wd battle report

[Newbiedruchii]

What happened in this month's WD DE vs. Chaos battle report? Who won? Was it close?

[Dark elf lord]

DE and it was close

[Fallen angel]

Of course, DE had an extra 500 points, using the two appendix lists. Great way to show the power of the DE.

Fallen Angel

[Thanee]

I found it quite interesting nonetheless. Sure, the battle report did nothing to prove or not prove anything, but it was a nice read. Gav's tactic wasn't even all bad, altho he did a lot of mistakes, but they were nicely compensated by the other guy who did even more mistakes!

One thing I really couldn't understand, tho, was why the Chaos player had a Spawn instead of a Fiend of Slaanesh. He even had the extra points left over!!! Every other unit (which has the option) had the Mark of Slaanesh, but the Spawn was just a sucky regular one. And then he even complained at one point about how slow that thing was... Doh!!!

The article of Paul Sawyer includes another mini battle report 750 points Chaos versus Dark Elves. That one's also pretty fun (the whole article series (started 2 or so WD issues back) is great, one of the best articles in WD currently IMHO).

Bye
Thanee

[Leithel and odd]

Yeah I found it pretty interesting as well. I liked the scenario too.

[Daorsainn]

I also liked it, but mainly because it was a good display on how to theme a battle, something I think people tend to forget. It relates one of the reasons that I can't be a Gav hater, from my observations of him he thinks in terms of the story aspect of the game and just wants to enjoy the game. In those terms the two alternative army lists fit very well with the battle. However, I did find it interesting that in pairing those two lists he covered the inherent weaknesses of each. The city list lacks a lot of calvary choices, forcing it to be more static than the general list, while the patrol list lacks rank and file leaving it vulnerable to the charge, as rank and file troops do much better at holding up units. He essentially removed both these problems and played a straight dark elf army just with city guard. Clever.

[Elvenknight]

They should really get some expirienced players and stick by the point limit. Otherwise it is only there to show a few tactics and to fill space. They did it for a Necron v Dark Eldar report and it worked out well. Just wish they did more of them.

[Jeremy]

I just don't understand some of the things Gav gave the characters; Ring of Hotek, standard of slaughter, wouldn't those points have been better spent on something like more knight, a cold one for the noble. Yet he still won.... hmmmm....

[Gaz taylor]

They should really get some expirienced players and stick by the point limit.

They could but the hobby isn't about that. Not everybody is a tactical genius and also not everybody sticks to a same set point limit for both armies. It just makes everything abit more intresting!

I just don't understand some of the things Gav gave the characters; Ring of Hotek, standard of slaughter, wouldn't those points have been better spent on something like more knight, a cold one for the noble.

Just goes to show that Games Designers aren't the tactical geniuses that everybody expects them to be. They aren't they are somebody who enjoys the hobby like us but happens to get paid for it!

[Crimsondeath]

They could but the hobby isn't about that. Not everybody is a tactical genius and also not everybody sticks to a same set point limit for both armies. It just makes everything abit more intresting!

I disagree here - 99% of the games played between opponents are of equal points values. And most of these would be 'pitched battles', with some other scenarios from the rulebook thrown in occasionally. The simple reason is that it's the easiest way to keep things fair.

Just goes to show that Games Designers aren't the tactical geniuses that everybody expects them to be. They aren't they are somebody who enjoys the hobby like us but happens to get paid for it!

This kinda shocks me really! If they aren't tactical geniuses, how on earth did they qualify as a Games Designer? I would expect all GW Games Designers to be very competent WH players, otherwise I really question their ability to design the game properly...

[Dark Alliance]

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Just goes to show that Games Designers aren't the tactical geniuses that everybody expects them to be. They aren't they are somebody who enjoys the hobby like us but happens to get paid for it!

This kinda shocks me really! If they aren't tactical geniuses, how on earth did they qualify as a Games Designer? I would expect all GW Games Designers to be very competent WH players, otherwise I really question their ability to design the game properly...

I think this maybe illustrates a point made under a different post ( gamesday / "what gav said") that perhaps GW are understaffed and as they have so many projects they are working on, and trying to get finished, some jobs are maybe only being half done. IMHO. They can't become as expert as we would expect them to be 'coz they have so much to do! Not that I condone this action.

I think I have just said the same thing twice! Doh

[Gaz taylor]

I disagree here - 99% of the games played between opponents are of equal points values. And most of these would be 'pitched battles', with some other scenarios from the rulebook thrown in occasionally. The simple reason is that it's the easiest way to keep things fair.

True but I would find it very boring if they only covered pitched battled same points games. I would expect it of a new army to to a bit of showcasing but otherwise it's nice to see something different!

This kinda shocks me really! If they aren't tactical geniuses, how on earth did they qualify as a Games Designer I would expect all GW Games Designers to be very competent WH players, otherwise I really question their ability to design the game properly...

Couple of examples......

a) Do computer games programmers and designers have to be the best players in the world to make great games? No they don't but it helps.

b) Do Car designers have to be rally supremos to design a great car? No, but it helps.

At the end of the day, a games designer doesn't have to be a tactical genius, but it helps. A games designer just needs to have a fairly good knowledge of the rules, be creative, and able to communicate their ideas across to other people. I think that sums up most of the involved in games dev at the studio!

[Crimsondeath]

True but I would find it very boring if they only covered pitched battled same points games. I would expect it of a new army to to a bit of showcasing but otherwise it's nice to see something different!

Fair enough, though I don't fully understand the point of using 2 unofficial army lists (See, you can have fun using unofficial army lists too!).

Couple of examples......

a) Do computer games programmers and designers have to be the best players in the world to make great games? No they don't but it helps.

b) Do Car designers have to be rally supremos to design a great car? No, but it helps.

At the end of the day, a games designer doesn't have to be a tactical genius, but it helps. A games designer just needs to have a fairly good knowledge of the rules, be creative, and able to communicate their ideas across to other people. I think that sums up most of the involved in games dev at the studio!

a) Programmers, not at all. Designers though, should be very competent at their game to hope for achieving some semblence of balance in what they're designing.

b) Not really the same thing, but that's why car companies have experienced test drivers (often former racing drivers) to help develop their cars.

The main issue I have with the Games Designers at GW is their lack of consistency. Compare Dark Elves, High Elves, Skaven and Chaos to see what I mean...

[Draichlord]

I'll give it credit as a fun read, but to me, it was just another broken promise/lie from Thorpe. Does anyone besides me remember him promising to show how DE should be used in the next BR with DE. Instead, he combined 2 unofficial lists and used 2 generals. The 1st general was to help bolster the first 1000pts to keep them from running off the table and the 2nd general to control stupidity of 2 cold one units(which were core choice). He had 2 forces,but still one army.That means one general. It's very obvious he still has made no attempt to work with the army he wrote the book for. And what does that lead you to beleive about the chances for any NEEDED revision of our list?

[Adreal_the_immaculate]

i liked the report, though it doesn't show the strengths of the druchii but meh, oh and that chaos chariot conversion was that ever sweet . I also like the nobel cxonversion, that gave me ideas for my nobel on dark peguses

[Gaz taylor]

The main issue I have with the Games Designers at GW is their lack of consistency. Compare Dark Elves, High Elves, Skaven and Chaos to see what I mean...

And what do you mean? If you mean that DE are a bit substandard compared to the other books, then yes I agree. But then again on the topic I've hyjacked ( ), I've tried to point out some of the reasons why the book is they way it is. Other than that I've got no idea what you're on about!

I'll give it credit as a fun read, but to me, it was just another broken promise/lie from Thorpe. Does anyone besides me remember him promising to show how DE should be used in the next BR with DE.

Yes I heard something about that, BUT he was showcasing the forthcomming DE list from the new Annual out later this year!

It's very obvious he still has made no attempt to work with the army he wrote the book for. And what does that lead you to beleive about the chances for any NEEDED revision of our list?

As I've pointed out, he was showing off the new DE appendix lists. As for him writing the book, again on my hyjacked topic I pointed out that he didn't 'really' write it but ended up having his name put on it as he took over TP's job, when it was rushed out to get it in the shops. As for a revision for the list, there will be one but not until the bulk of the army books are out, and then I suspect it'll be done in a simular way that the 40k DE and DA codexes were done.

[Crimsondeath]

The main issue I have with the Games Designers at GW is their lack of consistency. Compare Dark Elves, High Elves, Skaven and Chaos to see what I mean...

And what do you mean? If you mean that DE are a bit substandard compared to the other books, then yes I agree. But then again on the topic I've hyjacked ( ), I've tried to point out some of the reasons why the book is they way it is. Other than that I've got no idea what you're on about!

Ah, OK then - let me clarify:

The point I was making was that there is little consistency between the army books (possibly due to them being released at different times and written by different people).

Look at the High Elf book - the author states that although HE's only have T3, they get cheaper magic items to compensate them for this. Huh?! What did the DE's get?

The Skaven book just flaunts so much of the main rulebook, it is amazing! Troops with Hatred *and* Frenzy. Shooting into combat. Hero's in the rear rank. etc. etc.

Chaos - what more do I need to say? An entire army that is Core, including chosen Chaos Knights with 2 Strength 5 attacks...

No consistency at all between those army books - and I thought that 6th ed started off really well with Empire, O&G and Dwarfs all being quite fairly balanced with each other. It's a real pity it went downhill from there...

[Gaz taylor]

Too be honest, I don't agree with you. Overall I think the books are fairly balanced (although the DE one does stand out a bit! ) and I don't have a problem with them. I'm sorry to say this (in case you find it insulting), but do you recive a thrashing off the above armies, which is why you feel like this?

As for chaos being able to have a army that is all core, I think it may have something to do with stuffing some of the comp maddness some tournaments seem to have gone.

[Crimsondeath]

Too be honest, I don't agree with you. Overall I think the books are fairly balanced (although the DE one does stand out a bit! ) and I don't have a problem with them. I'm sorry to say this (in case you find it insulting), but do you recive a thrashing off the above armies, which is why you feel like this?

That's OK, if everybody agreed on everything, the world would be a boring place.

And no, I don't feel insulted by your question: To answer it simply, "No" I don't receive a lot of thrashings (I hand out more than I get normally), I came to those opinions by reading the other books and evaluating what I saw there.

[Gaz taylor]

That's OK, if everybody agreed on everything, the world would be a boring place.

Too be honest I think this sums up the consistency problem you feel! If all the books were the same or simular, the WFB world would be a boring place!

Glad you didn't feel insulted as you can pretty much garantee that most whinges about army lists is that the whinger has been beaten a fair few times by X list. I had to ask to make sure!