Malekith in the New Book

How to beat those cowardly High Elves?

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Darkadon
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Malekith in the New Book

Post by Darkadon »

I personally like Malekith as he is now, although he is a bit overpriced. I've used him in two tournaments and he never died once (dragon died once), but do agree that he needs more protection for the price. I would not make too many changes to him in the next edition. The only thing I would alter is as follows:

Circlet of Iron - In his magic phase, he steals one dispel dice from the opponent and is added to his personal pool of dice. In the enemy magic phase, he steals a dice from the enemies common pool of power dice and adds it to his pool of dispel dice.

Armor of Midnight - Make it a 3+ armor save at least, preferably 2+, but that might be pushing it.

Leave everything else the same.

In a 2k game, he now becomes more feasible as he can survive against magic attacks, but is nowhere near impossible to kill, and gives him just that little bit of extra magical edge. I mean, the guy practically invented Dark Magic, he should have the ability to wield it better than some run-of-the-mill sorceress.

What would you like to see?
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Post by Monkeylord »

Honestly, Malekith's character is a joke, in my humble opinion. He is absolutely NO match for Teclis or Tyrion, much less the both of them.

If he's included in the new book in his current form, I'll just freakin' puke.

In my humble opinion, I think The Witch King should be included as a special character in the new rule book, but generally only for posterity. I think he should be so expensive and the restriction so tight, that fielding him in a game less than 3000 to 4000 points would just be totally impractical (if not impossible). Malekith is one of the oldest and most powerful living mortals in the Warhammer world, and the leader of an entire nation. He has no business engaging in 'skirmishes' of 2000 points or less, where you are most likely only fielding 40-80 Dark Elves at once. It would be beneath him.

And I'm still a little iffy about his being mounted on a dragon at all. That was a 6th edition addition to the fluff that, in my opinion, was an excuse to sell a dragon model in the first place. (and a poor one at that, frankly. That model just doesn't do him justice)

I want to see him back on his uber heavy Cold One Chariot, riding into battle, whipping ass and taking names so he doesn't whip the same ass twice. But only if you can afford to play a battle large enough to be worthy of his ass-whoop-ness! :)
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Post by Venkh »

His biggest problem at the moment is the slot thing.

If you field him in 2k you end up with 6 casting dice, 4 dispel dice and no scrolls. Thats a magic phase i could hold off with my 1k list, never mind a 2/2250.

The same goes for bigger games as well because unless you take nothing but scroll caddies as your extra characters, you will still be well behind the curve in terms of magic.

So you probably pay 200pts for a magic phase that you are never going to be able to use.

Personally I think he should be published on-line or in White dwarf as a fluff character. Then you can add all the silly overpowered stuff he should have without ruining the book.
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Post by Dragonblade »

Good points...
I think Malekith should be made as a super character like a combo Tyrion and Techlis. He is the only mage that could match techlis in power (as the HE book states). He is the creator of Dark Magic and therefor I think he should cast Irresistible Dark Magic and the Circlet of power should work as the War Crown of Saphery. He should most defanently have a Dragon (the first, biggest and nastiest black dragon he could find). He could be an ok fighter, not having the best skills, the same tas he has now would be fine. The Destroyer is just fine as well. As for The Armour of midnight... The armour should give him a 4+ AS that cant be modified even if hit by an attack that normaly doesnt allow AS, and the regenaration skill. (A reason he still can be alive, elves not being immortal no more (HE book)). What do you think?
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Post by Rob the dark elf »

MonkeyLord wrote:

In my humble opinion, I think The Witch King should be included as a special character in the new rule book, but generally only for posterity. I think he should be so expensive and the restriction so tight, that fielding him in a game less than 3000 to 4000 points would just be totally impractical (if not impossible).


No offence, but what the hell would be the point in that! What is the pioint in making a special character that people cannot use! The biggest games I generally play are 2500 pnts. All that would happen then would be we would all log on to this very forum and biatch that GW made this unusable character for no reason, ruined some of our fluff and moan that they didnt do it to the toher armies - and we'd have a valid point. I definately see Malekith being a special character in the new edition and I think its a good thing. I like how the special characters are being introduced into the game more and more and how they arent this absurd points sink, nor are they this overpowered abomination like in the days of hero hammer. Empire and Goblins (and im assuming HE) have a wide choice of affordable and interesting special characters at their disposal and I think it really adds to the game.

I would love to field Malekith in my army but he's too expensive and too limiting in his current incarnation and I will never take him.

In the new book, why not just make him a Lord special character with the options to be mounted on a cold one or dragon, with some unique magic items, a couple of unique special rules and a boosted stat line. That way he would be affordable, powerful (but not too powerful) useful and interesting.
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Post by Darthken »

Id like to see him back on his chariot with some decent special rules and armour.

If they want a special character on a dragon bring back the beastlord Rakarth.
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Post by Monkeylord »

Rob the Dark Elf wrote:
MonkeyLord wrote:

In my humble opinion, I think The Witch King should be included as a special character in the new rule book, but generally only for posterity. I think he should be so expensive and the restriction so tight, that fielding him in a game less than 3000 to 4000 points would just be totally impractical (if not impossible).


No offence, but what the hell would be the point in that! What is the pioint in making a special character that people cannot use! The biggest games I generally play are 2500 pnts. All that would happen then would be we would all log on to this very forum and biatch that GW made this unusable character for no reason, ruined some of our fluff and moan that they didnt do it to the toher armies - and we'd have a valid point. I definately see Malekith being a special character in the new edition and I think its a good thing. I like how the special characters are being introduced into the game more and more and how they arent this absurd points sink, nor are they this overpowered abomination like in the days of hero hammer. Empire and Goblins (and im assuming HE) have a wide choice of affordable and interesting special characters at their disposal and I think it really adds to the game.

I would love to field Malekith in my army but he's too expensive and too limiting in his current incarnation and I will never take him.

In the new book, why not just make him a Lord special character with the options to be mounted on a cold one or dragon, with some unique magic items, a couple of unique special rules and a boosted stat line. That way he would be affordable, powerful (but not too powerful) useful and interesting.


Because then he is just another playable character that doesn't actually reflect his role in the warhammer world. Dark Elves have plenty of other interesting special characters that would make battles fun and interesting: Tullaris, Rakarth, Malus, Hellebron, Morathi, Shadowblade, etc.

And it would be awesome to actually SEE his stats, and how powerful he is. I wouldn't want him to just be mentioned by name, and then never see what his table top representative would be. But I just don't think it's appropriate for him to make an appearance on the table top very often.

I say given him stats, items, abilities, and points that make him impossible to take in a 2000 point battle. Then have Forgeworld do a fantastic model for him that is truly a display piece.

This way, in friendly games of 3000 to 4000 points, you CAN play him, and wow your opponents with how powerful he is, or be like me, and just collect the model as a druchii enthusiest for the modeling aspect.


Right now, GW is fighting over whether to include his stats at ALL, because making a playable character that reflects his fluff would generally be too overpowering. They are discussing doing the "courageous" thing and not giving him any rules what-so-ever. While I don't want to see the Witch King on the battlefield very often, I certainly want to see his abilities quantified with playable rules.

My way, we can still field him if we want, but GW gets the satisfaction of NOT doing a half-assed ruleset for him like they did with 6th ed.

So in conclusion, our options would be:
1. GW does not include playable stats for the Witch King
2. GW includes stats for the Witch King that make him playable in 2000pt, tournament legal point battles... and he won't reflect his fluff
3. GW invludes stats for the Witch King that reflect his fluff, but restrict him to very high point battles.

My choice is #3. But that's because I've been playing Dark Elves for around 15 years, and am a bit of a purist. I love Malekith's story, and I want his power on the battlefield to be refelcted in his stats. And I just can't see that happening in a character that can be fielded in 2000 point battles. And I don't think GW can, either, hence their apparent internal debate.
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Post by Drainial »

I dont think Malikith should be in the new book, we can never have a usable charactor thats available in 2000 points (and if you hardly ever use him whats the point in having him) that will justify his stats and more than that it makes Malikith a joke. Just leave him as the black menicing figure in the background that could jump up and down on that chaos lord/greater deamon/skink chief with sword of might if he wanted to.
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Post by Monkeylord »

Drainial Shadowheart wrote:I dont think Malikith should be in the new book, we can never have a usable charactor thats available in 2000 points (and if you hardly ever use him whats the point in having him) that will justify his stats and more than that it makes Malikith a joke. Just leave him as the black menicing figure in the background that could jump up and down on that chaos lord/greater deamon/skink chief with sword of might if he wanted to.


I know, I know... Leaving him out WOULD be the courageous thing to do; but it would be hard to get over the satisfaction of letting your buddies read his rules and go "OMG no way!" "You've got to be kidding me!" "That's rediculous!" :)

Especially since we haven't had much to brag about since 4th edition. *sigh*
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Post by Drainial »

So let them scream over Tularis and let me not think oh dear I just got the king of all elves killed by a 100 point charactor.
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Post by Mostlyharmless »

from what I can tell, fielding Malekith is like fielding Sigmar or Nagash. It shouldn't be possible in a 2000pt game. I am in complete agreement with monkeylord. When Malekith takes to the field, the battle should be massive. a 2000pt game is just a skirmish. Hell, even my last 4000pt game with my woodies felt like a skirmish. Malekith wouldn't waste his time with a skirmish.

oh yeah, and I would love to see him in his pimp-mobile again. Nothing says "I rule the world" like a good set of wheels.
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Post by Drainial »

Yhea because riding a dragon is so last week :roll:
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Post by Fingol darkwater »

I always thought giving him four magic levels without making us pay for them would be nice. As far as a mount, I've grown pretty fond of Seraphon. The chariot was cool, but it's lost the exclusive flair of the old days.
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Post by Tasior »

I always thought about Malekith as a elven Archon. :twisted: That model is General (capital G)... maybe Witch King should be more mage than warrior but he should BE. Every enemy should feel respect seeing Malekith on the table 8) Now, he has some interesting items (Destroyer for example) but he doesn't look like most powerful Dark Elf on the World. :cry:

I don't know why, but I can't imagine him being on the chariot... sorry guys but I can't :roll:
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Post by Dggrj »

Being as terrified of magic as he is, we've all bemoaned the fact that he hasn't cooked up some more powerful protection. I would think he should get a rule counter to Teclis's or something, that allows him to dispel on any doubles and/or dispel IF spells, even. You'd think he'd focus all of his power into stopping magic targeting him (so maybe only if he's targeted does this come into play).

Does anyone ever use/see Lord Kroak, out of curiosity?
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Post by Drainial »

Yes and he is damnd powerful to, I have only played against him in 3000 point games though. The thing about Kroak is that he is at his best siting back surounded by gaurds and casualy obliterating the enemy troops where as Malikith is more visible and easier to target. Kroak is also harder to kill what with having tons of wounds and great wards that actualy work against magic.
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Post by Monkeylord »

dggrj wrote:Being as terrified of magic as he is, we've all bemoaned the fact that he hasn't cooked up some more powerful protection. I would think he should get a rule counter to Teclis's or something, that allows him to dispel on any doubles and/or dispel IF spells, even.


Just out of curiosity, but where did you get the idea that Malekith was terrified of magic? He is one of the most powerful and learned wizards in the world. A strange occupation for one that would be afraid of magic. :) Sure, Teclis rocked his world once, but that hardly constitutes a phobia.

Speaking of which: I, for one, would like to see the Witch King get his Circlet of Iron back. That used to be one of his signature items, and I always thought it strange that 6th edition dropped it from his inventory. In 6th/7th edition terms, it would probably give him 1 additional power dice and 1 additional dispel dice to use in the respective magic phases.
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Post by Morgil_deathbringer »

Malekith is one of the reasons I looked to Dark Elves in the first place, so if he isn't in the new book I'd be massively disappointed.

I think there are a couple of things that need changing on him though. Firstly, he needs some form of boost to magic. As someone has already said, you can make a High Sorceress more powerful than him - which shouldn't be able to happen.

I think he needs a reliable save. If you avoid the enemy hard-nuts with their magic items, Malekith's 2+ mundane ward save can be outstanding... but who wants to spend 1000 points on the King of all Dark Elves only to have him running around scared? He should be able to take on Tyrion in hand to hand. He should be able to duel Teclis with magic.

Either: + more to spells, or have more dice is a nice solution to magic. A more reliable ward save would lend him more survivability in combat. There's just too much magic stuff out there to make his current one worthwhile.
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Post by Dggrj »

@MonkeyLord: Sorry, terrified of being killed by magic, due to the voodoo/tarot/seer's/whatever prediction that he'd die at the hands of a sorcerer (isn't that how it goes?).
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Post by Ulric darksoul »

Morgil_Deathbringer wrote:Malekith is one of the reasons I looked to Dark Elves in the first place, so if he isn't in the new book I'd be massively disappointed.[...]



Malekith is not going anywere, as morathii is also staying. They are signature character to the DE as Tyrion and Teclis are to HE (And orion to WE, but they managed to kick Ariel out, 'cause the mini was aweful)
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Post by Lord ruerl of harganeth »

Well i hope they do make some decent changes, as like others have said, Malekith should be able to take on Teclis and Tyrion. He's the King of the Dark elves for crying out loud. My mate and i tested Him against Grimgor and Malekith was flattened before he'd even unsheathed his sword. 2+ ward save against non magical attacks? Not much help there. Although what was to be excepected? in SoC Archon beat Malekith and Grimgor beat Archon so its assumed Grimgor would beat Malekith.
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Post by Bum cheese »

Malekith needs some improvements, not many. His armour save needs to be stronger. Lets face it he isshithouse against other characters. His armour save is 5+ which is a joke because he doesn't get his ward save against magical weopons and magic. He can't even survive against characters half his points cost, take Tyrion for example, even if Malekith charged, with ASF Tyrion would kill Malekith rather quickly.
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Post by Saint of m »

A hundred points cheeper, with a better armor save, and one les hero slot. O hter then that, the serclet ideas sound fun. May he can get a +2 to cat instad of the normal +1 to cast with the other magic users.

If he dose get the OPTION of chariot, that might also bring his points down a bit as well.
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Post by Saint of m »

A hundred points cheeper, with a better armor save, and one les hero slot. O hter then that, the serclet ideas sound fun. May he can get a +2 to cat instad of the normal +1 to cast with the other magic users.

If he dose get the OPTION of chariot, that might also bring his points down a bit as well.
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Post by Monkeylord »

dggrj wrote:@MonkeyLord: Sorry, terrified of being killed by magic, due to the voodoo/tarot/seer's/whatever prediction that he'd die at the hands of a sorcerer (isn't that how it goes?).


Ah, ok. Well, I think that's more political paranoia than it is a fear of magic, per se. A wizard is supposed to kill him, yes, according to that rediculous prophecy that was introduced in the 6th edition book. (I think this was more or less a cover story for why they didn't have any male spell caster models available.)
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