Anti-Wood Elves

Kikker · Post by **Kikker** » Wed Dec 12, 2007 6:23 pm

I am a new Dark Elf general and I'm taking on Wood Elves this evening in a 1500 pt battle.

Any suggestions?

My initial thought was to go with a lot of magic (2 x lvl 2 Sorceresses) and maybe a middle of hand-to-hand troops (corsairs, executioners, witch elves). A couple of RBT's? I also have a chariot that I was considering using.

Does it make sense to not try to compete with fast cavalry and crossbow elves? Or should I go ahead and make a list around his and my common strengths?

Ripflag · Post by **Ripflag** » Wed Dec 12, 2007 6:40 pm

I havent fought WE with my DE's but with my Chaos all my small flanking units get demolished by shooting....
Corsairs look like a good bet, the dbl hw's and good shooting save will help alot. Normal crossbow elves are good if you can get them into the open, the trouble is if they are in the wood, they are impossible to hit. Withevles are good in that they are immune to pyschology, so you just have to reach the opponent but happens to be the hard part. Executioners dont seem that viable with the low armor...

The chariot is good but once again you have to him out into the open to charge something.

Chill wind will be your best friend, and take the wand as well, you can dominate them in the magic phase which will hamper their shooting phase.

Bad beast · Post by **Bad beast** » Wed Dec 12, 2007 8:02 pm

Witch elves will never see a fight until the woodelf player is ready to wipe them off the board, no save and frenzy means they are shooting and baiting magnets

executioners have a similar problem with being shot up until the wood elf player is ready to charge in and finish them off, but their save will help them a little bit

RXB's are actually really good against Wood Elves because of their poor save, and the fact that most wood elf units can't suffer many casualties, if you take them it's all about target priorities, i know the treeman is tempting to shoot at, but he's one of the few things in the list that can weather the shooting and keep coming at you, the trick is have your arrows ignore the forest spirits and focus on the elves use magic to deal with the Forest spirits and you should actually do alright

Drakken · Post by **Drakken** » Thu Dec 13, 2007 2:56 am

I wonder why everyone assumes all WE armies are shooting and spend all game hiding in woods? I have yet to face a WE army since they got a book that did that.....in fact, most of them are high mobility CC armies. They do Ali impressions, dance around and smack you senseless.

At 1500 pts, Magic is rarely a worthwhile investment, especially for Elves, just too expensive. Chariots and Mobility are your friends, he'll be mobile and force you to move. I see nothing wrong with DR (RBX aren't bad either here), just watch your placement.

Nightblade183 · Post by **Nightblade183** » Thu Dec 13, 2007 3:56 am

Depends on the army type you go up against I've played against more dryads than I could possibly fathom the Executioners are brilliant against them, anything with Cold Ones is pure domination against WEs (provided no Stupidity) Corsairs are also hold their own and then some in decent numbers in this case.

Don't use light cavalry or scouts against WEs invest as Magic Heavy as you can so you can at least control that aspect of the game.

RXBs and RBTs are effective against regular elves but not so mush against the T4 of Dryads. Hit Fast and Hard. I would do something like...

Lvl 2 Sorceress with Darkstar Cloak and Black Staff - 170
Lvl 2 Sorceress with Power Stone and Tome of Furion - 170

if you could add another Sorceress that would be ultimate but nontheless...

18 Corsairs FC - 205
15 Corsairs FC - 175
15 Corsairs FC - 175

18 EX FC - 228
8 COK FC - 277

1 RBT - 100

Total - 1500

Strengths - Strong Magic, Decent Manuverability, Strong Units

Weaknesses - Shooting is pretty weak, but Magic should easily make up for this.

Tactics- When going up against WEs you need to get to them before the shoot you to pieces. Use the COKs to haul ass towards anything logical. Use the units of 18 in conjunction with the units of 15 to deliver a crushing attack. Not many 1500 pt armies of Wood Elves should stand up to a list like this, just make sure that your COKs charge them rather than them charge you though if it's light WE cavalry I wouldn't worry about it either way. (I have yet to see a unit of WE light cavalry last one game let alone actually defeat an opponent in combat)

Raneth · Post by **Raneth** » Thu Dec 13, 2007 6:01 am

One of the few cases I'd actually recommend going Magic heavy in a <2K game. Magic missiles are just .T.e.h. S.w.e.e.t.n.e.s.s. against Skirmishers.

Saint of m · Post by **Saint of m** » Thu Dec 13, 2007 6:26 am

I have had two expiriances with woodeis. The first was in a castle seige aga battle where the two opposing forces infront of me were Empire and Wood Elves. My cold one Knights and Novble riding a coldone made short work ended up cahsing the dryads all the way accrost the board.

Woodies get an extra forest on the battle feild then whats already set up as a rule. They are also so at home in the woods and with their boys, that they don't suffer alot of penalties, if any. They also have few units that due well in close range, and even less that get rank bonueses.

So cold one knights because of two reasons: 1, Armor and lots of it. 2. Fear. This will cancle out the fear effect caused by Dryads and tree kin.

Corsairs are aslo a good mix becaus of their Sea Dragon Cloaks, so they get a good save when they get shot at.

If they have a Tree man, a normal hydra works wonder. Use it's fire breath, and let it have it. Be carful though, the guiy can't be harmed with Strength 3 attacks won't harm it, and even if you do, it has a bit of armor save that ward save!

Tizio · Post by **Tizio** » Thu Dec 13, 2007 8:48 am

I desagree with you...

Don't use light cavalry or scouts against WEs invest as Magic Heavy as you can so you can at least control that aspect of the game.

Magic missiles are very very good agaist WE, but light cavaly is startegical. How to menace and out manouvre those little unit of archers? DRs are also perfect to attract enemy fire.

Lvl 2 Sorceress with Darkstar Cloak and Black Staff - 170
Lvl 2 Sorceress with Power Stone and Tome of Furion - 170

if you could add another Sorceress that would be ultimate but nontheless...
ok, if could be possible, it will be great to have three Sorceress (maybe with Death magic)

18 Corsairs FC - 205
15 Corsairs FC - 175
15 Corsairs FC - 175

WHAT? there is room for two corsair units at maximum in 1500 magic heavy point, IMHO

18 EX FC - 228
8 COK FC - 277

8 COK are a point basket, but still, they are also very very important. I suggest to take 6 of them + a chariot

1 RBT - 100
the thing is...How to protect that very alone RBT? it wolud be better to have two of them, and still, WE are damn good in destroying war machines, if you ask me I'd rather go with the might Couldron of blood

Total - 1500

Strengths - Strong Magic, Decent Manuverability, Strong Units
Here we are! This army is very static. Sorceress will have to remain inside corsair units and you'll be flanked everytime of the day

Weaknesses - Shooting is pretty weak, but Magic should easily make up for this.

--

I'd get a pair of 13 warriors with schield and rxb.
one unit of 6 shades as bodyguard for one sorceress

ok, then you need leadership and/or fear, so COKs and COC.

and to add some punch, it could be strange, take a pair of 6 DRs, maybe with standards, or one unit of 15/20 corsairs with war banner. Both of them receive great benefits from the Couldron.

friendly
Tizio

Eddiewallie · Post by **Eddiewallie** » Thu Dec 13, 2007 4:52 pm

For the last few weeks my main opponent has been playing with his new woodelfs against my druchii. I have been using different army types ranging from all shooting/magic too virtually all cc and things in between.

The strange part is that beating the treehuggers at their own game is the best way too go imho, and thats shooting them down. If you can take out his archers early with rbt's, magic or harpies then he has too actually stop hiding or face your rbt's round after round.

I yet have too try fielding a hydra against his wooden giant cuz damn those things are tough. Ignoring it a long a possible has been my best tactic so far. You could try fielding a large unit of cheap warriors and park them against the Treeman. The cr should keep you in there for at least 2 rounds.

Let us know the outcome...

Soupman · Post by **Soupman** » Thu Dec 13, 2007 9:24 pm

Also, Lifetaker was meant to kill wood elves, it really shines against unarmored T3 elfs

Kikker · Post by **Kikker** » Thu Dec 13, 2007 10:57 pm

Epilogue to this story.

I forgot to mention that this was the opposing general's first battle with Wood Elves as well, so we were both trying to learn some of the intricacies of our respective forces.

I ended up with a "lots of magic list":
General = Noble carrying the Wand of Khairnon (sp?)
2 x Sorceress lvl 2 (Darkstar Cloak on one)

20 Corsairs
2 x 10 XB Elves
15 Executioners (I wanted to use the models)
10 Witch Elves (same)
Cold One Chariot
2 x RBTs

Without going through a detailed battle report (which would be evidence of my poor generalship), here are some brief notes.

We both had terrible leadership rolls the whole game (a shock since we both had Elves). My Cold One Chariot missed stupidity 3 turns in a row. On the good side, I panicked one of his Archer units, which ran through his 20 Eternal Guard and panicked them!! Unfortunately, they both rallied.

Let's see, observations.

Yes, Witch Elves are not so great against the Woodies -- I knew it would be that way going in and only took 10, but they were mincemeat.

Crossbows = good against Wood Elves. Move, long range and multi-shots and still was able to pick on his smaller archer units.

RBT = good against his fast cav (he took 3 small units). I think I panicked all three at various points with good volleys.

The overwhelming magic idea was great except for my poor decision to put one of the sorceresses in with a unit of 10 xb's. Guess where he tried to cause panic first. She fled, they rallied, then panicked again before I could have her leave the unit.

Moment of the Game for me: Right flank he's running Wild Riders and Glade Riders in towards my RBT. I set up to try to pinch them between the Witch Elves and Executioners. He chooses to charge the Witch Elves. He beats them, they run and he overruns into the RBT. Executioners wipe out his unit on my turn with their flank charge. Yay!!

Escape of the Game for me: One of the sorceresses wanted to pick off a cavalry model from a unit of 3 (so they would be < US5 ), so she broke away from her unit and cut through a forest to get a view of the unit. Next turn, Woodies shot 28 shots at her: -1 long range -1 single model -1 in forest and bad rolling meant only 3 hit and none wounded... woohoo, ninja arrow dodging.

Thanks for the input -- now to put some lessons to work.

Lord kanarik · Post by **Lord kanarik** » Fri Dec 14, 2007 1:21 am

if you can spare the points try getting 2 cocs, it helps mitigate the stupidity

Fleshcollector · Post by **Fleshcollector** » Sun Dec 16, 2007 6:07 pm

First of all, Woodies are a much tougher army than Darkies so to beat them you will have to rely on mad skill and a bit of luck to succeed. I've been playing the Wood Elves quite a lot for the past year or so and have an insight into their strengths, weaknesses, and style.

Wood Elves are more manouverable due to core skirmishers, multiple fast-cavalry, flying calvary, etc.

Wood elves are stronger in CC due to dryads, treekin, treemen, dragons, Alters, wardancers, and my personal favorite the Wildriders.

Wood elves shooting is more manoverable, accurate, longer, and stronger.

Woodelves are immune to psychology in the form of Wardancers and Forest Spirits who incidentely also cause fear and posses a 5+ ward save.

Wood elves can move terrain, blocking LoS, charges, and generally get terrain in your way.

Wood elves have very nasty surprises for those who venture into the forests and battle them there.

Wood elves have superior magic items to Dark Elves in items like Annoyance of Netlings, Amber Pendent, Helm of the Hunt, Moonstone of the Hidden Way, etc, etc.

If you beat a wood elf player then it is a testament to your skills. They have 3 AWR. (1.) Woodelves move through woods at no penalty. (2.) Woodelves suffer no movement penalties to shooting. (3.) Wood elves get a "free" tree equal to 6" in diameter. To win you will need to keep from getting outmanouvered so deployment is crucial. Also, knowing which units are potential bait and which are ItP is necessary to maintain an equality in movement because you will be at the disadvantage. You have no good answer to dryads except magic and rbt's. Dryads are an expendable and cheap units which will screen and/or target rbt's, DR, or just about anything you will throw up against him. Take em out quickly. I usually field 1 unit of 8 but to be mean will field 2 or 3 units of 8.

Wood elf shooting will thin down your ranks fast while outside your own rxb range. At 15" close range, Glade Guard hit on 3+ at STR4. Remember woodies suffer no movement penalties to shooting. I usually field 2-3 units of 10 and will eliminate most enemy support units including harpies, DR, rxb warriors, and shades. Wood elf scouts are a blessing to see because although strong in shooting, are overly expensive.

Wood elf magic is very specialized and predictable but still potentially very strong and influencing. If the woodelf general can move the trees around, even only once or twice a turn, he can dramatically reshape the battlefield with the extra free tree on the board and any others that might be there. Do not give a wood elf player free rein in the magic phase to your own peril. Some of their abilities, magic items, and spells become more powerful when within 6" of a tree.

Out of time.

[llct]kain · Post by **[llct]kain** » Mon Dec 17, 2007 9:29 am

Hi,

so negative as FleshCollector describes the situation with the woodies it is not :-) IMO the druchii have some very nice assets for fighting the WE, still they are are a hard challange.

Wood elves have superior magic items to Dark Elves in items like Annoyance of Netlings, Amber Pendent, Helm of the Hunt, Moonstone of the Hidden Way, etc, etc.

They have nice items - but we have also some nice things.
The one which I had much success are the livetaker - very good against their waywatchers and a very good ROI - around 1,5 dead waywatcher per turn :-)
Then all our magic weapons are nice because the remove the nasty wardsave, a highborn on DS with DoDP or GoP is a real thread to all dryad units.

Apart from this it works quite well not to field expensive troops against the WE, the basic troops are realy good.
The main problem of the WE is that they have (except the EG) nothing that could provide static CR. This means they have to win every (!) combat through kills - and this is the point where there weakness is.
You need enough long range firepower /hunting ability to reduce their firebase and to cut down the units to a size where they could not bring all the kills. A unit of 8 dryads could take a unit of 20 warriors, 5 will just bounce off...
If you are fielding things like un- or bad armored troops like executioners and witch elves you are making big gifts to the WE - and their superior firpower.

Nightblade183 · Post by **Nightblade183** » Tue Dec 18, 2007 8:57 pm

Yes armoured units like COKs are devastating to WEs they hardly ever die or panic from shooting 2+ AS and Ld 9 is sweet! Also they're fast and can get to the woodis relatively quickly. Also in small games a unit of five can wreak havoc one they hit. If you were to take two units of 5 each with FC and charge them simultaneuosly they can beat almost anything. Just make sure you don't do any stupid charges. IE Only charge into battles you know you are going to win. I would go for corsairs for infantry because of their save and in CC the own regular WEs. Dryads don't like magic missles or multiple units. Also units with good strength (anything with COs) tear them apart. I wouldn't try to outshoot him, it probably wont work and you can really pummel him in CC. Pick your fights and you will win. Good Luck!

Dangerous Beans · Post by **Dangerous Beans** » Mon Dec 24, 2007 1:16 am

If you're going magic heavy in your army and you're taking a level 4 mage then having the Tome of Furion and rolling on Shadow means a good chance of getting Pit of Shades.

This spell is INCREDIBLE against treeman.

My friend used to field an army with 3 in (Lord and 2 Rares). In one battle I killed all 3 by turn 3 with this spell: he's never taken a treeman again :twisted:

hehehe!!!

- Beanz

Nagathi · Post by **Nagathi** » Tue Dec 25, 2007 12:55 am

Drakken wrote:in fact, most of them are high mobility CC armies. They do Ali impressions, dance around and smack you senseless.

Heh, that made me smile

As a Wood Elf player, I can tell you what would be afraid to face in a 1.5k game against Dak Elves.

- Magic is not that bad. We got cheap and effective anti-magic, and also a lot (A LOT) of mage hunters and suicide chargers.
- RBTs would scare me. Eagles, Warhawks, Glade Riders and Wardancers just go poof whenever I face RBTs.
- Corsairs are annoying. Cood saves, lots of attacks and rather cheap.
- Monsters are always a tough one, unless the Asrai player brings a treeman.
- Knights. Asrai have always had issues breaking through armour, especially armour on steeds.

So a list against Wood Elves should be a tightly packed, dense army of cheap models with good saves. Asrai lacks ranks, and your shooting can easilly negate our rank breakers. So bringing units in blocks of 20 can help. MSU will be mostly outmanouevred anyway. Win by CR, expose no flanks, and kill the fast stuff first. Should go well.

~ Nag