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Uses for the Cauldron of Blood 

Cauldon of blood useful? or garbage?
Poll ended at Tue Jan 15, 2008 8:23 pm
love it! 22%  22%  [ 7 ]
it's ok... 59%  59%  [ 19 ]
garbage, pure straight garbage. 19%  19%  [ 6 ]
Total votes : 32

Uses for the Cauldron of Blood 
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Slave (off the Altar)
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Joined: Sat Dec 22, 2007 5:42 am
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ok so i just opened a brand spanking new cauldron of Blood bought off Ebay. I know i want to include the cauldron and am familiar with the rules for it but i wanted to know, are there any nasty combo's or tactics i should know about? what has your experience been with the cauldron?

regards,
druchiiannointed


Thu Jan 10, 2008 8:23 pm
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It's ok. It's effects are much needed in our list but the price and limited range make it into something you have to build your army around, rather than an army buff like it was intended.

As for cunning tricks, they are few and far between in our army. Unreliability is one theme of our army and the cauldron helps smooth out that unreliability a little, especially on attack.

It works best with units that have lots of attacks, so, witch elves, cav (even dark riders), chariots and monsters, especially the flying variety benefit the most from it.

The weaknesses are that it needs protecting. Even a unit of fast cav can kill the crew and a single unit shooting can do the same, so either deploy out of LoS or screen. Also, you need some way to force enemy troops into the 24" kill zone, so it will have limited use vs standard TK, skaven gunline, empire and dwarven armies as they don't need to come to you.

It is most powerful vs armies of poorly-average armoured infantry so other elves and undead (assuming they come into the zone, of course).

Probably 50pts overpriced but a gorgeous model so it's sometimes worth dusting off at 2000pts. Much better at higher points though, where it's not such a high proportion of your points.

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Thu Jan 10, 2008 8:45 pm
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It's true that it's pricey, and its range is limited, but still I love it. Dark Riders charging suddenly becomes quite damaging, Executioners' Killing Blow comes up more often, Spear Warriors turn into ruthless killers, Corsairs and Witches become more so.

So you don't have to load up on Witches just because you have the Cauldron, it works great with any unit that remotely whiffs of close combat potential. Yeah... that's basically every moving unit in the army. :)

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Thu Jan 10, 2008 10:52 pm
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It works quite effectively all things considered. The biggest problem with it is that its not something you can just drop into a list to help out. You basically have to design a list from the get-go to contain one....So its not bad, just selective.

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Fri Jan 11, 2008 12:59 am
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24" range and it doesn't move, if you don't out shoot your opponent then it is of no use

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Fri Jan 11, 2008 1:58 am
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I haven't used one yet. When I first started playing Dark Elves my friends read my army book and laughed at how naff the cauldron sounded. Everytime I want to put one in it just seems like too many points for not much in return, also looks quite flimsy for something that cant move and could be taken out by the lightest of units.


Fri Jan 11, 2008 9:14 am
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Slave (off the Altar)

Joined: Sun Nov 11, 2007 8:57 am
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A while ago I found a very informative article about the Cauldron, it might have originated from this forum (I searched for it again but couldn't find it). It is a bit large but I think it is quite good, and explains a lot. I had it saved in notepad so I'll paste it for u here, hope it helps u at least as much as it helped me.

Introduction/History of the Cauldron:

Using the Cauldron of Blood is quite a delight. At first glance, it may seem fragile and useless, but if a player sets out to create an army list designed to maximize its strengths, it can become a very powerful tool. It mitigates one of the Dark Elves’ largest weaknesses, which is wounding with their relatively high number of low strength attacks, and when used properly, also capitalizes on many of the other strengths of the Dark Elf army, including speed, high weapon skill, and Many Small Units (MSU) tactics.

First, a discussion of the Cauldron prior to the Dark Elf Revision, and how it has been improved by this revision, is in order. Before the revision, the Cauldron suffered from a small 18" Red Fury Zone (RFZ) and was very susceptible to missile fire and magic, due to the fact that all hitsfrom such attacks were allocated to the un-armoured Witch Elf crew. Even with their 4+ ward save against such attacks, they were easily dispatched by dedicated shooting. The Revision addressed these key weaknesses by increasing the Cauldron his Red Fury Zone to 24" and allowing for the randomization of ranged attacks between the Cauldron and its crew, just like a war machine. The 6" range increase may not seem like much at first, but when you consider that most battlefields are only 48" across; this is actually a fairly large increase in range. Now the Cauldron can cover up to 36" across the battlefield, if deployed the full 12" in from the back table edge (this will be discussed in full, later). The randomization of shooting hits has now made the Cauldron extremely resilient to shooting, as the Witch Elf crew now essentially have a 3+ ward save (randomization), followed by a 4+ ward save (not to mention rolls to hit and wound as normal). Barring extreme luck, an enemy will have to dedicate a disproportionately expensive portion of his ranged arsenal to destroying the Cauldron.

There are some very common misconceptions revolving around the Cauldron and how it should be used. First and foremost, many players feel that they need to accompany the Cauldron with large amounts of missile fire to “draw the enemy towards them”. There are many reasons why this line of thought is problematic. First, it causes generals to overemphasize missile fire in an army that really should emphasize close combat. With all the points dedicated to Reaper Bolt Throwers and Repeater Crossbow Troops, in addition to the Cauldron, there simply are too few points left to create enough close combat power to properly utilize the Cauldron. Secondly, when the Cauldron is deployed aggressively a full 12” out and to the centre in deployment, it will easily cover more than 50% of the battlefield, with most of the uncovered area comprising of the enemy deployment zone and the extreme flanks. Such a deployment ensures that most of the area where battle is likely to take place is covered by its effect. Lastly, most armies do not have enough ranged capabilities to be able to afford to sit back and not engage in combat and many of the more popular armies, such as Vampire Counts and Chaos, have next to no ranged capability. I have only ever found defensively oriented Dwarf and Empire armies to be capable of avoiding the Cauldron completely. Bear in mind that my intention here is not to discourage missile fire in a Cauldron army, but to show that it is not an essential factor in a successful list.

A second misconception is that the Cauldron will die to the charge of any unit that sneaks past your line. In my experience only dedicated combat units can reliably destroy the thing in one round of combat, as the high Weapon Skill, 6+ Ward Save, small frontage, and Unbreakable nature of the Witch Elf crew make them harder to destroy than it might seem on paper. Add to this Terror , the Hag’s ability to challenge enemy characters and champions to siphon attacks, and the option for the Hag to use Temple of Khaine artefacts, and you easily have the most difficult war machine in the game to destroy.

A third misconception about the Cauldron of Blood is that it is classified as a Large Target. A careful read of the rules will show that this is not the case.


Advantages/Disadvantages
The advantages of the Cauldron include:

- Allowing all friendly models and units to re-roll failed wounds on ALL ATTACKS in the first round of any combat within the Red Fury Zone (RFZ)

- Giving Witch Elves a 6+ Ward Save and allowing them to never lose Frenzy within the RFZ, as well as to regain lost Frenzy when re-entering the RFZ.

- Creating a threat and distraction (the Cauldron of Blood itself) that your enemy will either have to work very hard to destroy or ignore and just accept.

- Creating a zone of control that your opponent will be wary of violating. This edge can allow you to much more easily exert your will on an opponent and dictate the flow of the battle.

The ability to re-roll all failed wounds in the first round of combat is such an amazing advantage, for reasons obvious and possibly not as obvious. Considering the high Weapon Skill, Initiative, and volume of attacks in the Dark Elf army, this advantage is compounded even further. Even Chariot Impact Hits, monsters' attacks, and Killing Blow attempts can be re-rolled. A good rule of thumb is to envision your units being one point of Strength higher than normal in the first round of combat for their ‘To Wound’ rolls. Obviously, being able to create more successful wounds means, you are more likely to generate higher Combat Resolution scores in a fight and more likely win combats, and we all know that winning combats is how a game of Warhammer is most often won. It is almost like having a Warbanner in every unit within the RFZ. Such power also allows you to impose your will on an opponent. He/She will likely be wary of this ability, if not downright afraid of it, and may choose not to fight otherwise “obvious” fights in your RFZ. This reluctance and hesitation can be exploited very well by a cunning general. I have seen opponents become so irrationally afraid of what the Cauldron can do that they skip out on fights that they could win. The psychological impact this ability has on opponents is amazing. A reluctant enemy is an exploitable enemy. Never forget this.

Giving Witch Elves a 6+ Ward Save and allowing them to never lose Frenzy has a number of advantages that might not be obvious at first. Not losing Frenzy means that Witch Elves are able to retain Immunity to Psychology as well as their 3rd attack, thus making them more powerful in combat and immune to Fear checks, Panic , etc. Beyond this, it also allows Witch Elves to be immune to Autobreaks due to Fear and Terror, which is a very nice thing to have in one of our infantry units, as it can prevent other fleeing units from being run down by the enemy. Because of these advantages as well as for purposes of theme, I generally recommend at least one unit of Witch Elves in an army using the Cauldron of Blood.

Using the Cauldron of Blood can become an advantage to you in itself because of the stress it causes your opponent and his desire to destroy it, both for its seemingly easy-to-get high victory points and to eliminate the threat presented by the RFZ. Opponents will sometimes be so determined to destroy the thing that they will use more resources and effort to destroy it than they should. Others will think it easily destroyed and then realize that the Cauldron is more resilient than they originally believed. Exploiting such tendencies can lead to a significant advantage for you, if not victory itself.

The Cauldron is not without its downsides as well. First of all, it takes up a Rare slot, and this is often in itself a deterrent to many Dark Elf generals. The Reaper Bolt Thrower is a very popular choice amongst our generals, and they often find it difficult to give them up for anything else. I think that using a shooting heavy element in a list that contains the Cauldron is self-defeating, and thus the inability to take four RBT is not a huge disadvantage. However, I do know how popular the RBT is so I still list this as a disadvantage. The Cauldron is also quite expensive at 205 points, considering that it does no actual damage to the opponent in any way. As I have mentioned, unless you build your army intelligently to use the Cauldron to its fullest, it will be a waste of points. For this reason, I would not recommend the Cauldron in games of under 2000 points. Lastly, the Cauldron is vulnerable to enemy attack. Although it is not as frail as it might seem at first, it still is open to attack by a cunning or determined enemy. Especially dangerous to the Cauldron are enemy flyers, fast cavalry, tunnelling units such as Gutter Runners and Tomb Scorpions, and Dwarf Miners. Thoughts on how to best defend the Cauldron are provided in the FAQ later in this article.

Elements of Successful Use

Now that we are familiar with the Cauldron its abilities, advantages, and disadvantages, we can begin a discussion on the elements that make up a successful Cauldron of Blood based army. Note that for the remainder of this discussion, I am assuming that the reader is playing games in the 2000-2500 point range. Extrapolate accordingly. The first area of discussion is deployment . I have found that when in doubt, the best way to deploy the Cauldron is the full 12" out from your deployment zone and placed centrally in your battle line. This ensures that you will cover the maximum possible central areas of the battlefield with your RFZ and be able to use the Cauldron’s powers. Generally, unless you have some sort of trick up your sleeve or you know that your opponent will be coming to you quickly and aggressively, deploying the Cauldron as far out as possible is the best bet. If there are pieces of terrain that can shield the Cauldron from one or more angles, these are always a good way to secure it from attack. Anchoring your Cauldron in its front, flank, or rear in this manner can also help you set up traps against your enemy, as you will be more certain of their angle of approach should they foolishly decide to attack the Cauldron. There are also certain more cunning ploys you can use when deploying with a Cauldron. The first is to throw down your largest ranged attack threats or one of your tougher (and faster) combat units. This can often force your opponent’s hand in how he deploys, which will then allow you to deploy your Cauldron away from the centre in the hopes of ensuring that your opponent’s most valuable units are caught within you RFZ. Another trick to use, especially if you think you are going to deploy the Cauldron centrally anyway, is to deploy it first. This can often cause your opponent to second guess his own plan, deploy overcautiously, or even allow you to set up traps if you are the craftier sort. Another idea, proposed by The Word of Pain:

“Use some fast units (DR's & Harpies) to suggest a balanced deployment, then once you realise where the bulk of his army is going... place the Cauldron right on your deployment Zone, exactly 24" in from one side.... this will give you coverage of the vast majority of the board, but more importantly nearly the whole of that side of the board... in your first movement phase move that way with your fast elements and take down that half of his army, whilst the enemy re-positions the units on the other side...”

Multiple Small Units (MSU) tactics are a very important element of a Cauldron based army. I have personally never tried a Cauldron army that does not utilize MSU principles, so I cannot say if it is mandatory or not, but I am fairly sure that it is the best approach. Because MSU lends itself well to a larger amount of your troops actually fighting in any given combat, the Cauldron’s already formidable powers are compounded by allowing you even more failed wound re-rolls and thus chances to win combats. In addition, MSU priced units, which are generally cheap, can help you more easily bare the burden of the Cauldron’s cost. Lastly, MSU offers more threats to your opponent at any given time, and when these threats reside within the RFZ, your opponent will treat each of these threats with more respect, thus causing hesitation and hopefully mistakes. If you are unfamiliar with MSU style tactics, I suggest you browse the Druchii.net Tactics Forum for more details, as they are beyond the scope of this article.

Speed is an asset that is useful for all armies, but especially an army using the Cauldron of Blood. As a Cauldron-army is all about capitalizing on opportunities and attacking with as many units as possible, you will want fast, manoeuvrable forces. These forces can quickly redeploy where they are needed and, more importantly, can more easily lend supporting charges to combats and, with the help of the Cauldron, tip the scales of a tight combat in your favour. This concept is really not much different from how any fast army would work, but it is worth noting that it is more lethal because of the RFZ.

Another important element of using a successful Cauldron based army is a suitable war machine and mage hunting force . As both of these weapons can allow your opponent to avoid your RFZ while shooting at your army, you will need to destroy them quickly. The usual choices for this role are still good in this situation. I find that 5-strong Dark Rider units with musicians, Harpies, and Dark Pegasus riding characters are best for this role. Shades are normally a good choice for this as well, but relative to these other units they lack speed, which as I have mentioned above, is a very important element for Cauldron armies to possess. By pressuring your opponent with multiple threats simultaneously hunting his ranged weapons, you will most likely neutralize the majority of them. The key is to have as many units as possible ready to charge as many different targets as possible, thus leaving your opponent with no way of saving everything.

For magical defence , I find that two Dispel Scrolls and the Seal of Ghrond provide a good base from which to work. From there, using “active” magical defence such as mage hunting, Dark Rider suicide charges, and the Ring of Hotek, are all useful in helping to aggressively attack your opponent’s magic, as well as utilizing the Cauldron’s strengths. In my current 2000-point Cauldron list, I use three units of five Dark Riders, a unit of five Harpies, and a Noble on a Dark Pegasus with a Repeater Crossbow and the Ring of Hotek to hunt enemy mages and war machines. All of these units can then be used to mop up the remaining enemy using their speed as I have described above. I will concede, however, that magical defence is a very personal thing and you should adjust your army composition to deal with magic as you see fit.

Choosing the appropriate amount of missile and magic support is, in my experience, the most difficult aspect of designing a Cauldron based army. Ranged attacks are important to a Cauldron army, as you will need some means of killing enemy fast cavalry and fliers, as well as a means to pressure your enemy if he sits back and avoids fighting you in your RFZ. In contrast, by investing too many points into ranged attacks, you will dilute your army its close combat capability and rob your army of being able to utilize the Cauldron in an effective manner. I have found that the best overall option for missile support in the army is a unit of 10-15 Dark Elf Warriors armed with shields and repeater crossbows. They are very good at eliminating the fast elements that most often will be threatening the Cauldron. They can be formed into ranks to counter charge units fighting the Cauldron, and are such a versatile unit that if you find they are not needed for protecting the Cauldron, can easily be directed to other tasks supporting your army. Beyond one or two units like this, you could consider using a Reaper Bolt Thrower or two, although I have found that they do not really do much more that the Warrior unit mentioned above can. In the future, I plan to try to incorporate a single RBT to see how effective it can be. The point I am trying to stress is that you should consider the selection of your missile support very carefully, as there is a fine line between efficiency and excessiveness, especially in a Cauldron of Blood army list.

As to magic, I personally do not like to use it in Cauldron themed armies because I feel it is out of theme. For those not concerned with such things, magic can aid a Cauldron force tremendously. The single best spell to hope for is the Dark Magic spell Word of Pain, as it will further accentuate your close combat advantages in the RFZ. In addition, all of the magic missile spells in all of the available lores can be useful to add to your ranged attack capabilities and better help to protect your Cauldron, especially Chillwind as it can simultaneously reduce the potency of enemy missile fire. Beyond this, magic will play the normal role it does for the Dark Elf army. As with MSU, that topic is beyond the scope of this discussion.

Finally, it is worth noting that a successful Cauldron of Blood army should be played aggressively . It should quickly and ruthlessly attack the best possible targets with maximum force and eliminate them. By taking the initiative, combined with the aid the RFZ gives you both in actual combat ability and distress to your opponent, you can dictate the flow of the battle and force your opponent to make mistakes. Even against opponents that will most likely be attacking you, such as Chaos and Vampire Counts, you should be aggressive. Please keep in mind that “aggressive” and “mindless charge” are not the same thing. Be patient with aggressive opponents, force mistakes on them, and then counter attack with deadly effect.

Nasty Combos
The purpose of this section is to briefly describe some especially effective, sinister, and nasty unit/item combinations that work well with the Cauldron of Blood. I would love to hear more ideas you may have, so if you have any, please email them to me (my contact information will be at the end of the article).

- An Assassin with the Blade of Ruin. This model will be very vicious against heavy cavalry on the charge. Just pop it out when charged and enjoy yourself.

- An Assassin with Touch of Death. I would like to thank Asger for this one. Below are the chances for scoring a successful Killing Blow with the Assassin:
Against a Toughness 5 Enemy: 75%
Against a Toughness 4 Enemy: 66.67%
Against a Toughness 3 Enemy: 59.26%

- The Black Guards. This unit will be re-rolling all hits and all wounds in the first round of combat. Add to that its amazing staying power and further "to hit" re-rolls in subsequent rounds, and you have a really nasty unit on your hands.

- The Cold One Chariots. I cannot stress how evil Chariots are when used with the Cauldron of Blood. Re-rolling strength 5 Impact Hits is simply brutal. I have seen the effects of how devastating this is first hand.

- Web of Shadows. I would like to thank langmann for this idea. This neat little item becomes much, much scarier within the Cauldron's RFZ. You could easily take down any low armoured character or monster in the game with this. At the very least, you will soften it up quite nicely.

FAQ:

Q: How do I get the enemy to come to me to use the Cauldron its RFZ properly?
A: I suggest you not worry to much whether your opponent sits back outside your RFZ or not. Too many people are caught up in the powers of the RFZ that they become unwilling to fight outside of it. Most opponents will simply not be able to completely avoid combat within the RFZ, and those that do will be overloaded with magic and shooting, and thus your (hopefully) close combat oriented army will be able to defeat them even without the RFZ. Just trust in your fast elements to keep the heat off your close combat capabilities for the first 2-3 turns, at which point you will be ready to engage your enemy, even if he was a coward and hugged his deployment zone to avoid the RFZ.

Q: How do I best protect the Cauldron?
A: There are a number of things you can do which will protect the Cauldron. Anchoring it with terrain on one or more sides, guarding it with a small unit of Dark Elf Warriors (ideally repeater crossbow Warriors), minimizing enemy frontage against your Witch Elf guardians when they are charged, and if you are really worried, taking a Temple of Khaine ability such as Manbane or the Hand of Khaine (-1 enemy attack) will all help to protect it. This, of course, is in addition to the Cauldron its Terror and the 6+ Ward Save of the Witch Elves themselves. I have only ever lost my Cauldron once in a game, and I have found that the Witch Elf crew can survive for at least one turn, at which point a reserve unit can lend a supporting charge and thus break the enemy threatening them. The key here is to anticipate your opponent his charges against the Cauldron, and prepare a support unit to counter-charge the following turn. The 10-man repeater crossbow Warrior unit armed with shields is ideal for this, because it can offer missile support while guarding the Cauldron from attack. If you are especially worried about the enemy breaking through and assaulting your Cauldron, you can even add a standard

and musician to your Warrior unit for added Combat Resolution bonuses. I have not seen the need to do this, but for a mere 15 points, it is not out of the question. Another tactic to consider against enemy fliers is screening the Cauldron with a unit of Harpies or Shades so that the enemy cannot gain line of sight for a charge. Because the Cauldron is not a large target, this can easily be done. The most important thing is to remember that the Cauldron of Blood will be charged sometimes, and that you should be on the lookout for this. Anticipate enemy attacks to minimize the damage that they cause, and be ready to counter-attack with your reseves or faster elements.

Q: If only a part of a Dark Elf unit is within the RFZ, does the whole unit benefit for that combat?
A: Yes. Even if only 1 base of 1 model from the unit is in range, then the whole unit is affected by the Cauldron of Blood.

Q: What should I do if my Cauldron of Blood is destroyed?
A: If you are unfortunate enough to lose your Cauldron of Blood, your only hope of redemption in Khaine’s eyes, is to slaughter your enemy wholesale. Seriously, I would not worry too much about the loss. It is only 205 points, and although it is a nice benefit to your forces, they still can fight and win combats without it. Your army should be taking advantage of the Cauldron its powers, not relying on them.

Sample Army Lists

Grogsnot's 2000pt Cauldron of Blood Army

General – Noble with Lance, Shield, Heavy Armour; Sea Dragon Cloak, Seal of Ghrond and rides a Dark Steed
Noble – Lance, Enchanted Shield, Heavy Armour, Sea Dragon Cloak, Ring of Hotek, Repeater Crossbow, and Rides a Dark Pegasus
Sorceress – Magic Level 1, Two Dispel Scrolls
Assassin – Additional Hand Weapon and Touch of Death

5 Dark Riders with Musician
5 Dark Riders with Musician
5 Dark Riders with Musician
12 Warriors with Shields
12 Warriors with Shields
16 Warriors with Shields, Standard and Musician
12 Witch Elves with Standard, Musician, Hag and Manbane
5 Cold One Knights with Musician
5 Cold One Knights with Musician
5 Harpies
Cauldron of Blood


Dark Alliance's 2000 point Cauldron of Blood Army

General – Noble, Armour of Darkness, Sword of Might
Noble – Heavy Armour, Sea Dragon Cloak, Crimson Death, Rides a Dark Steed
Sorceress – Level 2, Dispel Scroll, Seal of Ghrond, Rides a Dark Steed

10 Repeater Crossbow-armed Elves with shields and musician
10 Warriors with shields
10 Warriors with shields
5 Shades
12 Witch Elves with full command and Manbane
11 Executioners with full command and War Banner ( for the General )
10 Executioners with full command
10 Corsairs with champion
5 Dark Riders with musician and Repeater Crossbows ( for the Sorceress )
5 Dark Riders with musician, standard and Repeater Crossbows ( for the Noble )
Cauldron of Blood
1 Reaper Bolt Thrower

Asger's Cauldron of Blood Army

Noble – Seal of Ghrond, Heavy Armour, Shield, Sea Dragon Cloak, Lance and rides a Dark Steed
Sorceress – Level 1 and Two Dispel scrolls
Noble – Battle Standard Bearer, Hydra Banner, Heavy Armour, Sea Dragon Cloak and rides a Dark Steed

5 Dark Riders with Musician and Repeater Crossbows
5 Dark Riders with Musician and Repeater Crossbows
5 Dark Riders with Musician
5 Dark Riders with Musician
10 Warriors with Musician and Shields
10 Corsairs with Musician
10 Witch Elves with Musician
10 Witch Elves with Musician
10 Harpies
6 Cold one Knights with Full command
10 Black Guards with Musician
Cauldron of Blood


Hopefully you have found this article informative. My primary goal was to have more people give this much-underappreciated rare choice more consideration in their own army lists, and thus bring more converts to the worship of Khaine. At the very least, I hope that the Cauldron of Blood does not look “useless” to you now, even if it does not fit into your own theme, tactics, or army list. I would like to thank the Druchii.net community, and especially the tactics gurus who are always helping us to stay positive, try new ideas, and improve each other’s game. I would like to specifically thank, in no particular order, Vorchild, Dark Alliance, langmann, Linda, The Word of Pain, Ash, Drakken, Icon Hack, Asger, Lord Nagathi and Surelian for their help in proofreading and offering additional ideas to this article. I would also like to give a special thanks to Kitrik and Nightblood for running such an amazing website. Praise be to Khaine, and may his bloody dagger always be at your enemies’ backs.


Fri Jan 11, 2008 12:32 pm
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The Exiled One
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Yes, that article originated from this site. It can be found here: http://www.druchii.net/tok/tok_cob.html
(I recall editing that article by Grogsnot a long time ago)

Going with a Cauldron seems to fit the MSU style very well. The more attacks we get, the better we maximise the Cauldron's powers.

~ Nag

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Fri Jan 11, 2008 6:01 pm
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Oh god....I remember when that article came up for review in the old ToK. Thank you for reminding me just how long I've been here......oh god.

Even funnier....the article doesn't even need an update to 7th Edition, since the same principles all still apply.

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Sat Jan 12, 2008 3:52 am
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I know everyone says that using a Cauldron against a gunline is a bad idea, but what tactics have you found useful when you were stuck playing a gunline such as skaven, like in a tournament setting?


Sat Jan 12, 2008 4:10 am
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Still place it far foward, but not necessarily centrally. Try to get some terrain so only a WLC can fire at it without movnig, then focus your attack on his line on that side of the table. Exploit terrain and the knowledge that he doesn't want to pick fights in RFZ, so it'll give you a zone of threat...a real big one. There is no real change in using it against a gunline vs. a normal list, except you know that he has a bit better chance to avoid that implied threat zone. Its still board control....just different that most people view it.

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Sat Jan 12, 2008 5:35 am
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Drakken wrote:
Oh god....I remember when that article came up for review in the old ToK. Thank you for reminding me just how long I've been here......oh god.
You and me both, Drakken. You're only four days older than I am :)
And looking through the Monthly pages, damn I was a poor webdesigner at the time :)

~ Nag

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Sat Jan 12, 2008 5:54 pm
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Malekith's Best Friend
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A good summary. Though the 'nasty combo section' should really make mention of the Venom Sword :)

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Equipment: bastard sword of Speed, shield of Defence, repeater (20/20), spear, mace, dagger, Armour of Night, SDC, whip, blowpipe (9/12)
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Sun Jan 13, 2008 2:22 am
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Beastmaster
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Joined: Thu Apr 19, 2007 7:54 pm
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Location: Genk - Belgium
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I never used a cauldron.
I've learned some interesting things and uses for it from the article above. But I stick to my "garbage" point of vieuw.
I find 205 points to expensive and easy vicory points for the guy at the other side of the table.
And taking a cauldron along means 205 points less army to deal with for your opponent.

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Sun Jan 13, 2008 12:01 pm
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Lord of the Venom Sword
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Joined: Mon May 09, 2005 12:58 pm
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Location: London
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Raneth wrote:
A good summary. Though the 'nasty combo section' should really make mention of the Venom Sword :)

I'll second that :D . IMO if you take a venom sword, you NEED a CoB.

Something that has yet to be mentioned however is the use of flyers (peg riders, mantis and dragons), and to some extent DRs as an additional or alternative way of getting the more static armies to come to you. With a bit of practice you can use the threat potential of these fast hard hitting units to "herd" the enemy towards your lines. This works even better if the rest of your army hangs back a bit in the first turn or two, in order to give the enemy some "free space" to move into where he isn't in danger of being charged.

Personally I love the cauldron. But I agree that it is overpriced, and you do have to build an army around it. But once you have the army designed it is great fun!

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Ash010110 wrote:
I completely agree with Ant (Reynolds, I presume?).

(Please note, I am NOT Anthony Reynolds)


Sun Jan 13, 2008 2:21 pm
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Joined: Mon May 22, 2006 2:13 am
Posts: 518
Post 
Like many have said before, the cauldron does require that your list be built around it. You have to maximise its potential while at the same time give the enemy a reason to come into the red fury zone. Its a careful balance that must be achieved and the only way to do it is lots of practice.

Once you get it down though the Cauldron turns our cunning dark elves into pure bloodthirsty killers. My regular gaming group has come to fear the cauldron and either takes extreme measures to get rid of it or ignore it completely and stay out of the RFZ.

And contrary to what other people have said it actually is quite resistant to shooting. After the randomising and the ward save against average BS3 S3 shooting only 1 in about 21 shots will actually cause a wound. Against better troops of course it goes down but the cauldron stand up to fire fairly well. And after a turn or two of inneffectual shooting like that why would they continue when they can shoot much more pressing targets.

Overall I love the cauldron and seldom leave home without it. While costly at over 200 points it improves the army in a way that can't be explained until you see it for yourself.


Thu Jan 17, 2008 11:51 pm
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