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Malekith in the New Book 
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The Guiding Eye
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Arnold Layne wrote:
I would think Lord and Three either way. I also see Seraphon as an alternative, not an upgrade. Dragon and Chariot should be equally priced, equally powered. The advantage of the dragon would be flight and breath weapon, the chariot would be impact hits and Banner of Nagarythe. And the chariot would be a much better model.

I beg to differ, I think that the chariot should be a little cheaper in points than the dragon and to use up one less hero slot (Darkadon has it spot on: a Lord and 2 Heros in the chariot and a Lord and 3 when on the Dragon-as per normal dragon rules) so that malekith becomes a more flexiable option in armies - as the lord and 2 heroes it allows the introduction of an extra character - I don't like or enjoy less flexiable options such as having both options equally priced.

I love the idea of the massive cold ones - though points wise I wonder how much theyd be in relation to a black dragon? I see Seraphon as being a 370pt upgrade and the chariot being around 280 points - with crazy cold ones and banner included...

Just as another thought, but surely Malekith wouldnt steer the chariot, so how many black guard would crew the thing? (its gotta be the black guard manning that juggernaut - come on! ;))

- Beanz

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Sun Dec 30, 2007 1:10 am
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Arnold Layne
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Here's another thing. With four Cold Ones, you'd have to put them on two chariot bases, with chariot straddling them.

Also, 4 S4 hits plus 2d6 S5 Impact hits, is stronger than a dragon (it would be 2d6 because it's basically a double chariot). This thing would almost certainly cause Terror also.

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Sun Dec 30, 2007 1:41 am
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The Guiding Eye
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Arnold Layne wrote:
Also, 4 S4 hits plus 2d6 S5 Impact hits, is stronger than a dragon (it would be 2d6 because it's basically a double chariot). This thing would almost certainly cause Terror also.


you raise a valid point about it having to be on a larger base - perhaps merely having 2 super angry (and big!) cold ones pulling it would suffice and thus save the trouble of having a larger base - as for the rule of '2 chariot bases = double the impact hits' I'm not so sure; perhaps itd add an extra +1 impact hit ontop of the +1 from Scythes, but apart from that I'm not overly convinced.

Besides, the dragon has a longer charge range, can fly, has a breath weapon and is guarranteed 5 strength 6 hits at weapon skill 6 every round and has a 3+ armour save; and thats before pumping him (because he's Seraphon afterall).

I think the chariot would be cheaper than a dragon - normal cold one chariot is 95pts (before upgrades) then add 150 for the Banner of Nagarythe (altho that tbh is WAAAAAY overpriced, so lets make it 100pts for simplicitys sake - we can discuss about whether 100pts is too much another time) so it now comes to a total of 205pts, then add the fact that the cold ones are S5 with 2 attacks each and no stupidity (perhaps a +45 tops?) and then a couple of Black Guard for +20 pts (lowered because it wont be stubborn)

so it overall costs Malekith an upgrade of about 270pts, whilst Seraphon will probably cost in the region of around 370 (with perhaps +1WS and +1A because he's a BADASS Dragon); the extra 30% cost alone is enough to warrant a +1 hero slot IMHO

- Beanz

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Sun Dec 30, 2007 2:03 am
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Lately GW special characters seem to only use up a single slot, regardless of their upgrades/mounts ect. Shouldn't we expect the same?

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Sun Dec 30, 2007 5:30 am
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I don't think it. If their ever going to make some of the most badass characters ever, they'll have to be more than one hero slot. You can't imagine that Archaon himself would go for just one lord slot would you? I think that if they reduce Malekith to one lord slot, he'll be or extremely more weak than we like, or extremely more expensive. Either way, we druchii players will hate GW for it. It'll be bad for them to even consider it! :evil:

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Sun Dec 30, 2007 11:02 am
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All the Empire Special Characters use single slots. I don't know if it is the same with the High Elves but if it is then why should Malekith be any different?


Sun Dec 30, 2007 4:19 pm
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JayCee wrote:
All the Empire Special Characters use single slots. I don't know if it is the same with the High Elves but if it is then why should Malekith be any different?

Because he WAAAAAAAAAAY more badass (and older/more experienced) than Karl Franz or Tyrion/Teclis will ever be 8)

just a thought ;)

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Sun Dec 30, 2007 4:34 pm
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Tolkar of Har Ganeth wrote:
Either way, we druchii players will hate GW for it. It'll be bad for them to even consider it! :evil:


no matter what GW do to the new DE i think we'll still find something to hate them for :roll:

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Sun Dec 30, 2007 8:27 pm
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darigaaz wrote:
Tolkar of Har Ganeth wrote:
Either way, we druchii players will hate GW for it. It'll be bad for them to even consider it! :evil:


no matter what GW do to the new DE i think we'll still find something to hate them for :roll:

on an insane note: YOU BROKE THE CODE!!!

on a sane note: yeah Malekith needs a points drop or a survivability increase (or both) but if games workshop decide not the change his rules significantly then im not buying the new model.

on a completely random note: Beanz i think the blue in your posts gave me a headache
:)

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Sun Dec 30, 2007 8:55 pm
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So much cynacism! Think about this way: Our current book is so bad, I don't think there's anything GW could do to make it worse. There's no where to go but up! :D

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Sun Dec 30, 2007 10:38 pm
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Don't say that too loud! Just Don't!! You'll neverknow what might come from that kind of thinking!

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Sun Dec 30, 2007 11:09 pm
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Vallorn Deathblade wrote:
Beanz i think the blue in your posts gave me a headache

8)

I think your writing hurts my brain (which, just for the curious; happens to be the equivalent size as that of a small lesser striped siddlewick newt... ;)) a little bit too: lets keep it mutual! :D

Tolkar of Har Ganeth wrote:
Don't say that too loud! Just Don't!! You'll neverknow what might come from that kind of thinking!

:shock:

*touches wood*

- Beanz

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Last edited by Dangerous Beans on Sun Dec 30, 2007 11:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.



Sun Dec 30, 2007 11:22 pm
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Arnold Layne wrote:
Here's another thing. With four Cold Ones, you'd have to put them on two chariot bases, with chariot straddling them.

Also, 4 S4 hits plus 2d6 S5 Impact hits, is stronger than a dragon (it would be 2d6 because it's basically a double chariot). This thing would almost certainly cause Terror also.


I've not read previous posts but I'm wondering where you get that idea of 2d6 S5 impacts? O_o

A chariot, regardless of the number of creatures pulling it, remains d6 impact hits (plus scythes), and extra creatures also doesn't increase the Unit Strength.

Any chariot with 4 cold ones is still US4, US5 with a character on top.


Sun Dec 30, 2007 11:27 pm
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As far as I know, HE Tiranoc Chariots and Goblin Wolf Chariots never got extra impact hits from having extra horses/wolves, so why would a chariot with 4 cold ones get 2D6 S5 impact hits?

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Mon Dec 31, 2007 12:09 am
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Arnold Layne
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Fine. Just suggesting, because it's the Witch King's chariot, pulled by outsize cold ones (beanz suggestion not mine) and there's two extra not one, it ought to be extra nasty. An exception to the normal chariot rules. If you want to believe our King rides a normal chariot, then get me Shadowblade's address.

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Mon Dec 31, 2007 12:58 am
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So far only Tomb Kings have one item in their list that makes one chariot immune to "S7 destroys a chariot" hits.

If Malekith were to ride a Chariot, I believe he would need a rule of the sort, most likely a talisman also granting him a Ward Save, otherwise, its too easy to annihilate.


Mon Dec 31, 2007 1:53 am
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you know when it comes down to it the only thing that makes malekith bad is his armour of midnight. it they just make that 2+ ward save and thats it i would be fine paying the points but as it stands right now i wouldnt even take him if he was 600.

also i was thinking what if they made malekith his own price and then a choice of the chariot for one point cost and the dragon for another. now the play gets to choose the way he wants to field the witch king.

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Mon Dec 31, 2007 10:56 am
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@ Arnold Layne: actually dude it was me who brought up the discussion of the 'pimped out chariot' as a discussion point - I didnt come up with the idea of multiple/super cold ones: that was Tolkar's on page 3 of this topic...
Tolkar of Har Ganeth wrote:
I think he should have it's chariot, but wouldn't it be sweet to have it pulled by FOUR of those beautifull new cold one models.

I still think its a good idea, but it shouldnt cost him 3 hero slots: nor mind you, should Seraphon cost him so many... anyway, lets end that discussion tho bro as I'm sure you're pretty tired of it too! ;)
Darkblade83 wrote:
also i was thinking what if they made malekith his own price and then a choice of the chariot for one point cost and the dragon for another. now the play gets to choose the way he wants to field the witch king.

Thats exactly what we've been discussing for the last page dude - have a quick read :D

- Beanz

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Thu Jan 03, 2008 12:29 am
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@ Dangerous Beans
My ideas for Malekith and his chariot are buried deep back in this forum. (Page 2 or 3)

I wrote him up with the Karl Franz Option idea in mind. So apart form the extreme flexibility of Malekiths Convayance...

I think He should be able to take out Tyrion... with magic. Teclis with Close combat. If you know you are going up against a Young Physically fit and annoited by his god warrior with lots of nifty magic crap for defenses... why would you go Toe to Toe? Malekith needs a personal spell that can pernetrate these super characters like Tyrion, Archaon (and my precious Grimgor) and soften them up real good before closing with them. (cast while engaged in close combat rule is a must)

Malekith needs the MR and Ward save to survive the blasts of Teclis and Slaan before crashing into them and cuting their hearts out.


Off topic ... Holy crap were they serious when they made the Ogre Kingdoms? My Lumpin Croops Fighting Cocks took out a Unit of Lead Belchers and a Man eater! Halflings > Ogres?


Thu Jan 03, 2008 1:22 am
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my major problem with amlekith isthat his amrour of midnight is crap. i play against skaven and chaos and i for one think its bull that a 80 point rattling gunner can easily waste the witch king. i mean being a 4th level wizard you would think he would have some defense against magical attacks. but when you look at the big picture you start to notice that the specail characters for the DE are worse then a comparable character then you can build. malekith is way worse then a highborn on a dragon and malus darkblade has a pathedic 3+ save when the dime a dozen coldone knights have a 2+ and you can get 3 units of them in under 2,000. what the heck is that! the only decent character is morathi but she is only so so as dark magic isnt that incredible as it currently stands. all in all it seems that as well as the standard army the special characters need a complete over hall. hope this next book dosent disappoint.

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Thu Jan 03, 2008 2:14 am
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Malus' armour is and should remain a simple 3+ IMO. He's a reckless killing machine with no consideration for the consequences of his actions. He should not be well-protected like the cowardly High Elves. Have him charge and kill enough for no return attacks instead! Best save there is.
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Thu Jan 03, 2008 4:16 pm
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being reckless doesnt dictate the amount of armor you will wear into battle. my buddy is a marine and is in my opinion reckless but do you tink he goes into battle without his armour on, i think not. recklessness and stupidity are to different things. no matter how reckless a person is they are usually not dumb enough to go into battle without the proper equipment.

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Thu Jan 03, 2008 4:42 pm
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I think Most Agree that Malus Armor is Crap. I think That it should give him Armor save 4, Ward save 4 and Magic resistance 3 And WHY the hell isn't the Most Noble of all Dark Elves wearing a frickin SDC? I mean seriously... they are precious gifts given by the leaders of the Black Fleet to almost any noble that ever sat astride a Dark steed... why haven't they given one of these to their frickin King? If I was malekith I would be so pissed at them!

Also in the fluff his burnt up body was sealed into the armor to protect it from the environment and help him recover.... perhaps a regeneration save as well? Nothing sick and insane like Tyrion... I wouldn't want our opponents Crying for a cheese grater to get rid of him... that puts us back in good old Hero Hammer...


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Quote:
I think Most Agree that Malus Armor is Crap. I think That it should give him Armor save 4, Ward save 4 and Magic resistance 3 And WHY the hell isn't the Most Noble of all Dark Elves wearing a frickin SDC? I mean seriously... they are precious gifts given by the leaders of the Black Fleet to almost any noble that ever sat astride a Dark steed... why haven't they given one of these to their frickin King? If I was malekith I would be so pissed at them!


Are you talking about Malus or Malekith here. Personally I don't mind Malus not having a ward save but why he doesn't have a Sea Dragon Cloak is just weird.

Instead of reflecting Malekith's skills with a blade or with sorcery I would like to see his rules reflect his quality as a general. Something like Karl Franz's rules would do Malekith very good and also keep him unique when viewing our other Special Characters. Let Morathi do the magicks and Shadowblade or Malus do the fighting.


Thu Jan 03, 2008 5:48 pm
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Scareypete wrote:
I think Most Agree that Malus Armor is Crap. I think That it should give him Armor save 4, Ward save 4 and Magic resistance 3 And WHY the hell isn't the Most Noble of all Dark Elves wearing a frickin SDC? I mean seriously... they are precious gifts given by the leaders of the Black Fleet to almost any noble that ever sat astride a Dark steed... why haven't they given one of these to their frickin King? If I was malekith I would be so pissed at them!
Malus is not a leader. He's an outcast, engulfed by a daemon that has made him a subject to Tz'Arkan' whim. People despise him, and he's not a seafarer. Thus, he has no Seadragon Cloak.

Malekith would have something better than an SDC though.

~ Nag

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