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7th edition rule we can use to our advantage: 5 man rank 
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Corsair

Joined: Sat May 07, 2005 5:25 am
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I am REALLY sorry if this has been posted before but I just stumbled across it after moving my army around at home while lined up. Since 7th edition makes you put 5 men wide for rank, and many armies (and all calvery) are 25mm wide, that means many units will be 5 x 25mm and thus 125mm wide. Elves are on 20mm bases. 6 x 20mm is 120mm, so straight up we could line 6 men to 5 men. But add in corner-to-corner, we could have 8 men to 5 men. Yes it is a little pricey, but I figure that it may come in handy every now and then.

Again, sorry if this has been posted but I did not find it, but I will not feel bad if this is locked due to me being stupid.


Tue Dec 25, 2007 10:50 pm
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Rumour Lord of Doom
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I noticed this as well and therefore corsairs and witch elves always ranke up in 6's for me. 8 is just simply to hard to move around as is 7 and 6 seems perfect because it is still manouverable AND cheap!

-Rex

p.s. dont worry, even if everyone in the world has noticed this it could still start a very interesting discussion!

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Tue Dec 25, 2007 10:55 pm
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The Exiled One
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8 models will be 160mm wide, and wheeling them 90 degrees will take 9.8948 inches. They'd be practically impossible to manouevre around the board. Also, you cannot always expect seeing enemy units with a 5-model 25mm base frontage. So sometimes that 8th model is wasted.

For fluff and efficiency, I think units 6 models wide works best. And it'svery fluffy for a Slaaneshi player :)

~ Nag

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Tue Dec 25, 2007 10:58 pm
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Racso14 wrote:
I am REALLY sorry if this has been posted before but I just stumbled across it after moving my army around at home while lined up. Since 7th edition makes you put 5 men wide for rank, and many armies (and all calvery) are 25mm wide, that means many units will be 5 x 25mm and thus 125mm wide. Elves are on 20mm bases. 6 x 20mm is 120mm, so straight up we could line 6 men to 5 men. But add in corner-to-corner, we could have 8 men to 5 men. Yes it is a little pricey, but I figure that it may come in handy every now and then.

Again, sorry if this has been posted but I did not find it, but I will not feel bad if this is locked due to me being stupid.


yeah i noticed that to. it is a nice advantage but with a block 8 wide you end up rather move restricted. if you could force your enemy into a bottle neck so your unit only had to move straight then its a great play.

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Wed Dec 26, 2007 9:57 am
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@Nagathi: I thought the "sacred numbers" of the chaos gods only applied to 40k?

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Wed Dec 26, 2007 10:46 am
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Racso14. You`ll find that for a long time many Dark Elf Generals have been maximising their number of Attacks by running 6 or 7 model front Ranks.

Manouvering can be tricky, but for such a fragile Army, it`s imperative to hit the enemy VERY hard on the Charge. Hence, extra models in the front Rank. As a Dark Elf Commander, you do NOT want to be caught in CC for longer than the initial turn when you Charge. With an average AS of 5+ for our Infantry, and a mighty Toughness of 3, smashing the enemy on the Charge is essential.

You`ll also find many Dark Elf Armies forgoing Ranks when fielding small elite units like Executioners, Witch Elves, and Black Guard. It`s quite common to see units of say 10 Witch Elves deployed 7/3; that is to say, 7 models in the first Rank to maximise Attacks, and 3 models in the second Rank. This is in preference to fielding a unit of 10 in 5x2 formation. Sure, with 5x2 you get a +1 Rank Bonus in CR. So what. If you don`t carry the fight when you Charge, the old +1 isn`t gonna help you much when you get carved in subsequent turns of CC.

So yes. I`m in full agreement of taking advantage of our superior WS, I, and Special Weapon bonuses by maximising Attacks deploying extra models in the front Rank. It`s just a matter of getting the balance between lots of Attacks and manouverability sorted. As someone suggested, 6 models, or at most 7 is about right. 8 is just too unwieldly IMO.

Cheers.

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Wed Dec 26, 2007 12:25 pm
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well yes the sacred numbers did only have any effect in 40k, although not anymore it seems, but its still nice for fluff reasons to have a 6 wide unit of slaanesh devotees which is 6 ranks deep and part of 6 units etc etc

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Wed Dec 26, 2007 12:57 pm
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Shanti wrote:
@Nagathi: I thought the "sacred numbers" of the chaos gods only applied to 40k?
As almundis said, it only has/had a real effect in 40k (or so I'm told, never played it, never watched it, never intended to play it). But it's still the number of Slaanesh. And units 6 wide are efficient. And I like it :D

~ Nag

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Wed Dec 26, 2007 2:51 pm
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Corsair

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Yes, 8 would be odd to move around, so that wouldn't be smart.

But what about our shades and harpies, skirmishers which don't move in rank & file. I've seen many times skirmishers going into 6 and 7 frontage with models behind. Since skirmishers do not get rank bonus, there is no reason not to put 8 front if you can (against 25mm bases).

I'm just posting this to give us a little advantage. I know when I use harpies I will be putting 8 up front if I have 'em.


Wed Dec 26, 2007 10:28 pm
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I'm almost always using 7 models per rank for having more attacks.... 8 would be nice, 3 more attacks from Witch Elves....
but a bit too har to manouver for me


Thu Dec 27, 2007 12:03 am
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The Exiled One
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Racso14 wrote:
But what about our shades and harpies, skirmishers which don't move in rank & file. I've seen many times skirmishers going into 6 and 7 frontage with models behind. Since skirmishers do not get rank bonus, there is no reason not to put 8 front if you can (against 25mm bases).

I'm just posting this to give us a little advantage. I know when I use harpies I will be putting 8 up front if I have 'em.
Good thinking, but as far as I have understood it and experienced it, harpies do best in units of 9 anyway. That means the enemy needs to kill 3 to cause one of those nasty Ld6 panic checks. having 8 Harpies means that there will be a panic check after just 2 casualties. Not that I'd charge the front of s unit of 5 25mm models with my Harpies anyway (those models are usually Chaos Warriors, Saurus, Bestigors, massive orc regiments and knights of all kinds - nothing for a Harpy to pick at).

As for shades, I really don't want them in combat. And if in combat, I want them in combat against enemy war machines or in the flanks of enemy regiments while something better at fighting is engaged to the front. hence, keeping the unit small, cheap and expendable is better. I use units of 6 Shades.

~ Nag

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Thu Dec 27, 2007 1:26 pm
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In my Dwarf and Dark Elf Armies I have Always fielded Units 6 across. They are plenty manouverable and Most Cavalry units Will not go wider than 5. The models are too costly to put out in units of 11 or 12. (of course my Empire knights run 6 wide for just that reason. 4 Knights +General + BSB in front rank + 6 knights behind them.)

Usually I look at my opponents and decide if 7 across is better for my witch elves since I have 14 of them anyways. (sadly a few Fro-Elves)

you can always do your reforms as you get closer to close contact. If I cannot charge my enamy I usually halt 1 inch out of charge range or 1 inch within charge range and reform as needed to get flank charges or put as many in the front rank as I can.


Thu Dec 27, 2007 1:47 pm
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I also tend to field rxb units 7 wide, if they get charged they get 2 extra attacks which can sometimes negate the lack of ranks.


Tue Jan 08, 2008 5:14 pm
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The Exiled One
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Cadeyrn wrote:
I also tend to field rxb units 7 wide, if they get charged they get 2 extra attacks which can sometimes negate the lack of ranks.
I field them 7 wide with 5 in the back rank (if on a hill). Extra rank, higher ground, 4+ armour and an S&S reaction puts most enemy fast cav or flyers off from charging them.

~ Nag

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