Psychological Warfare....

Baffled · Post by **Baffled** » Fri Apr 16, 2004 3:35 am

I totally agree, I was playing one game against a scary beast army. I was full of strong monsters and a couple of herds, i had a couple some shooting but proved totally innefective. (I was empire BTW) As his army got close it was closing around one flank and a strong force was also coming straight at me. I thought i was doomed but was detirmined to win so i charged a large unit of ogres or minotaurs (i cant remember) coming right at me. But when i broke though i line i was able to turn the whole battle around.

No matter how hopeless it may look you should always be able to win, even if you need a bit of luck :lol:

and keep setting up traps and using tactics thoughout game and dont just move because you have to. Like you said, an opponent thinking he is sure to win probably wont be playing at his best.

Great post BTW
-kieran

Imrael · Post by **Imrael** » Fri Apr 16, 2004 3:47 am

For my part, I think one of the most important aspects is to have a plan of some sort at every movement phase. (Not necessarily the same one, since circumstances will change). THis helps you look and feel purposeful.

When I lose, I generally get into a state where I cant think of an answer to the overall "problem" of winning. In those cases prehaps its best to think of a way of doing one job (break that unit of sword masters) and hope that the habit of purpose will spread.

Also, IMO its useful to think about reasons for losing/winning. Most opponents will talk about how things look from their point of view (particularly if they win!) Learning from losing makes for stronger play. The bad news is that you may have to lose regularly for a while to get enough lessons!

Mornedhel · Post by **Mornedhel** » Fri Apr 16, 2004 4:00 am

i think this is right. you must at all times look for a way to win. if you have few troops left or are in a bad position, you can still make the best of it and you can always try to outmanouver the enemy so his number or his stronger troops won´t be effective. this is even more true for DE, as they are extremely effective when it comes to manouvering and tactics.

Lewton · Post by **Lewton** » Fri Apr 16, 2004 4:33 am

I find that thinking I'm going to lose makes me play better. If I'm in a very strong position I either get over-confident and sloppy or become very cautious and miss opportunities. When I think I'm losing I become more risk-prone, more willing to gamble and that's when I pull off the most daring feats.

Teech · Post by **Teech** » Fri Apr 16, 2004 7:32 am

Playing with confidence and a positive attitude is all. Having a haughty sense of humour and a quick riposte to an opponents jibes works. Rolling dice interminably whilst your opponent is thinking about his next move and asking him questions about some other subject are excellent distractions. The need to control is a personality trait and it may hide insecurities. Often one person dominates the other in some degree in asserting control over the situation. Who talks the game with assurance often calls the shots. Success breeds success. It is as true in wargaming as it is in life generally. :twisted:

Reika · Post by **Reika** » Fri Apr 16, 2004 9:58 am

Imrael wrote:For my part, I think one of the most important aspects is to have a plan of some sort at every movement phase. (Not necessarily the same one, since circumstances will change). THis helps you look and feel purposeful.

This is something I agree with. I usually try to start planning my turn after my opponent's movement phase. Yes, there will be some variables with what units remain combatworthy and what don't, but I find that I can usually burn through my movement and subsequent phases pretty quickly. I've even had someone comment that they thought I'd had some master plan during the entire battle, when in fact I was improvising

I don't know how much effect on the battle it has, but I find myself retaining the initiative more often, now that I try to present a confident front.

Quinn · Post by **Quinn** » Fri Apr 16, 2004 10:34 pm

One thing that I think is critical from my experience (I havn't been playing Warhammer for very long, but I've played miniatures for over twenty years) is don't get 'hung up' over any particular unit. This may sound strange, but I can't even count the number of times I've seen players lose a unit that they are emotionally attached to (whether it's a particularly awesome paint job, their 'first unit' or the unit that they figure will be dominant on the battlefield) and their game totally collapses.
This has happened to me, but it doesn't happen anymore ( at least not that my opponent is aware of !lol!

), because I just don't let it! The old saying: "For want of a nail a horse was lost, for want of a horse a knight was lost...etc. ad nauseum... is true. No single unit is neccesarily more important than any other, as has been stated here already, have a plan in mind and be flexible and able to adapt to the loss of units and the change of circumstances.
Oh yeah, make sure you destroy that amazingly painted unit of Dragon Princes while you're at it.... :twisted:

.
//quinn

Prince of shadow · Post by **Prince of shadow** » Sat Apr 17, 2004 12:01 am

I find that monsters and flying creatures often scare the opponent. Espeacially creatures like manticore, instead of using them to fight you can make him threatening the flank on one side which the opponent would try to block out your monster. IF he does not you just fly to the back and hit him. :twisted:

Often in battles i used shadowbalde to threaten my opponent, preventing his heroes from joining the regiments and become a juicy food to my dark riders. Nice post you have there:).

I played a battle where i fought a chaos player with the tzzentch lord on the chaos dragon the most cheesy army. Haha he was over confidence and he stood infront of my reaper bolt thrower and blew fire into it !lol!

in the end the battle came to a draw as i annihlated the rest of his army.

I think psychological warfare takes a very big role too in warhammer.

Lordmalusmark · Post by **Lordmalusmark** » Mon Apr 19, 2004 4:16 am

Hell no. I have failed to meet dice that have cared just how good i think im going, cared what i think i can do or not. If you can make your opponent skip his phases he is either an idiot or doesnt care. Im afraid this isnt anything like yugio my friend.

Shadowkiller venomblade · Mon Apr 19, 2004 1:20 pm

i agree with quinn, once i was playing with my new second rbt vs chaos. first turn it shot 2 or 3 warhounds. next turn i shot 4 out of 10 knights with 1 rbt. he surrenderd. i told him not to, he still had 6 knights an exlated deamon, 16 chaos worriers and al his heros intact. he still surendered

i do think pscology affects the game, especialy bluffing and over confidence .... if you have a good attitud you can arrive much farther

Perfectly_dark007 · Post by **Perfectly_dark007** » Wed Apr 21, 2004 8:14 pm

i agree you must pull through and never give up hope, even when things look real bad. even the 'suicidal' type moves you may pull off in desperation often work out ok, just out of luck, or your opponent wont expect it (eg if you have a mage within charge range of one of theirs, charge!)

Sheth_kynth · Post by **Sheth_kynth** » Wed Apr 21, 2004 9:27 pm

this is what you do if you want to play some mind games with your oppenent...befroe the batttle begins point to his biggest strongest unit and say in a very mean and crazed voice this unit will die the first and the fastest hahahahaha.....then jstu never atack it and dodge it the whole game he will frak out and think you got something under youyr sleeve but yuoll jsu tbe killing all of his other things and he ill still be worried about his most expensive unit (the strongest unit he has)

Lord_korael · Post by **Lord_korael** » Wed Apr 21, 2004 9:45 pm

A good attitude makes dice roll 6s. Try it sometime

Svart · Post by **Svart** » Thu Apr 22, 2004 5:04 am

1) Never say things as "oh I'm gonna lose this game anyway" - if you say it, you'll loose

2) Always hope to win (even if your chances are small indeed)

3) About scary units... Yes, flyers scare the opponent... But what I've found is that the most scary unit for the opponent is... THE CHAOS SPAWN! (Especially breathing one, I really don't know why). Opponents become scared of it and start making mistakes!

Sneaky the ii · Post by **Sneaky the ii** » Thu Apr 22, 2004 4:50 pm

My favorite tactic in psy-warfare is at the moment of setting up the gaming table and taking out the units, I take out of my box a assasin and ask my oponnent if he knows the rules of these miniature. If he doesn´t I explain them to him, if he does I just say "oh" and leave the miniature lying around. My trick is not to take a assasin in my army but to take the mini, so I don´t pay in point for him but my oponent will think I have one. When the game end normally my oponent will ask my why I didn´t use him, to which I respond "I didn´t have him in my army, I was just asking you if you knew the rules for him...

Kou'vas · Post by **Kou'vas** » Thu Apr 22, 2004 5:03 pm

MrFallenone that's a disgusting trick!! but very very amusing

Well done! :lol:

ha ha

Eeeeron · Post by **Eeeeron** » Thu Apr 22, 2004 5:16 pm

I used to do that in 5th ed, take an assassin model and just let him sit on the table edge for the entire game unless I decided to use him, keeps your opponent guessing.

Even if you are hideously losing a game, don't surrender there may be some valuable tactical lessons still to be learnt from the game.

Drakken · Post by **Drakken** » Thu Apr 22, 2004 5:25 pm

Okay, I agree with the idea of not giving up on a game till your wiped out or its over, but not the whole idea of psyching your oppenant into forgetting a phase. I make it a point to always allow my oppenant to fix small mental errors (like forgetting to move a unit way off in the far corner of the table), provide they stay small and its not constent. I think of it as politeness, especially if its a two-way street.

As to not giving in on a game, I've lost count of the number of times a game has been decided in the last 2 turns regardless of how it looks. Several members of my local group actually hate it, those wonderful 4-800 pt swings at the end. They happen, often I find, especially with Dark Elves (where plans might take a bit longer to develop due to combat inadequacies). Case in point, Baltimore GT last month: Bottom Turn 4, I had 6 of my last 9 Units left on the table fleeing, and had no real organization to my center battle-line (I actually ran out of room to put fleeing units it was so bad). A few successful charges, a lot of rallies, some good shooting, and a bit of skill (as pulling it out), and I walked away with a 226 pts Major Victory...

Perfectly_dark007 · Post by **Perfectly_dark007** » Thu Apr 22, 2004 10:15 pm

Yes! give the impression (without actually saying so) that you have shadowblade somewhere in the game, even if you don't. Oh and when they bragg about some really cool character or unit, just say, "yeah, but i got a nice little surprise for him/her/them"

Hedning vlos · Post by **Hedning vlos** » Thu Apr 22, 2004 10:16 pm

I recently started playig Warhammer. My friend has at least 3 full armoes I just have mu Druchii. We are playing 500 pt battles till I get my bearing. He keeps switching armoes against me. It was getting frustrating, but you are right your only chanve is to keep your head. The only games i win is when I use flanking tactics to take out his heroes.

By the way Corsairs always seem to win combats. for some reason they are always GREAT! They do better than my whitch elves.

I have also had much luck with Harpies for flanking purposes. I just wish i could have a hero join them for added punch.

"may your sword stay wet!"

Kiwi · Post by **Kiwi** » Thu Apr 22, 2004 10:23 pm

I played a game against skaven, and just to psych out my opponent, after setting up my army, I placed Shadowblade on top of the box as if he was hidden and in the game. Then grabbed a piece of paper and wrote something down. Fortunately he didn't notice i wasn't rolling to see if he was revieled or not.

I won the battle and at the end of the game he asked why i didn't reveal him and where was he. I showed him the paper with "not in the game" written on it. He hated me.

Baffled · Post by **Baffled** » Thu Apr 22, 2004 11:13 pm

not in the game" written on it. He hated me.

LOL thats evil man. Was he a friend before? :lol:

Also what quin said was right, ive had games where my expensive units get taken out or outmanouvered (sp? :lol:

) but somehow my units which i saw as weak points stepped up to make me proud and choose them again.

Warhammer is a game of number but never forget the luck of the dice, and remember a ranked up unit can beat a hardcore combat unit purely through combat res. Ofcourse it does help when they miss all their attacks and get nothing to combat res

-kieran

Kiwi · Post by **Kiwi** » Fri Apr 23, 2004 12:02 am

Baffled wrote:
not in the game" written on it. He hated me.

LOL thats evil man. Was he a friend before?

Also what quin said was right, ive had games where my expensive units get taken out or outmanouvered (sp? ) but somehow my units which i saw as weak points stepped up to make me proud and choose them again.

Warhammer is a game of number but never forget the luck of the dice, and remember a ranked up unit can beat a hardcore combat unit purely through combat res. Ofcourse it does help when they miss all their attacks and get nothing to combat res

-kieran

It was my brother in law, he spent the whole game playing as if shadowblade could come out at any minute in one of his units and slaughter his general or key units.

Baffled · Post by **Baffled** » Fri Apr 23, 2004 12:41 am

Didnt he wonder where that 360pts would be coming from? Ahwell some people are too lazy to count. I sometimes add up my opponents army in my head quickly to see if he has a crazy amount of magic items, which is usually either a scary weapon or save.

You should try it in a game under 2000pts and see if you can trick him. BTW were you already at your char limit with characters in play? or at least full up in lord choices? Im just wondering how bright he is :lol:

-kieran