Malekith in the New Book

Scareypete · Post by **Scareypete** » Fri Dec 07, 2007 7:08 pm

/agree with Live... Casting Magic in combat would rock.

They are bringing back a lot of the dead guys as special characters. Doesn't go well for fluff... Gorbad Ironclaw ha sbeen dead for centuries... why is he squaring off against yet another Emperor? of course you can always bring back Deamonic or undead characters because there is easy fluff to do so.

Malekith at T4 is already the toughest Elf in existance... I think T5 though it would be nice is wishfull thiunking beyond the realm of realistic (I knwo its a fantasy game) fluff. But How about MR 2, Ward Save vs shooting and magic missiles 4+, and a 3+ Armor save that cannot be modified by opponent strength or armor piercing weapons. Oh and Immunity to Killing Blow and Poison. Sure a Chaos champion, Grimgor Ironhide or some other Black orc lord... Greater demon... or some other pure combat monster will smack the crap out of Our king... but that is a fitting death if he was foolish enough to engage them in close combat without sending in a few lesser characters to soften them up first.

I know we want a super character for CC... but our Kings greatest strength is his Leadership and the fact that he is a badass sorceror who doesn't crumble liek a pringle chip in close combat. Our ways are not the brutal in your face slugfest ways of the filthy orcs and marauders. Our ways are through cunning, deception, swiftness and precision. A bad ass tank character doesn't suit us. If it did we would be skinny ogres.

Whobetta · Post by **Whobetta** » Fri Dec 07, 2007 7:54 pm

I have to say that the fact he is not the best at CC or Magic is good. But the ability to cast spells IN COMBAT as if he weren't is an awesome idea that definitely s hould be implemented. it would make him extremely powerful and therefor worthy of being our king and leader and also fluffy that he is not boring and watered down like he is now

Khel · Post by **Khel** » Fri Dec 07, 2007 10:58 pm

Not to mention they brought back Azhag the Slaughterer
I would think that Malekith having a millenniums to build up his defense against his weak points. I would find sitting in his Tower all day and night to be very boring, even if you where the King of elves.

I believe he should Have about MR 3 at his disposal and have a increased Strength value. The armor could be said to enhance his strength beyond compare. His Gauntlet could be a ignore armor saves weapon which causes D3 wounds when a successful wound occurs. His armor could make his normal strength value about 6-7.

Mr. anderson · Post by **Mr. anderson** » Sat Dec 08, 2007 12:31 am

@Khelmor: i agree with the millennium's of experience thing - after all our beloved witch king is almost seven thousand years old. of course i don´t have any comparison (does anyone know someone who is seven thousand years old we can ask?) but after that much time i think he should be reasonably good at magic (in the HE fluff it says that he matches teclis...) and after seven millennium's of training he would be reasonably skilled as well (even assassins have WS9 so why doesn´t he?).

just a few thoughts...

HUZZAH!

Spider_wells · Post by **Spider_wells** » Sat Dec 08, 2007 9:14 pm

Me and some friends were bored one day, and so we decided to do an entire Dark Elf re-write. We playtested it completely, over the course of a few months, and we also re-did the special characters. This is the Malekith we used, he was extremely powerful but also costly, though he is very points efficient.

I've explained some of the army rules that we've been using, including the new addition of Deathblow, which we added as the new anti-HE rule, and also disdain of lesser races, which the whole army had.

I know that this isn't a "post your own Malekith" thread, but we were very proud of this and so I just can't help it!

M WS BS S T W I A LD
Malekith 5 8 6 4 3 4 9 4 10

Pts: 700. May ride a Cold one chariot for +100pts, or may ride the Black Dragon Seraphon for +320pts

Weapons and equipment: Destroyer, the Hand of khaine, the Armour of Midnight, the Circlet of Iron

Destroyer and the Hand of Khaine:
The hand of Khaine is a brutal weapon, that can rip through any armour, and it's merest touch is death. With Malekith wields Destroyer, which can destroy even the most potent magical weapons. This combination of weapons gives Malekith +2 attacks, and all attacks are resolved at strength 6, ignoreing armour saves. If a model with a magic weapon is hit in Close combat by Malekith then you may choose to discount one hit and destroy it.

Armour of Midnight:
Malekith's armour is made of the hardest meteoric iron, and renders Malekith nearly invulnerable to mortal blows. Even mighty strikes from magical weapons are turned away by this black plate.Gives a 2+ armour save and a 5+ ward save, that is increased to a 3+ ward save vs non magical attacks. Also, only one wound may be taken from any single hit, any additional wounds are discounted, this includes killing blows and attacks from magical weapons.

Circlet of Iron:
This magical item is truly ancient, and contains powers that no ordinary mortal could fathom. Malekith is one of those few individuals able to use this relic to it's greatest extent. Whenever Malekith rolls to cast a spell, or dispel an enemy spell, he gets a free dice roll in addition to the other dice used. This dice can cause a miscast or irresistable force as per usual.

Special Rules

Master of Sorcery: Malekith is one of the mightiest sorcerers ever to have existed, and his depth and knowledge of magic is unmatchable by the feeble, lesser races. Even mighty Teclis is wary of his power, and entire armies have been annihilated at the will of the Witch King. Malekith is a level 4 wizard, who must always use Dark Magic. He get's +2 to cast, rather than the normal +1 for a Dark Elf spellcaster, always knows all six spells from the Dark magic lore, and generates a single additional power or dispel dice each turn, which must be used by him if it is a power dice. Also, Malekith ignores his first miscast every game.

Absolute Authority: Malekith must be the army general. Also, Malekith and any unit he joins is immune to psychology.

Lord of the Black guard: If Malekith is your army general you may take one unit of black Guard as a core choice.

Disdain of lesser races:
Malekith my re-roll to hit on the first turn of Close Combat, due to the intense disdain he holds for thos lesser to him (which is just about everyone).

Deathblow: if a Dark Elf model is killed in combat by a high Elf model before he gets to attacks, you may roll his attacks anyway, representing the Dark Elves sheer spite keeping him going for just long enough to hit back!

Havock · Post by **Havock** » Sun Dec 09, 2007 1:50 pm

darthken wrote:Id like to see him back on his chariot with some decent special rules and armour.

If they want a special character on a dragon bring back the beastlord Rakarth.

the easy way out: give him the option to pick whatever he wants.

Khel · Post by **Khel** » Mon Dec 10, 2007 4:22 am

I would love to see Rakarth in the new book, though we are talking about Malekith so I shall keep to him.

Yes, giving him the option would be a good idea, though I prefer him to keep moving around quickly plus not having him stranded if they blow away his ride with a cannonball.

Malikite · Post by **Malikite** » Mon Dec 10, 2007 4:36 pm

well teclis almost took him out, Nagira or whatever malus sisters name is almost took him out. He really gets owned by other casters doesn't he.

Teclis "almost" but didn't/couldn't everyone gets lucky from time to time. But I still think Malekith should not be as good magically as Teclis but I still think he should be able to kick his arse. I'm sure Malekith was distracted or got a little too confident cause he was winning, it happen. Don't think It will happen again.

As for this Nagira person I have not herd of this story before. (Now Im not saying it's not true) But I find it hard to believe that this person is still alive if she "almost" beat Malekith. In fact if this story happened, I'm sure there was somthing to it, not just a direct fight that would be firstly. Secondly I'm sure Malekith crushed her... And if he didn't then this is a very unusual story and I'm not really sure I can see it happening or even agree with it.

Was this part of the comics? granted I have read some weird stories and I can't exactly agree or even considering them as plausable. The one that comes to mind right now is the story where beastmaster trained a hydra so well that it won (not 100% sure if it won the whole battle) or did really well. So Malekith allows those beastmasters to enjoy the best of everything and after that Malekith feeds them to the Hydra....I believe this was a story in a white dwarf when the new hydra rules/different types came out.

Also another story where Malekith wanted his present mount (dragon) because when it hatched it killed off some other dragons (which was the seceret weapon for the DE) I don't think Malekith would be to pleased to see one of his dragon killing his other dragon. In fact that dragon would get the biggest beating.

Oh and lets not forget the story when Malekith got angry at Malus for winning a battle. He got angry because Malus's armies were doing so good and his own were doing so bad.

These are the few that come to mind that I don't even care for, and disregard (pretend like they don't even exists).

Sorceress · Post by **Sorceress** » Mon Dec 10, 2007 6:04 pm

masterofdarkness wrote:well teclis almost took him out, Nagira or whatever malus sisters name is almost took him out. He really gets owned by other casters doesn't he.

Yes but Mike Lee has also said that Malus Darkblade has the Sword of Khaine, that Malekith's personal bodyguard are the Endless and not the Blackguard and all sorts of other ludicrous fluff changes that should not be seen outside those novels!

Scareypete · Post by **Scareypete** » Mon Dec 10, 2007 8:24 pm

@ Spider_Wells

First off Where you Form mate? We could be cousins or something. (unless Wells isn't your last name)

I'm not terribly fond of your Malekith's stat line becuase of the wicked Magic Items you gave him making a coupel of those statts superfluos. (I knwo shouldn't use big words I cant spell)

M WS BS S T W I A LD Armor Ward
6 8 7 3 3 4 9 4 12 3 4

Pts, 885

Destroyer, May nominate any number of wounds from Destroyer to Oponents Magical items, Items struck by Destroyer are rendered useless and do not even function as their mundane counterparts would. (haha eat that magical heavy armor you're naked now!)

Hand Of Khaine, Any Unsaved Wound form the hand of Khaine inflicts 1d3 wounds instead. Hand of Khaine also Grant's Malekith Strength Up to twice his target's Toughness to a Maximum of 8.

Dark Spear of the Blood God, After one of her incursions to Lustria Morathi Returned with a hundred Slaves and all of their weapons. Among them was a Magical spear carried by a Human mercenary captian. The Blood of a Slaan Priest was used to fill the Witches Cauldron of blood and Spear was placed inside it. After the long ceremony and many slaves were thrown into the caudlron Hellebron Reached into it and retrieved the spear, Magically transformed into a perfectly balanced throwning spear of the darkest wood with Blood red metal Blade. Attempting to steal some of the favor away form Morathis Hellebron made a gift of this Spear to the Which king. Range 12" Once per Battle Malekith May Hurl his spear at any target he can see. He may Hurl it into Units engaged in combat, He may hurl it at any character and they may not use their "Look out Sir" roll. The Spear is Strength 6, Negates 2 points of Armor Save (as volley form RBT) Has the Killing Blow ability. If the spear is used against ranked troops and the first troop is slain it will pentrate remaining ranks as a bolt thrower.

Armour of Midnight, The ore to forge this Armour was Gathered from a Metoer and Tempered in the Blood of a Demon. I confers an Armor Save of 3+ that cannot be altered by Opponents Strength or Armor piercing effects. It also Confers a 4+ Ward Save vs Magical and shooting attacks.

Circlet of Iron, Crafted by the greatest sorcerors of Ulthuan before the Sundering this Crown grants Magic Resistance of 2 (MR2) and allows the wearer to Reroll any one casting Die or Dispell die with each spell cast. This can prevent a Miscast or cause Irresistable force.

Special Rules
Master of Sorcery, Malekith is a Level 4 sorceror He Must use the Lore of Dark Magic, He is not limited to the number of Casting Dice he may use to cast a single spell, His spells are cast at a total of +2 to his casting rolls. He Knows all 6 spells from dark magic, though he may still only cast a maximum of 4 spells per magic phase.

Rules With an Iron Hand
Must be the Army General. Leadership range of 18" instead of the usual 12" If Malekith is beaten in a Challenge his leadership radius is reduced to 6" Malekith and any Unit he joins are Stuborn

Lord of the Black Guard
With Malekith at the head of your forces one Unit of Black Guard may be taken as a Core Choice, Additional units may be taken as Rare Choices.

Eternal hatred of High Elves.
Malekith and any Unit he Joins Always Reroll Failed rolls to Hit against High Elves.

Precision Strike, (My Proposed idea for an AWR)
Dark Elves after centuries of Studying their weapons, Their Opponents and training to kill swiftly and efficiently Have Armor Piercing ability in Hand to hand and Ranged Combat. This reflects their intense study of their opponents weaknesses and where best to strike with their blade or Aim their Quarells. If their opponents have no armor save the Elves have devoloped techniques to twist their blades deeper even on glancing blows that would not have normally inflicted a wound... To reflect this Dark Elves Reroll Failed Rolls to Wound against opponents who have no armor save.

Mount of Choice...

Malekiths War Chariot. 250 Pts.
Malekiths personal Chariot is pulled to battle by Barded Cold ones with Terrible rage. They gain one additional attack in close combat each. After they score their first kill the blood dripping from their fangs and claws and the crazed howls in their eyes the chariot may now make regular Marching moves as the cold ones eagerly seek out their next meal. The Chariot has a 3+ Armor save and a 5+ Ward save. (eat that cannon balls) The Chariot Driver is armed with 2 Hand weapons and a Repoeater Crossbow

Malekith may alternately Ride A Black Dragon, Hydra or Dark Pegasus at the points value for A Dark elf High born in the army book.

Malekith Takes up a Lord and Hero choice in your army and If he takes a Black Dragon mount he uses an additional Hero Choice. If he chooses to ride in his chariot he uses up an additional Special choice and a second chariot cannot be bought with Malekiths chariot (normal chariots are 2 for one special choice, Malekiths chariot is far from nornmal)

Lordofthenight · Post by **Lordofthenight** » Tue Dec 11, 2007 4:03 am

Sorceress wrote:
masterofdarkness wrote:well teclis almost took him out, Nagira or whatever malus sisters name is almost took him out. He really gets owned by other casters doesn't he.

Yes but Mike Lee has also said that Malus Darkblade has the Sword of Khaine, that Malekith's personal bodyguard are the Endless and not the Blackguard and all sorts of other ludicrous fluff changes that should not be seen outside those novels!

No, he said Malus has the Warpsword of Khaine (which he actually does now, due to GW adding him to the armybook). The others are all true though.

The part with his sister is debatable - there was an entire contingent of casters on each side, it wasn't just a solo duel. And yes, she did die.

Darkblade83 · Post by **Darkblade83** » Sat Dec 15, 2007 8:29 am

in regard to darkadons post i think that for the points a 2+ ward without the stupid magic rule is more then fair for the points. i cant believe that they made a 945 point character that can be killed by a migic missile or any daemon and believe that to be fair for the points. i know that generally dark elves are all offense but malkith should without a doubt be an exception. he alone made naggaroth and the enire society i think that he should be more of a challenge to a L2 wizard if you ask me.

Sorceress · Post by **Sorceress** » Sat Dec 15, 2007 10:18 am

lordofthenight wrote:
Sorceress wrote:
masterofdarkness wrote:well teclis almost took him out, Nagira or whatever malus sisters name is almost took him out. He really gets owned by other casters doesn't he.

Yes but Mike Lee has also said that Malus Darkblade has the Sword of Khaine, that Malekith's personal bodyguard are the Endless and not the Blackguard and all sorts of other ludicrous fluff changes that should not be seen outside those novels!

No, he said Malus has the Warpsword of Khaine (which he actually does now, due to GW adding him to the armybook). The others are all true though.

The part with his sister is debatable - there was an entire contingent of casters on each side, it wasn't just a solo duel. And yes, she did die.

Erm, yes...

Mike Lee wrote:As to the Warpsword...as far as the stories go, it's the same thing as the Sword of Khaine. It makes sense from the standpoint of the graphic novel and the stories themselves, but Gav may have a different take on things as far as the game is concerned.

Post by **Rork** » Sat Dec 15, 2007 12:50 pm

Sorceress wrote:
Mike Lee wrote:As to the Warpsword...as far as the stories go, it's the same thing as the Sword of Khaine. It makes sense from the standpoint of the graphic novel and the stories themselves, but Gav may have a different take on things as far as the game is concerned.

It makes sense that he's walking around with the weapon of a god? Riiiight...

Demigods have really dropped in quality over the millennia, haven't they?

Lordofthenight · Post by **Lordofthenight** » Sat Dec 15, 2007 3:11 pm

Sorceress wrote:
lordofthenight wrote:
Sorceress wrote:
masterofdarkness wrote:well teclis almost took him out, Nagira or whatever malus sisters name is almost took him out. He really gets owned by other casters doesn't he.

Yes but Mike Lee has also said that Malus Darkblade has the Sword of Khaine, that Malekith's personal bodyguard are the Endless and not the Blackguard and all sorts of other ludicrous fluff changes that should not be seen outside those novels!

No, he said Malus has the Warpsword of Khaine (which he actually does now, due to GW adding him to the armybook). The others are all true though.

The part with his sister is debatable - there was an entire contingent of casters on each side, it wasn't just a solo duel. And yes, she did die.

Erm, yes...
Mike Lee wrote:As to the Warpsword...as far as the stories go, it's the same thing as the Sword of Khaine. It makes sense from the standpoint of the graphic novel and the stories themselves, but Gav may have a different take on things as far as the game is concerned.

Mike Lee also said Khaine is Khorne, so I'm perfectly willing to ignore everything he says. I'd advise you to do the same.

Eldacar · Post by **Eldacar** » Sat Dec 15, 2007 3:12 pm

It makes sense that he's walking around with the weapon of a god? Riiiight...

He doesn't have a clue what he's talking about, which is why I'm somewhat thankful that BL novels represent primarily an author's perspective of the WH setting.

EDIT: Oh yeah.

I'm sure Malekith was distracted or got a little too confident cause he was winning, it happen.

He didn't. Teclis basically overpowered him.

Mr. anderson · Post by **Mr. anderson** » Sat Dec 15, 2007 3:47 pm

i don´t think the BL novels should be taken as background per sé either, as Eldacar said: they represent the author´s perspective, not the unquestionable WH background (otherwise according to mike lee elves would have beards. and in the rulebook - which clearly is the only background that cannot be changed - it says that elves are completely hairless, except on their head - oh how i envy them

) and morathi would be handsome, rather than the most beautiful woman in the world

and i never read the word nauglir in our army book, nor did i read anything about the dark mother (i like the darkblade books though, if you ignore the bit about ugly morathis, dark mothers, hairy elves and nauglirs). my point is: if every single bit of fluff ever written by any random person would be taken into account we would have a very contradictive malekith. i think that he should be the most powerful character in the game he´s almost seven thousand years old, after all and thus must have a lot of practice! (finally we can have the *most* of something - YAY!) but he should also cost a lot, so that he is only ever taken in VERY large games - which is just fitting. and since GW tends to include an awful lot of special characters in the current army books i doubt that it would hurt a lot - we could take kouran, tullaris, shadowblade and hellebron at least, maybe even an über-malus or whatever. malekith would just be the über-monster we can boast about - you know like:
IF THE WITCH KING WAS HERE HE WOULD SHOW YOU WHERE THE FROG HAS ITS EARS etc.

HUZZAH!

Sorceress · Post by **Sorceress** » Sat Dec 15, 2007 7:48 pm

lordofthenight wrote:
Sorceress wrote:
lordofthenight wrote:
Sorceress wrote:
masterofdarkness wrote:well teclis almost took him out, Nagira or whatever malus sisters name is almost took him out. He really gets owned by other casters doesn't he.

Yes but Mike Lee has also said that Malus Darkblade has the Sword of Khaine, that Malekith's personal bodyguard are the Endless and not the Blackguard and all sorts of other ludicrous fluff changes that should not be seen outside those novels!

No, he said Malus has the Warpsword of Khaine (which he actually does now, due to GW adding him to the armybook). The others are all true though.

The part with his sister is debatable - there was an entire contingent of casters on each side, it wasn't just a solo duel. And yes, she did die.

Erm, yes...
Mike Lee wrote:As to the Warpsword...as far as the stories go, it's the same thing as the Sword of Khaine. It makes sense from the standpoint of the graphic novel and the stories themselves, but Gav may have a different take on things as far as the game is concerned.

Mike Lee also said Khaine is Khorne, so I'm perfectly willing to ignore everything he says. I'd advise you to do the same.

Which was the whole point of my original post... Nagaira defeating Malekith proves nothing about the Witch King's ability to handle other spellcasters.

Nightblade183 · Post by **Nightblade183** » Sun Dec 16, 2007 2:26 am

Malekith is as close to a god as you can get for any mortal in Warhammer. His point cost right now is about where it should be but you do need a little more bang for your buck. Having invented Dark Magic he should get +2 to all of his casting rolls, like Draganlord said the ability to take one dispel dice from the opponent and add it to his casting pool (maybe not the dispel part) and the dragon should be a little better. Also his AS at 5+ is a joke. If a dark elf near-god is going in to battle ten for Khaine's sake he needs the Armour of Midnight to have a 4+ save that cant be modified by strength though anything that ignores ASs still goes through. Also one more T to his stat line I mean come on if Malekith isn't worthy of a regular Dwarf's Toughness what has the Warhammer world come to. All of this and his current abilities at exactly 1000 pts seems fair to me and all other rules and abilities of his should be left alone. Yes he will be back in the next army book but will they change him for the better? We shall see...

Eldacar · Post by **Eldacar** » Sun Dec 16, 2007 5:17 am

i think that he should be the most powerful character in the game he´s almost seven thousand years old, after all and thus must have a lot of practice!

Every single Slann is older than he is. A number of Oldbloods are also older than he is. So no, he shouldn't be the most powerful. He should be appropriate for what he is supposed to be.

Mr. anderson · Post by **Mr. anderson** » Sun Dec 16, 2007 5:37 am

Eldacar wrote:
i think that he should be the most powerful character in the game he´s almost seven thousand years old, after all and thus must have a lot of practice!

Every single Slann is older than he is. A number of Oldbloods are also older than he is. So no, he shouldn't be the most powerful. He should be appropriate for what he is supposed to be.

maybe. but slann aren´t making deals with daemons. and they don´t fight in close combat. and if you sort of combine tyrion and teclis you get the most powerful all rounder in the game. and that´s what i was talking about.

HUZZAH!

Belial · Post by **Belial** » Sun Dec 16, 2007 9:20 pm

Nightblade183 wrote:Also one more T to his stat line I mean come on if Malekith isn't worthy of a regular Dwarf's Toughness what has the Warhammer world come to.

The warhammer world has come to not giving a lithe, elven body the sturdyness of a heavyset dwarf body. Just because he's an ancient evil badass, you can't just give him extra stats. Wouldn't make sense.

Artein · Post by **Artein** » Sun Dec 16, 2007 10:58 pm

His armour should give him more T, even 2 more....
I mean, Anointed can have 4T, Malekith is much more powerful

Solaufein · Post by **Solaufein** » Tue Dec 25, 2007 10:56 am

fielding Malekith is like fielding Sigmar or Nagash

Except of course that Malekith has been forced to run for his life on a number of occasions. He's probably no match for Tyrion (descendant of Aenarion just like Malekith except he has Asuryan's power within him) in fair one on one combat, and no match for Teclis in a magical battle. Tyrion is the greatest fighter in the whole world and his stats show it (S7 flaming, always strike first, 0+ armor save, 4+ ward, 4+ regenerate, MR2). Teclis on the other hand destroyed the Dark Master's entire demon army when Archaon attacked the Old World, with one spell.

Malekith should be a mix between Teclis and Tyrion, being quite powerful at both magic and offense, like a Tzeentch Chaos Lord. In addition, he should have some nasty magic items and an aura of leadership for Dark Elves near him (all units within 12" stubborn for example).

Mr. anderson · Post by **Mr. anderson** » Tue Dec 25, 2007 11:21 am

Artein wrote:His armour should give him more T, even 2 more....
I mean, Anointed can have 4T, Malekith is much more powerful

an anointed is mutated (as far as elven bodies mutate), and malekith would never allow the powers of chaos to mutate his body (although he probably wouldn´t mind if they could heal the burns he´s got !razz! )

HUZZAH!