Executioners....are they worth it?
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- Bane of ulthuan
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Executioners....are they worth it?
Been interested in building an army around the Executioners for some time now (i.e Highborn with Executioner's Axe, a large unit of Executioners, and any units that fit into their fluff.)
The only thing that's holding me back is (as the topic suggests) are they actually any good?
Fair enough, in a unit of 20 (5 models per row) with a Draich-master you've got a potential 6 Killing Blows. Odds are at least one of those will land and take out an enemy, and the great weapon Draichs also help. However, it would seem with their light army that as soon as the enemy retaliates you're going to be carrying your Executioners mangled remains off the battlefield.
Does then, the Strength 5 (is that right?) Killing Blow aspect outweigh the getting murdered at the first sign of retaliation aspect?
Thanks in advance.
The only thing that's holding me back is (as the topic suggests) are they actually any good?
Fair enough, in a unit of 20 (5 models per row) with a Draich-master you've got a potential 6 Killing Blows. Odds are at least one of those will land and take out an enemy, and the great weapon Draichs also help. However, it would seem with their light army that as soon as the enemy retaliates you're going to be carrying your Executioners mangled remains off the battlefield.
Does then, the Strength 5 (is that right?) Killing Blow aspect outweigh the getting murdered at the first sign of retaliation aspect?
Thanks in advance.
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They are a flanking force
If possible, try to use them as a flank (or rear!) charging force. If the enemy is engaged from the front, as in a Cold One Knight charge that failed to break the enemy unit, they are excellent for breaking the stalemate. The Hydra Banner and the Standard of Slaughter work well with them. And they look so cool...
- Leithel and odd
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This might do better in the tactics forum, but IMO the Executioners are a great unit when used well. I wrote some tactics up in the tactics forums and there are plenty of other posts there, some positive some negative.
Do a search for Executioners in the tactics forum and see what I mean.
Do a search for Executioners in the tactics forum and see what I mean.
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- Linda lobsta defenda
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you use witchelves right? they have even worse save
i think people are a bit too obsest with the "can't survive when the enemy strikes back" not many of our regiments can!
though personally i havcen't used execs yet i am seriously tempted to do so. it is only the cost that makes me think twice. and not cost in points cos they are cheap! 11p? that is a bargain in my book, but cost in money.
but like all our units they need supporting help but they should be well worth their points
i think people are a bit too obsest with the "can't survive when the enemy strikes back" not many of our regiments can!
though personally i havcen't used execs yet i am seriously tempted to do so. it is only the cost that makes me think twice. and not cost in points cos they are cheap! 11p? that is a bargain in my book, but cost in money.
but like all our units they need supporting help but they should be well worth their points
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- Grogsnotpowwabomba
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I am also a fan of Executioners.
I don't know about building an army around them, but they are definately an effective unit.
They are a unit that hits at S5 for only 11 points. Most people don't take into account that they are relatively cheap for the potential damage they can inflict.
They are fragile, but as a Dark Elf general you should be used to using fragile units anyway.
Banner of Murder or Standard of Slaughter can really help them alot.
I don't know about building an army around them, but they are definately an effective unit.
They are a unit that hits at S5 for only 11 points. Most people don't take into account that they are relatively cheap for the potential damage they can inflict.
They are fragile, but as a Dark Elf general you should be used to using fragile units anyway.
Banner of Murder or Standard of Slaughter can really help them alot.
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They are great for flank attacks, always taken them in units of 10. When they are a unit of 20 my opponents targets them with artillery or missile fire. I guess they look scary, or perhaps they know the exec's weak save.
Remember against serious artillery, everything dies, no matter what armour they wear, and I have thus found execs quite usefull against any opponent who takes great weapon-armed dwarves. In fact they are extremely usefull since even with heavy armour the saves tend to be negated on both sides when a great weapon is used. Therefore you are not paying for useless heavy armour (heavy armour is also useless when handguns are used). Plus dwarves have such slow init that you always get to go first. (Unless of course the opponent is smart enough to equip with shields and hand weapons, but the execs kick against those also.)
I like to use them in combo with any unit that may have to charge a uber unit containing a general from the front. I use the execs to flank charge, hopefully on the side with the general. In fact the last game I played the executioners killed a targeted Black Orc Warboss with killing blow! It saved my unit of corsairs as he was killing 4 a turn at least.
Use them like anything else, intelligently and in combinations. Like linda said, they are actually quite cheap for what you get.
Remember against serious artillery, everything dies, no matter what armour they wear, and I have thus found execs quite usefull against any opponent who takes great weapon-armed dwarves. In fact they are extremely usefull since even with heavy armour the saves tend to be negated on both sides when a great weapon is used. Therefore you are not paying for useless heavy armour (heavy armour is also useless when handguns are used). Plus dwarves have such slow init that you always get to go first. (Unless of course the opponent is smart enough to equip with shields and hand weapons, but the execs kick against those also.)
I like to use them in combo with any unit that may have to charge a uber unit containing a general from the front. I use the execs to flank charge, hopefully on the side with the general. In fact the last game I played the executioners killed a targeted Black Orc Warboss with killing blow! It saved my unit of corsairs as he was killing 4 a turn at least.
Use them like anything else, intelligently and in combinations. Like linda said, they are actually quite cheap for what you get.
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- Draichlord
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As my name implies, I'm a big fan of them too. When you are building an army around them consider taking an assassin inside the unit (large block of 20+) and screening them with harpies and terrain. Dark riders and shades help them quite a bit too. How can you resist the models? A sorceress you can count on to get the first 2 spells off also helps. The biggest thing is protection from missile fire when building this army. Try 2 dark rider units, 1 corsair, 1 big unit exes, 1 small unit exes, 1 shade, 1 harpie, 2 bolt throwers, assassin, level 4 sorceress, fill in the rest. you can delete small unit of exes and take a chariot.
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Draichlord wrote:As my name implies, I'm a big fan of them too. When you are building an army around them consider taking an assassin inside the unit (large block of 20+) and screening them with harpies and terrain. Dark riders and shades help them quite a bit too. How can you resist the models? A sorceress you can count on to get the first 2 spells off also helps. The biggest thing is protection from missile fire when building this army. Try 2 dark rider units, 1 corsair, 1 big unit exes, 1 small unit exes, 1 shade, 1 harpie, 2 bolt throwers, assassin, level 4 sorceress, fill in the rest. you can delete small unit of exes and take a chariot.
So true.
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thanee: true but they still strike first on the charge. and we all know that getting the charge is THE most important thing with druchii. so does it really matter?
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Thanee wrote:Yes it does, as you will not always break a unit on the charge.
Witch Elves still keep up a good fight, when they do not break the enemy. Executioners just die in that case.
Bye
Thanee
not really as you never send them in alone. and with a noble in their ranks he can flatten some guys before the execs
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Thanee wrote:Yes it does, as you will not always break a unit on the charge.
Witch Elves still keep up a good fight, when they do not break the enemy. Executioners just die in that case.
Bye
Thanee
Thats why I use them in small groups of 10 as flankers in combo with spears/corsairs for destroying tough units, at which they excell b/c you are at least getting +5CR to start. (+3ranks, +1 outnumber, +1 flank) and they do lots of damage against anything that may strike back on your corsairs/spears with damage enough to negate or weaken your CR if you were to use a flanker of corsairs/spears. They are better than the chariot because you can get more wounds/attacks for your money, IMHO. Thus you can generally break a tough unit right away unless you're really unlucky. If not at least you can lap....
Of course they suck head on against even weak infantry. That's obviously where the witches excell. Except in the case of low init, great weapon bearing, heavy armour troops, ie: dwarfs. They kill them nicely.
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Linda wrote:not really as you never send them in alone. and with a noble in their ranks he can flatten some guys before the execs
Well, certainly, but that won't work well always. I'd still put my bet on the Witches (even without a character), unless you go up against heavily armoured opponents.
Bye
Thanee
langmann wrote:Thats why I use them in small groups of 10 as flankers in combo with spears/corsairs for destroying tough units, at which they excell...
I usually use Dark Riders as flankers.
Executioners are nice, and surely can be used effectively, but in any case, there is a unit in our army, that fits their role better, I think.
Bye
Thanee
Put an Assassin with rune of khaine and manbane and a battle standard with the hydra banner. War banner is also useful. Note that this unit took a charge from Black Knights and Won Oh and make them 6 or 7 per rank. Most folks dont expect this. (learnt that the hard way 14 attacks back from unit of flipping HE Spears )
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Thanee wrote:langmann wrote:Thats why I use them in small groups of 10 as flankers in combo with spears/corsairs for destroying tough units, at which they excell...
I usually use Dark Riders as flankers.
Executioners are nice, and surely can be used effectively, but in any case, there is a unit in our army, that fits their role better, I think.
Bye
Thanee
Not all the time, as sometimes its nice to know that with WS5 S5 you'll have a good chance of getting through heavily armoured guys. I have had DR come in on the flank, attack, kill only a few and get demolished by the strikeback, ruining my CR. I've had better luck with 10 execs in this role. Of course DR are best for most things, execs come in when you really need a crunch. Its thier role. When I have a tough nut to crack (ie: some dwarf regiments), they're the boys I bring.
I think putting the assassin here is overkill. Put him in the weaker unit of spears at the same side as the execs flanking come in. Then you have a really good chance of ruining his strikeback on all fronts... plus there is a lesser chance of the spears all getting killed than the execs by some kind of missiles...
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Thanee wrote:Well, certainly, but that won't work well always. I'd still put my bet on the Witches (even without a character), unless you go up against heavily armoured opponents.
Bye
Thanee
well nothing always works well you know
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- Fallen angel
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Personally, I find that for the same points a Knights is far superior to a unit of executioners, more speed, more armour, more attacks, fear.... overall a better deal. The downside ofcourse being stupidity, but I can live with that.
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fallen angel wrote:Personally, I find that for the same points a Knights is far superior to a unit of executioners, more speed, more armour, more attacks, fear.... overall a better deal. The downside ofcourse being stupidity, but I can live with that.
Fallen Angel
Yes but not quite the same cost for 10 execs, unless you are going to get a unit of five knights with no command (banner, musician, dreadknight). I agree to a point, I like to have my knights get around flanks and rears right away, busting through weak units. Along with dark riders for flanking. I don't like them waiting up for a unit of corsairs or whatever to catch up. I like to team my units up with combinations, ie witch elves with spears, corsairs with execs etc. so I can get the benefits that elves reap fighting in co-operation.
Once the knights get around, well...
Plus you don't always have that option. Some armies have knights as well, which invariably get the charge on something of yours if they are not going after your knights or vica versa. Its nice to have those armour cracking execs ready to flank on your turn when your unit takes the charge and hopefully holds.
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I've also used a large spear unit (24=6x4)with the banner of Nagarrythe against heavy cav Bretonnia as bait, flanked by 2 units of 12 exes each. Spears won't break, take charge better than corsairs and then hit Bret lance formation in both flanks with exes. Watch knights die..mwahaha. Have harpies handy to run 'em down....or dark riders.
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