get +1 on dispel and the free drain magic spell.

Suffice it to say that +1 on casting is better than on dispel.

-Metallurgist

Matras · Post by **Matras** » Fri Oct 11, 2002 2:35 pm

I personally like Dark Magic. It is very useful, good developed and the only problem it has - relatively small ranges - can easily be solved by putting the sorceress on a steed.
Our items, however, are a completely different question...

Dragon9 · Post by **Dragon9** » Sat Oct 12, 2002 3:56 am

Metallurgist wrote:Dragon9: a +1 on casting item always costs 50pts (ie staff of baduum, there are others, all at 50pts). Of course, the higher cost in comparison to humans is also due to simply being an elf (Ld, WS, I). The HE have equally expensive mages (at least Lev 2 and 4, Lev 1 and 3 are 5pts MORE expensive), but they get +1 on dispel and the free drain magic spell.

Suffice it to say that +1 on casting is better than on dispel.

Thanks. It's been a while since I did the comparisons. Their cost is really equal to the +1 casting bonus. You take that points value out they cost the same as an empire mage. I just looked it up (got off my lazy duff) the +1 casting is 40 points (at least in the high elf book). A high Sorceress is 215 pts. while an Empire Wizard Lord is 175... 40 points more. At least at lord level, not so sure about hero level, my DE book is in the trunk of my car right now and I;m not about to go trudge through the rain to get it.

So actually, idf most +1 items cost 50, then we're actually getting a bargain at only 40 points.

Metallurgist · Post by **Metallurgist** » Sat Oct 12, 2002 12:01 pm

Dragon9 wrote:Thanks. It's been a while since I did the comparisons. Their cost is really equal to the +1 casting bonus. You take that points value out they cost the same as an empire mage. I just looked it up (got off my lazy duff) the +1 casting is 40 points (at least in the high elf book). A high Sorceress is 215 pts. while an Empire Wizard Lord is 175... 40 points more. At least at lord level, not so sure about hero level, my DE book is in the trunk of my car right now and I;m not about to go trudge through the rain to get it.

So actually, idf most +1 items cost 50, then we're actually getting a bargain at only 40 points.

Yep, that's what I was thinking! IMO, magic is one of the few things we druchii actually do better than any other army! Ok, maybe lizardmen will be stronger in the magic phase, but that's only fair fluff-wise + they need a big fat expensive toad, while we get a beautiful, scantily clad female! So much better, isn't it?

About the HE +1 to cast: this is the equivalent of 50pts in other armies since HE get a discount on magic items.

-Metallurgist

Post by **Thanee** » Sat Oct 12, 2002 12:19 pm

Yep, the DE Sorceresses are not only the most beautiful, but also among the most powerful casters. Their cost is fair, I think. Now, if we only had a few enchanted items to support this...

Bye
Thanee

Redemptionist · Post by **Redemptionist** » Sat Oct 12, 2002 4:29 pm

agreeance on the coolness of the +1 to cast but what about when u want a scroll caddie, ur paying 40pts for an abilty u dont want, thats empire mages have an adavantage, they can be a scroll caddie for very cheap, but stil on the offensive only slann can stand up to DE magic.

Druchii Magic...As good as it should be?

Is Dark Elf magic as powerful as it should be?

Druchii Magic...As good as it should be?